Front Caliper Kit 350 ?

[esp88]

Hi folks

I just wonder the " Front Caliper Kit 350 sport pair" can fit in my Epsrt Turbo 1988 ?

Does anybody bought these kit in Jan sales ?

if so, what's include this Caliper Kit ?

I think AP racing Caliper ! Is this kit incl. disks, pads and brackets ?

I use 17inc. 5 spork S4 type wheels but any differece e.g. wheels hubs

Y.Hotta

[DBredS4]

probably with enough hammering...

[Jonathan]

I 'think' it will.

I got a set for my SE - includes pads, brackets and calipers, bolts etc.

The part it bolts onto (the upright) is the same part # but I don't have the info of when that part # changed.

[Kato]

We heard they came with pads and brackets. You'll need new hubs and disc for the kit as you're current set-up, if standard, will have the discs on the back of the hubs, not the front.

So to fit this kit with the least amount of hassle, you'll need V8 hubs, and replacement discs.

As for the wheels fitting. We've not heard of any Sport 350 or Late V8's running on S4 Wheels. So can't guarantee they'll fit. But V8's all run on 17s, so shouldn't be too far off.

[Jonathan]

Yeah sort of missed the obvious really...

The front hub is generic from 1994 onwards (late S4, S4s, GT3, V8)

The killer here is a disk cost, they're made for a 320x32 disk which is much bigger than even the brembo setup.

The work around is the PUK / R&B AP disks at about eu1000 or get your own made / fitted.

I'm still working on the CAD for the brakes however I do know the specs for the AP disk + bell setup which AP kindly supplied to me.

You also might wanna try doing something for the rear.

[esp88]

Yeah sort of missed the obvious really...

The front hub is generic from 1994 onwards (late S4, S4s, GT3, V8)

The killer here is a disk cost, they're made for a 320x32 disk which is much bigger than even the brembo setup.

The work around is the PUK / R&B AP disks at about eu1000 or get your own made / fitted.

I'm still working on the CAD for the brakes however I do know the specs for the AP disk + bell setup which AP kindly supplied to me.

You also might wanna try doing something for the rear.

Thanks folks

Ok the kit incl. Caliper, pads and brackets but not incl. bells and disks

That means it will mabye

[Kato]

You really want the V8 set-up on the rears to balance it out a little. The Esprit does very little braking on the rears, but the upgrade from the standard set-up to AP's is a big one.

http://www.lotusespritworld.com/EGuides/EM..._brake_kit.html

[Jonathan]

means it will mabye

[esp88]

Thanks for the comments

Well, it's not easy to decide, but the reason I asked was the kit

is in sales for

[Jonathan]

One more question, Any one know what differece blue and black ?

From what I have been told from Lotus, one is blue, t'other is black

Seriously, Lotus had the S350 ones made in blue and the rest were normal for the 2002+ V8.

The caliper is the CP5200 - http://www.apracing.com/roadcar/caliper/da...p?family=CP5200

2 calipers, mounts and pads at this spec for

[pitstoppete]

the bias seems well forgotten about by almost everyone. a huge shiny kit of bits is usually enough to cloud the judgement and get the cheque book out.

if, and indeed, when anyone bothers doing any calcs for all the various combinations of set ups, u will find any mods to the front brakes render the rear axle underbraked, unless u mod the rears to suit. a huge AP or anybodys 4 pots/6 pots that might look nice coz there pointlessly drilled/grooved or look like the dogs b0ll0x etc conversion, needs fitting with the proviso that the rears will get some thought too. sometimes just a different pad material may suffice, but in real terms, the material should stay the same f/r its said.

for the AP or even brembo calipers (closely comparable to a 57mm std SE caliper piston) on a SP350 style 320-325 mm disc at the front, u will need the brembo late rears, or in fact the std SE renault cack calipers if u must on 320 ish discs to maintain the balance. the weight/mass distribution is actually quite even on the old esprit and the idea of maintaning some balance in the brakes is not an new one. the difference in f/r piston sizes/effective radii and equal pad material equate to 2.2 ish to 1 ratio f/r, depending on model. have all the calcs.

