Vanya's Turbo SE blog

[Escape]

Yep, that shows your battle with the hub carrier. And a baby prancing pony. Or would that be a prancing foal? 😄

[tomcattom]

On 01/03/2021 at 10:11, Vanya said:

Hmmm damn google photos. Doesn't seem to be an option to make the pics public. 

Lets see, does this link work:

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPbzOsTq9Yg1tqtIf_itVwYaHEd1lGOgIjJcSlkLFDf5LMC0nnMRH5--vTBYVGmPg?key=NVlhMmpKWHJ6RnZJNTgybXBnUWgtcWZWYTBjRUtR

I can't see the photos I found the links from Google stopped working reliably for me sometime last autumn. Not sure if there was a change on the forum software or on Google's end. I now have to save my photos from Google to my laptop and then upload them to the post. I have to resize the photos before I upload too because more than one photo exceeds the max attachment size on the post.

[snowrx]

Google link worked for me. Good pics, I hope to avoid that job for awhile...

[Vanya]

And we are back in business! Moving in to a villa (and buying cheap and crappy Alfas) has brought with it all kinds of distractions, so it's taken a while to get round to finishing the tast of rear suspension refurbishment but yesterday, after much wrangling with the re assembly of the heat shields above the LHS engine mount, the car was back together (I swear that job itself is worse than 2 seized links).

So now the Esprit is back on its wheels and..well would you look at that, no longer leaning!

Naturally however these projects don't always work out without some difficulty somewhere. It was generally speaking smooth sailing except for the fact I now have play at the rear wheels, both sides, at the 12 and 6 position. The bearings and bushings are all new. Am I missing something here guys?

 

[Escape]

Looking nice, be it a bit dusty. 😉

If you have play at 12 and 6, that points to a problem (play) with either the top or bottom links. I'm sure you checked if everything is properly tightened? Ideally have a mate wiggle the wheel while you look for the source of the play. If it's very little, you might not be able to see it, but feel it nevertheless by putting your hand on the linkage (everywhere there could be play). It's strange you have it at both wheels, it could be something to do with the install or fit of the new parts rather than a single defective part.

Filip

[Sparky]

Hello mate, been a while!

I'm with Filip if it's just 12 and 6, but that's really strange.  Fully torqued?  No 3 and 9 at all? If so, maybe bearings not seated, but again, strange.

[Vanya]

5 hours ago, Escape said:

Looking nice, be it a bit dusty. 😉

If you have play at 12 and 6, that points to a problem (play) with either the top or bottom links. I'm sure you checked if everything is properly tightened? Ideally have a mate wiggle the wheel while you look for the source of the play. If it's very little, you might not be able to see it, but feel it nevertheless by putting your hand on the linkage (everywhere there could be play). It's strange you have it at both wheels, it could be something to do with the install or fit of the new parts rather than a single defective part.

Filip

Yeah I thought this might be it, but then we put the car on its wheels and torqued links to hub, links to chassis and radius arm to chassis all at ride height. Play persisted. Have I deformed the bearings somehow?

3 hours ago, Sparky said:

Hello mate, been a while!

I'm with Filip if it's just 12 and 6, but that's really strange.  Fully torqued?  No 3 and 9 at all? If so, maybe bearings not seated, but again, strange.

It has been a while indeed! Hope you're in good health!!! I feel bad for spending so much time away from this place

As for the play; I know, it's weird right? No play 9 and 3, at all. 

Is there a trick to installing the rear bearings on Stevens Esprits when new? I gently pressed the one half onto the hub spigot in the press and stopped when it had bottomed out. Screwed the other half into the hub carrier with the torx bolts (it fit into its recess without any persuasion required. "Cable tied" the hub part to the hub carrier so it wouldn't fall off in transit to the garage, and then fitted the lot onto the drive shaft and torqued up the nut.

I can have a look tomorrow where the play is but I'm 99% sure its from the hub. It would be VERY odd if it were from the links as those parts are brand new and tight AF to fit. Maybe the two bolts holding the radius arm to the hub carrier need extra torquing up when everything is in place?

Typical that this weird stuff always happens to me!

[Escape]

I'd expect play in the bearings to be all around, or at least move when the wheel is turned. Have you tried removing the brake pads when checking the play? The way the calipers are positioned means they will mask any play 3 to 9. Having someone apply the brakes (pads reinstalled of course) and check for differences can also help to eliminate play in the bearings.

If it is indeed the bearing, you should be able to feel the play between the disc and the top of the hub carrier. I have no idea what could cause that though, especially with new bearings... Unless somehow the carriers got deformed in the process and the bearing is no longer a tight fit? I remember the rear bearings being very easy to fit, but then I'm used to fighting Land Rover bearings that often deform our 20ton press before popping out...

Filip

[Sparky]

Vanya, are you saying you pressed only the inner race half onto the hub first, then torqued it all down using the hub nut?  If that's the case, I can only imagine the bearing hasn't fully bedded.  I always press the entire bearing onto the spigot.  As Filip says, remove pads, and I suspect you're going to find 360deg of play.

