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original 'silver' Giugiaro


mayevora

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Kimbers. Not really getting any definative answers from sent emails as yet. I know MJK has alot going on a present, but in an opertune moment when he is back from his travels, can you mention this subject and see what his last dealings with the car were and if he can remember what happened when Lotus finished with the car.

Thanks

Edited by mayesprit

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I spoke to MJK today and he is quiet sure that he saw it in GG's place in Torino a year or two ago. I'll make some calls to Italy tomorrow :animier:

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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I spoke to MJK today and he is quiet sure that he saw it in GG's place in Torino a year or two ago. I'll make some calls to Italy tomorrow :animier:

:popo: Nice one Bibs - sounds like the best lead to date. Fingers crossed

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk - that will teach us to keep mouth shut!

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Erm, anyone speak Italian? :animier:

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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No i dont but I have a good friend who does

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Erm, anyone speak Italian? :)

someone taught me some years ago to say " you have a beautiful f***y" but I dont think it will do you any good...

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Sorry to tell you this Dan, but thats not an Esprit prototype. :(

Its the Audi Karmann Asso di Picche that Ital Design did in 1973.

Hi,

I am the author of the Lotus Esprit section of the Club Lotus France website, and would like to apologize for mixing up the pictures of the Esprit prototype mockup with the pictures of the Audi Karman (see post #24). Just to help forgiving me, let me share with you a few pictures.

As far as I understand, Giugiaro links with Chapman started as early as Geneva show in march 1971 (as stated in Jeremy Walton

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Interesting stuff JP

I have a couple of questions.

You mention

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I went to Ital Design (among other design houses) some years ago as a guest of Fiat and took lots of photos while I was there - I'll dig the prints out but I don't remember seeing it there, of course it might've been on loan to another museum/show/whatever - I'll let you know.

Can't remember why but I've been under the impression for some while now that it's owned by a collector in New York(?) - anyway good luck with the hunt!

Forum: n. fo

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Bugger , just re-read the thread, WayneB already mentioned this motor. So apologies for that. but found another pic of the silver prototype.

http://www.fotosdecarros.com/showphoto.php/photo/3087

From the pen of Giugiaro, this maserati prototype, called 124 is very similar

P13.jpg

An unnamed Maserati Coup

Edited by Alex --GT3--
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Hi,

I am the author of the Lotus Esprit section of the Club Lotus France website,

GG was eager to work with Lotus as he never did a GRP car before, and wanted to gain experience of such cars with a company well known for its long experience in that area. After working on the drawing board (many sketches of the Esprit have been shown already, here is another one), they started to built the first mockup.

My understanding is that the plaster model of the (future) Esprit was made by the end of the 1971 year. This plaster model has been used to gain approval from Chapman to go with a rolling prototype. This occurred at the 1972 Geneva show, ACBC agreed to send to GG a chassis to fit the future prototype. This first

SUNP0003-1.jpg
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Bibs is right guys, dad reckons it's at Guigaro's place. He said he was looking over it a couple of years ago. But I suppose it could be the second one...or third......didn't one get scrapped?

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[diddn't one get scrapped?]

You are probably the best person to get that answer Tony. (sorry mate - more questions))

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk - that will teach us to keep mouth shut!

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Bibs is right guys, dad reckons it's at Guigaro's place. He said he was looking over it a couple of years ago. But I suppose it could be the second one...or third......didn't one get scrapped?

err Tony why are you asking us? :(

Good luck with calling up ItalDesign :cry:

I had occasion to have some dealings with some Italian fellows who couldnt speak English last year, it was quite the ordeal!

BTW I thought you could speak Itallian, didnt you live there when MJK was running Lamborghini? :(

SUNP0003-1.jpg
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Kimbers italian skills are limited to 'nice ass luv' and other choice phrases. :P

ItalDesign are on +39 011 689 1611 and we need to speak to the PR dept, who don't speaka da English. Anyone, please?

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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. . . dad reckons it's at Guigaro's place. He said he was looking over it a couple of years ago.

Good to know it it might still be around then.

Tony Rudd described the Silver Car's chassis as a "diabolical cut and shut Europa chassis. It was wider and longer . . ."