crap brakes? unsieze them to start with, change the fluid, sort the hoses.

the first thing to try is a some discs with some reasonable name to them, as u gets what u pays for heat treatment wise. pads, not some real funny eco coloured crappy pad material, some that actually gives off some dust. at both ends. FF grade or maybe better for starters. friction co-eff as good as or better than std, like lotus put in an S4 or elise. lose the std single piston calipers that are probably well siezed up anyways. they splay out badly when applied.

if and when u go for some 2000

Edited February 4, 2007 by pitstoppete

[Jonathan]

Inc tyres

[esp88]

Thanks Jonathan & Pitstoppet

I know it's not easy just replaceing the other cailpier etc...

the bias issue I'm thinking but not enough knowage !

Also master clynder may need to change ?

I already thinking to changing the rear, the one reason is e.g espceally winter time frozen handbreak and could not move !

and soon need new disks !

I should start with rear ! ( I already using Hi-spec caliper which I bought it last year from PMN at the Donnington !)

Jonathan where did you get used Brembo calipber ?

[Jonathan]

I got my calipers from a breakers, scour the lands for busted Elises, thats where you'll find them as well.

You can carry on debating this to the Nth degree about the master cylinder etc etc

IMO if you go for the AP front you need the Brembo rear calipers and the brembo disks, pref with a good pad. This is the setup I am going to try, I would then be looking at trying to get a bigger rear disk in place as well to complement the front.

All you gotta remember is extra forward bias will do the following :

-------------------------------------

Wear your front tyres down more as they are working harder during braking

Reduce you're braking distance slightly as the fronts are doing more of the work compared to the rear and will reach lock quicker.

Introduce oversteer when braking into a corner.

Brakes are very much like suspension in that it take a lot to get them absolutly spot on, luckily there is a fairly good guide with the S350 / 2002 V8 setup.

[Artie]

I got my calipers from a breakers, scour the lands for busted Elises, thats where you'll find them as well.

You can carry on debating this to the Nth degree about the master cylinder etc etc

IMO if you go for the AP front you need the Brembo rear calipers and the brembo disks, pref with a good pad. This is the setup I am going to try, I would then be looking at trying to get a bigger rear disk in place as well to complement the front.

All you gotta remember is extra forward bias will do the following :

-------------------------------------

Wear your front tyres down more as they are working harder during braking

Reduce you're braking distance slightly as the fronts are doing more of the work compared to the rear and will reach lock quicker.

Introduce oversteer when braking into a corner.

Brakes are very much like suspension in that it take a lot to get them absolutly spot on, luckily there is a fairly good guide with the S350 / 2002 V8 setup.

You could get away with having someone make you a flat hat with a 60mm bore to attach the discs to the inboard mounting point. This is how the Wilwood kit is made on my car. I will be going to a partial WC kit with 330mm X28mm rotors up front and HUGE brembo calipers. You'll need to do some engineering but your efforts will be greatly rewarded. Also, unless you've ever engineered a brake kit, you can learn to modulate the pedal effort to give you a good bias front to rear without upgrading the rears. I engineered a brake kit for 3rd gen RX7's using 12.8" rotors X 1.5" thick and large 4 piston Outlaw calipers, without changing the rear brakes at all there is substantially better braking with no need to rebias the rear brakes. I track my RX7 4 or 5 weekends each spring and Summer and have NO brake fade at all with this setup. The Esprit although balanced a little differently, is almost exactly the same size and weight, and the rear brakes are almost nonexistent in real threshold braking. Upgrading will be a benefit but in my REAL World experiences on the track this is not necessary to do.

Artie

[esp88]

Many thanks folks I know many people disscus break issue her LEF !

And maybe never ending story !

Last year I was think brembo caliper too. I think Arite I saw some picture her in forum ! I also have porsche 996 (brembo monoblock 360EUR) caliper but I feel /need technical skill e.g bias balance front/rear and I could find any local shop to mashine bells etc....

