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Check those fuel hoses!


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I am sure this has been mentioned before but no harm in doing so again.

I am currently replacing all the fuel lines on my 82 Turbo and its quite shocking to find so many potential problems. In fact my car has already had an engine fire with the previous owner. Very luckily for him, it went out when he turned off the ignition.

There is a metal pipe which carries the feed around the front of the engine bay. This has rubber hoses connected at each end and the pipe has NO flare or fitting of any kind on the end so the hoses rely on friction to stay on the bare ends of the metal pipe. They are held by oetiker clips which dont provide a constant force as the hose deteriorates. Sometimes I think they wanted these cars to go on fire! One of these joints was the cause of the previous owners fire. I have replaced using 2 hose clips on each joint.

The extensive use of ss braided hose means you cant see the condition of the rubber. The pieces of hose on the carbs have a tight bend radius which will accelerate any cracking

After rubbing hand on the return braided hose, I could smell petrol on my hand. Porous hose.

Return hose connection to the RH tank was so loose I didnt have to undo the clip to remove it. It just pulled off.

Hose from pump to filter was split and fell apart when clips were undone. 

This is nothing unexpected for a car this old with rubber hoses but the Turbo is particularly risky as it uses rubber hoses in a high pressure situation, as the fuel pump is a fuel injection type and the system recirculates. I keep thinking about that lovely Essex which went up and ended up in Lotusbits yard and it would be a shame if any more went this way. 

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I've been bleating away about this for years...a voice crying in the wilderness. Change the fuel hoses every two years, when you change the cambelt. That way, you won't have any problem. Yes, you will

Thanks Chris, you are clearly considerably more capable at looking after your car than me and I have now booked my car in with Gerald  as you lost me at "you have to remove" thanks for the overview an

All the hoses are 8mm internal diameter except the tank to fuel pump. The 85 cars still used the same fuel pressure regulator which has 8mm tubes so the hoses must be the same size.

Posted Images

This is my drivers side (USA) hose and it was in terrible shape. Leaking, split and ready to feed a good fire. Inspect and change if you have no history of them. 

 

Jon

IMG_2537.JPG

IMG_2538.JPG

Jon - 1984 Esprit Turbo

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This weekend I am going to fit new fuel breather pipes due to whiff of petrol, and the fuel pipes to the carbs as well. Are both fuel pipes to carbs the same diameter?

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I have had the smell of fuel while driving with the windows open on my 81 turbo, Gerald turner (without having the car infront of him) said it might be the fuel breather pipe or petrol caps seals.  

@esprit22 have you fitted new breather pipes before or familiar with the amount of work involved?  Just thinking I am going to have to visit this soon.

 

cheers

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I replaced the breather pipes a while ago has they had disintegrated into bits lying on top of the fuel tanks. Its not especially difficult. They are glued under the piece of carpet which runs above the rear window so all this has to come off and re-glued with high-temp contact adhesive. 

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3 hours ago, BP81 said:

Thanks Andy, so couple of hours work if you know what your doing?

Yes or a bit longer if you dont know what you are doing, took me longer :)

The stainless braided hoses on the early Turbos are AN-6 size. Feed to pressure reg, return to RH tank and pressure reg to both carbs.

Tank to pump is AN-8 rubber

Pump to filter and filter to metal pipe is AN-6 rubber.

Another horror I found when I first had the car was the rivets holding the clips securing the return hose to the body had corroded away and the hose was resting on the RH suspension trailing arm. Which is not ideal.

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On 5/20/2016 at 14:20, BP81 said:

I have had the smell of fuel while driving with the windows open on my 81 turbo, Gerald turner (without having the car infront of him) said it might be the fuel breather pipe or petrol caps seals.  

@esprit22 have you fitted new breather pipes before or familiar with the amount of work involved?  Just thinking I am going to have to visit this soon.

 

cheers

Done job last weekend, not a hard job but bloody fiddly. You have to remove the left and right covers either side of the engine bay (next to rear windows) which after a bit of persuading do come out. Then peel back the carpet above the heated rear window which will reveal the breather pipes. Then it's just a question of removing the old one's and fitting new, but getting to the "T" connectors which are located behind the body struts is not easy! Best to get pipe from Strattons, they do a 6 metre length which is ample. Decided to change both fuel hoses to carbs at same time and fuel filter which took a while, but give yourself a Saturday and don't rush it! 

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Thanks Chris, you are clearly considerably more capable at looking after your car than me and I have now booked my car in with Gerald :) as you lost me at "you have to remove" thanks for the overview and glad your esprit is more healthier than it was.

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After seeing the terrible pics yesterday of an esprit on fire on the way to the weekend meet, I am going to replace all my fuel lines on my 85 turbo. You can buy the hose direct ftrom SJ but I wondered if there is a better alternative? any one used anything different? and do you know the sizes for the 85 turbo? the earlier turbos iused braided but  apparnelty the 85 used rubber. 

 

 

Do you expect me to talk........ No Mr Bond I expect you to die!

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All the hoses are 8mm internal diameter except the tank to fuel pump.

The 85 cars still used the same fuel pressure regulator which has 8mm tubes so the hoses must be the same size.

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Hi @Chinsterb did you end up getting fuel lines from sj or other? I'm taking delivery of an '85 turbo esprit tomorrow and this will be one of the first jobs to do so interested what you found the best solution to be.

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Hi Steve welcome to the gang! what have you bought? where are you based? 

Yes I bought form SJ they are really pretty good for most stuff and usually quick on the delivery. 