Lotus_Esprit_Silver_Car_2.jpg

Lotus_Esprit_Silver_Car_3.jpg

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As for the original 1972 Esprit showcar being made of fibreglass, I dont think that is true either!

I believe that the photo of the "styling model" you posted was actually the wooden buck that the showcars aluminium panels were hammered and formed over. If you look closely at the photos of the silver showcar, you will notice that it used Alfa-Romeo Giulia GT doorhandles, which could never be made to fit on to a thicker glassfibre panel. The Italian styling houses were incredably adept at making aluminium and steel bodied showcars quickly and cheaply.

Hi WayneB,

I understand your point.

The fact is, what you say was what I believed and what is printed in many Lotus Esprit books. But the article in March 1973 issue of Road & Track is fairly positive about the body being in fiberglass on the Turin show car, and was written after an interview with GG. Here is an extract of the article:

"Perfect workmanship is to be expected in a show car, especially one from Ital Design, but a lot of people at Turin were surprised and impressed at the quality and detailing done with the fiberglass. Most people assumed that the precise body panels were of aluminum or steel, not a mistake many make when loking at other fiberglass bodies (including Lotus's). And Chapman was one of those impressed. Giugiaro says that in theory, it is harder to control tolerances with fiberglass than with metal, but that in reality - given today's advanced techniques - fiberglass can be just as accurate as metal..."

Now I am lost a bit. I do have another color picture taken inside GG's premises before Turin that shows the prototype's body, sitting aside the chassis. On this picture, it really looks like an unpainted bare aluminum body ! Maybe they did first an aluminum body, but decided to make a GRP one for the show, just to proove it was feasible ?

Now it is even more important to retrieve were is this bloody prototype, so we can knock on the body just to figure out what it is made of !

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Kimbers italian skills are limited to 'nice ass luv' and other choice phrases. :P

ItalDesign are on +39 011 689 1611 and we need to speak to the PR dept, who don't speaka da English. Anyone, please?

Bibs

I have a friend who speaks fluent Italian and she will be at my house tomorrow.

If no one else can "speak da lingo" then she has offered to talk to them but has asked for a list of questions that you want answered.

Let me know if you want me to get her to talk to them.

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As you pointed out, the Paris show car (the picture with the big signs showing ITAL DESIGN) is a pre-production S1 which looks pretty close to the final S1. I can't remember its colour (silver or white) ? I remember having seen another picture from the show, and I think it was silver, but I'm not sure. I'll pass the word on the french Lotus forum and let you know if I get more details.

Yes, the silver car was shown at the Paris Motor show on 2nd November 1974 and was a pre-production none runner. Lotus aimed to get the Esprit running by Christmas 1974, but the first running Esprit was driven on 12th January 1975 at Heathrow.

Also, Jeremy Walton describes the 1971 Silver show car as metal.

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Yes, the silver car was shown at the Paris Motor show on 2nd November 1974 and was a pre-production none runner. Lotus aimed to get the Esprit running by Christmas 1974, but the first running Esprit was driven on 12th January 1975 at Heathrow.

The Esprit was shown at Paris show on October 2nd 1975, not in 1974. You're right about the first running Esprit driven by ACBC in January 75, when he was back from the Argentinian GP, but it was far from being the production model yet ! The first deliveries of the Esprit occured early 1976.

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Bibs

I have a friend who speaks fluent Italian and she will be at my house tomorrow.

If no one else can "speak da lingo" then she has offered to talk to them but has asked for a list of questions that you want answered.

Let me know if you want me to get her to talk to them.

I think that could be a big YES PLEASE Gordon.

First and formost we are trying to find out if the car still exists, and is it at Ital. (emailed them the day after I posted this thread - to no avail yet) If yes, brilliant news. Anything else would be a bonus at this stage, ie Is it available for public viewing, and could any up to date pics be taken and made available to any interested parties.

If the 'silver' car is not at Ital, would they know any information as to the last know location of the car. They may not be able to answer/not want to answer that Q, but worth asking all the same. Ian

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk - that will teach us to keep mouth shut!

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