When I saw there are jan. sales these caliper, my thought was

it's Lotus parts, so it will fit without balance front/rear .. techincall skill maybe just swap !

So, I will start Brembo rear break upgrade this year !

Many thanks for good advices !!

Y.Hotta

Edited February 5, 2007 by esp88

[Glyn Harper]

This is why I bought a set of standard V8 Brembo calipers to upgrade mine with. It means I can get the standard Brembo rear kit, and I shouldn't have too many problems.

The sport 350 calipers look great, but you really need to match the rears and get the correct discs that would cost a fortune.

If anyone has any rear brembo calipers they'd like to sell me.. please get in touch!

[esp88]

This is why I bought a set of standard V8 Brembo calipers to upgrade mine with. It means I can get the standard Brembo rear kit, and I shouldn't have too many problems.

The sport 350 calipers look great, but you really need to match the rears and get the correct discs that would cost a fortune.

If anyone has any rear brembo calipers they'd like to sell me.. please get in touch!

Hi Glyn

Ok So, you bought V8 Brembo

Do you have V8 hub too ? As I can guess the V8 hub has differet size.

[mwmackenzie]

I have V8 brembos on my 88 turbo with V8 hubs, they are a direct replacement and the uprights the calipers bolt onto are the same so the V8 brackets bolt straight on..

Hope this helps

Mark

[Glyn Harper]

I will need to change my hubs to make them fit, but I don't mind doing that anyway.

As it happens, new hubs come with new wheel bearings, and as mine are needing changing anyway it's not so bad.

[esp88]

I have V8 brembos on my 88 turbo with V8 hubs, they are a direct replacement and the uprights the calipers bolt onto are the same so the V8 brackets bolt straight on..

Hope this helps

Mark

Thanks Mark

Any id

Edited February 6, 2007 by esp88

[Jonathan]

Most of that is on LEW and the brake upgrade pages, it's easier to see the differences but the main one is the way the disk sits on the hub and the smaller bore diameter of 58mm.

Standard Lotus brackets fit the calipers

Rear : you need new caliper, new bracket and new disk - hubs stay the same.

Having driven a few Esprits the Brembos are pretty darn good imo esp when combined with good pads and disks.

[esp88]

Thanks Jonathan

That means if I mashined old hub to 58mm

[Jonathan]

Heh not quite as easy as that - you'd need to make sure the offset is correct and so on

The two systems on each car have different front :

Wheels bore

Hubs

Disks

Calipers

Brackets

The only way to safely intergrate them imo is to buy the Lotus parts and do the job propperly in 1 go and then you have a working system. if the parts are there I'd always be inclined to use them as they will.

If it helps I'm doing this upgrade on my SE (GT2) at the moment, heres what I have bought :

Front -

S350 (magnesio) wheels

New front hub

Lotus AP calipers + brackets (from the sale) brackets gapped by 5mm to allow larger diameter disk

Stainless brake lines

330mm x 32mm AP disk and custom bell to the same offset as S350 (ie 19.26mm)

Rear -

S350 (magnesio) wheels

Lotus rear caliper bracket (brembo)

Rear calipers (brembo)

Rear disk (EBC) 300mm x 24mm

I have the Sport 350 rear caliper mounts as well so I can fit a larger 320mm rear disk if needed and if I can find a company that do them for a good price.

YES this will give me a fair bit more forward bias but we'll see how this affects the car when on the track (often set bias forward anyways) - it certainly wont bother me for road use. The only thing that isn't off the shelf is the front disk bell but I am using original dimentions so there should be no mistakes.

Later the front calipers will go to the rear and possibly a larger 6 pot AP caliper will come to the front, kinda the idea why I'm doing it in stages is to experiment, I already know what the braking is like with the Brembos on the GT3.

[esp88]

OK Jonathan

So, you have a big plan I can see !!

Jonathan if you have V8 hub ! Is that possible to check the differece old and V8 hub e.g. offset (any other dimension are different ? )

Now 10PM I have to work earlier tomorrow

Keep in touch