Cheers Chinster

 

 

 

Sorry didn't see that last part of your mail. cant say it was the best choice as mine were corroded and wanted to change quickly they are 8mm internal so you could go or any fuel hose, I did like the red stripes on mine though!

 

 

 

Do you expect me to talk........ No Mr Bond I expect you to die!

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OK Thanks. I've been trying to buy my newly acquired '85 Turbo for for more than 2 months and have finally completed the sale and have it safely tucked up in my garage at last. During that time, I've been busy reading through the fantastic resource that is this forum. Firstly the cambelt has just been done last week by the previous owner so no worries with that. The other thing that is mentioned a lot is the fuel lines as per the topic of this thread. Mine appear to be original with the crimp style connectors rather than jubilee clips or similar and should probably be replaced soon. I've seen on Ebay fuel line and of course SJ/ Lotus will sell this so just wondering the best route to purchase and wondered what you guys have done and whether rubber or braided.  Any input to particular fuel lines that are more prone to failure than others would be appreciated or is it just a case of looking at the parts list and replacing all?

Really looking forward to getting to know and learn about the car so will be asking for a lot of questions! I'm in Surrey near J7 M25 if anyone's close by?!

I'll post some pics in the intro section later tonight or tomorrow :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

On monday evening at our local Norfolk meet I was showing a couple of chaps my engine and in the bright sun I noticed a few of my fuel lines had some very thin cracking. I replaced all my fuel lines about 4 years ago when I first put in the engine. Checking tonight they are still secure and not leaking. It quite a thick wall tube I used. I did just check and found it is suitable pipe for fuel.

http://www.semperflex.com/uploads/tx_AScatalogsemperit/flexind-lang/TU25_en1450426385458.pdf

I am going to replace though as am not going to risk a leak. So the SJ option, is it braided? I think when I put these pipes on I decided against braided so I could keep an eye on it. I had thought about the Goodridge pipe but they recommend changing every 2 years!

Any pics would be good.

The pipe I had bought from a place in Norwich who told me it was the same stuff they supplied Lotus with. Was cheap only about £3.00 per meter. Looking at the SJ site it looks the same as what I have already?

Buddsy

 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

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Just ordered new breather hoses from SJ but when they arrived they are 10mm internal not 8mm so dont fit on to the connectors. Has any one else had this issue? I have cut down the exisiting ones as they did have kinks at the conector end and did have some fuel in them whilst they do still fit across the roof line they are a bit tight. 

I have to say that having the breather hoses held in by glue and carpet is about the worst peice of design ever! has any one found a way of doing this better? 

Do you expect me to talk........ No Mr Bond I expect you to die!

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Probably worth phoning them as I ordered from them and they sent 8mm. It appeared to be ordinary polythene tubing which is not the ideal material for continuous exposure to fuel vapour and will eventually go the same way as the original. It didnt appear to be silicone or some such material but could be wrong.

The glue and carpet is not great, it probably is OK for new-build but for re-installation its not good at all, although I did manage to get a decent job in the end with the same method.

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Sent SJ an image of the difference attached, the tubing was a special fuel specific one called crystalfuel which is good however as well as the internal size being worng the the external size is quite large as well so not sure it will fit 2 widths in the little channel. 

 

 

2016-06-22 18.03.58.jpg

Do you expect me to talk........ No Mr Bond I expect you to die!

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OK they must have changed it. I did mine over a year ago. They sent tubing shown at the top. The silicone is easy to tell as the pic shows, it has a "whiter" appearance.

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I've just done mine with 6mm ID, 11mm outer diameter and they go in the channel fine side by side. By the way I used regular fuel hose with a cotton braid outside which will hopefully last longer than the original. 

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just had this exchange with SJ!

 

 

Hi Christian, the hose sent to you is correct! it is the original lotus equipment from the factory! from the photo you have the old hose is wrong!

 

Thanks
James

 

Hi James That’s interesting as the one you sent me will not attach to the anti surge value part number BO76L600IF which requires 8mm. Also the hose you have sent me is silicone based which didn’t exist when the car was manufactured, It is a good upgrade I agree, but not original.

The car has never had the hoses changed and they are all currently original which I why I want to change them.

Cheers Christian

 

well the hose comes from the factory, and the same we have here in a early S1 esprit and is defiantly original! its the only thing available. if you wish to send it back and find your own alternative that is fine with us.

 

Thanks
James

 

Seems a bit stange! even the parts list says it is 8mm! so not sure it can come form the factory!

 

 

 

Do you expect me to talk........ No Mr Bond I expect you to die!

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Well this is what they sent me, and it was 8mm polythene:

FUEL TANK VENT PIPE, For carburettor turbo and non-turbo only.

A036L0085V

METRE

6

19.62

I had a strange exchange with them about wrong thread on a crossgate cable rod. They said the thread was definitely correct and Lotus must have used the wrong thread on the crossgate cable!

Fact is, there are so many differences on these cars I would not blame them for not getting things right every time but at least they could be a bit more diplomatic about things.

 

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Youu are not wrong Andy, I dont mind it not being right but as you say would be nice for them to be a little less agressive and understanding that there are differences. perhaps they are in such a strong place in the market they dont need to have great customer service. 

Anyway found a nice company called pertek who can get be the right stuff locally! 

they may also be able to help with replacing my aircon hoses which is a bonus! 

 

Cheers Christain 

 

 

Do you expect me to talk........ No Mr Bond I expect you to die!

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