[Escape]

I missed that part. You should press the entire bearing assembly onto the hub. It needs to be a tight fit, maybe you didn't get it seated completely with the driveshaft nut, as Gary says. If it really was that easy to fit, that would also explain some play under load.

[Vanya]

24 minutes ago, Escape said:

I missed that part. You should press the entire bearing assembly onto the hub. It needs to be a tight fit, maybe you didn't get it seated completely with the driveshaft nut, as Gary says. If it really was that easy to fit, that would also explain some play under load.

Yeah I felt SO stupid when I re-read the manual and saw that...why on earth didn't I press the assembly together, instead pressing only one half.

That said, you'd think 270 Nm or so would bed it in properly.... 

How much force do you guys use when fitting these with a press? I probably would have stopped when feeling resistance (if the halves were together) so as to not damage anything. That's usually how I fit bearings anyway; they slide onto the spigot smoothly.

1 hour ago, Sparky said:

Vanya, are you saying you pressed only the inner race half onto the hub first, then torqued it all down using the hub nut?  If that's the case, I can only imagine the bearing hasn't fully bedded.  I always press the entire bearing onto the spigot.  As Filip says, remove pads, and I suspect you're going to find 360deg of play.

Will do this afternoon!

Thanks for the help guys!

[Escape]

Normally, when using a press for bearings there is a sudden increase in force as the bearings settles. Easily felt on a manual press, on a powered one you'd need to watch the pressure gauge. As said, the Esprit bearings all went smoothly. But that doesn't mean that's the case on every car, so maybe yours need a bit more. The 270Nm isn't meant so seat the bearing, just to secure everything, lots of forces acting on the assembly, with a press you're pushing directly on the bearing.  

Look on the bright side, if this is the problem, it's easy enough to rectify. 

Filip

[Vanya]

7 hours ago, Escape said:

 

Put the bearings in the press and the play is in the bearing. Even after 5 tons of force is applied there's still play. I'm so sick of these counterfeit aftermarket parts. Lose so much time and money. This happened to me when I bought front wheel bearings from the same specialist, had to grind them off because the tolerances were off and fit an SKF bearing instead. Unfortunately genuine rears are unobtainable from Lotus. Aaaarghh. FFS...

Attaching pic of the bearing below. Pure garbage. 

[Vanya]

Update, luckily there's a lot of cross references for these bearings, and SKF VKBA971 seems to be a match. I dunno the hierarchy of bearing quality but SKF is right up there and has worked for me in other applications. I'll try and source some and report on fitment. 

[Sparky]

SKF, yes!

[Escape]

SKF or Timken every time, given the choice.

I do feel bad for you, all that hard work to be let down by the quality of the parts. What supplier did you get them from? I got mine from SJ and those were fine. That was many years ago though, no need yet to do the bearings on my current Esprit (touching wood...).

There are some bearings that need the shaft tightened to remove all play, but those are the conical type. These are ball bearings if I remember correctly, so should always be tight.

[Vanya]

10 hours ago, Escape said:

SKF or Timken every time, given the choice.

I do feel bad for you, all that hard work to be let down by the quality of the parts. What supplier did you get them from? I got mine from SJ and those were fine. That was many years ago though, no need yet to do the bearings on my current Esprit (touching wood...).

There are some bearings that need the shaft tightened to remove all play, but those are the conical type. These are ball bearings if I remember correctly, so should always be tight.

Hi,

I got these from SJ, but Paul Matty are stocking these as well (called their parts department yesterday and confirmed). I'll give SKF a shot if I can find them readily. 

I am generally not opposed to alternative sources for parts but when it comes to bearings I believe I've learned over the years that you really don't want to skimp on quality, if given a choice. Of course this makes it difficult to do beforehand because you need to know the dimensions - and removing the old bearing non-destructively is impossible I think? Anyway I am looking forward to pulling my weight and contributing with a decent xref for the community. 

Thanks for the help guys! 

[Vanya]

Quick update:

I found an original part on eBay and enhanced the image. I could just about make out that the bearing is SNR - doing some digging I found a kit for a Renault Fuego or Espace (commonly known as an xref). Kit is R155.11 and contains the bearing TGB.10872.S02 - the latter of which I can just about make out on the eBay pic. Hopefully this will help someone out there. 

 

edit: aaaaand here's the final proof! Dug out my old bearing from the trash. 

[Vanya]

Home at last. 

I'm pleased to say that the new bearings have zero play in them. Well worth the expense. 

Now time for a geo check. 

 

[Vanya]

In its natural element. 

 

[Vanya]

Well today at long last, after 9 years, I finally fitted original spec rear dampers to my SE, big shout to to SJ Sports Cars for having these remanufactured.

The difference now that I am running OG bushes, shocks and springs all round is night and day. The GAZ dampers I had in the rear had literally no rebound compared to the old Lotus spec, which left me with a bouncy rear (I was also using the SE spring raye with the adjustables vs the supplied 250 lb S4 springs, which made matters worse). Anyways for those wanting the original stuff so they don't have to sell their organs for the ever more expensive LOTAC setup, stuff is again available.