Other cars with 108x5 bolt pattern?

[Drfatz]

Dose anyone know of other cars with the 108x5 bolt pattern? Frankly I just am not going to spend $4000 to get wheels for my car. I have heard Volvo, Alfa and even a Ford Mondeo use the pattern. Worst comes to worst I can always put an adapter on the hub to change the bolt pattern to a more "available" size.

-G

[Vulcan Grey]

Dose anyone know of other cars with the 108x5 bolt pattern? Frankly I just am not going to spend $4000 to get wheels for my car. I have heard Volvo, Alfa and even a Ford Mondeo use the pattern. Worst comes to worst I can always put an adapter on the hub to change the bolt pattern to a more "available" size.

-G

Ferrari and Saab also.

Ferrari offsets and hub spigot diameter are all wrong though. Don't know about Saab.

Why don't you buy Lotus V8 wheels? Can usually find them for $1400

[Paul93Lotus]

This guy can make you custom adapters/spacers to accomodate almost any wheel (offset permitting)

http://www.wheeladapter.com/

Someone on the turbo esprit board says he does excellent work. Best to convert to the 5x114 bolt pattern as that is the most common.

[shadeone]

there are a number of wheel sites that let you search by bolt pattern, problem is, all the results are usually bling style big chrome wheels...

try www.1010tires.com and go to the advanced search filter... thers some nice ones on there....

otherwise, im doing the wheeladapter thing as mentioned above so ill let you know how that goes!

shade

[BusaNostra]

Dose anyone know of other cars with the 108x5 bolt pattern? Frankly I just am not going to spend $4000 to get wheels for my car. I have heard Volvo, Alfa and even a Ford Mondeo use the pattern. Worst comes to worst I can always put an adapter on the hub to change the bolt pattern to a more "available" size.

-G

Yeah! all the cars you mentioned uses 108 but the problem is the offset. Most front wheel drive, the offset will not match a rear wheel drive like Lotus. Front wheel design look shity too for rear wheel application. Well, if you have lots of dough, then go ahead take the Ferrari wheels. That will work. Deep disc too.

[t70]

ford crown victoria i think and lincoln use that pattern.... www.ronalusa.com/cars.html shows a list of 5x108

[Artie]

ford crown victoria i think and lincoln use that pattern.... www.ronalusa.com/cars.html shows a list of 5x108

Graham,

Yeah, I wish I'd thought ahead and just had spacers made, you could easily get away with a 1" spacer front and rear and do a heavy offset wheel, like a 35mm offset front and a 40mm offset rear with a lip and with spacers you have a perfect look and fit! I'd vote for 5x114.3(or also called a 5X4.5) to adapt to then you have a plethora of choices as Nissan, toyota, Mazda etc etc use this bolt pattern. You could get a set of staggered- fronts in an 8" width and rears in a 9.5" width and look great for very little money for the wheels. I had a local machine shop make me 25mm spacers out of billet aluminum to bolt to my hubs to space my wheels out to the fender arch.

Artie

[M Blur]

admit it Artie - like me you;d love a set of Volk racing, Work or Gram Lights on there....

[M Blur]

admit it Artie - like me you;d love a set of Volk racing, Work or Gram Lights on there....

[Drfatz]

Well there is a set of V8 ones up on eBay right now. I put in a bid for those, but if I don't get it I might consider adapting to a different bolt pattern. My only concern is you would need about 1" or more of an adapter just so you have enough threads to hold the bolt and then you are adding a decent amount of stress to the hub by having the weight hanging off of it.

[Vulcan Grey]

Well there is a set of V8 ones up on eBay right now. I put in a bid for those, but if I don't get it I might consider adapting to a different bolt pattern. My only concern is you would need about 1" or more of an adapter just so you have enough threads to hold the bolt and then you are adding a decent amount of stress to the hub by having the weight hanging off of it.

Hmm?

Spacers don't actually do what you're afraid of.

Let's explain it this way

Take for instance a wheel made for a Ferrari 360

18x10" 50mm offset.

The Lotus uses 17mm offset and the same size wheel.

If you bolt the Ferrari wheel to the lotus the wheel will be up inside the car 33mm (50-17) leaving 1.3" between the outside of the wheel and the fender.

So you can use a 33mm spacer, bolt the spacer to the hub and the wheel to the spacer, and the stress on the hub will be exactly the same as with a stock V8 wheel.

trust me adding a 33mm spacer to say a ferrari wheel is no different weightwise than the '97 Esprit V8 AWI wheels... That offset had to come from somewhere... It means the Esprit wheel has 33mm more thickness at the hub than the ferrari wheel.

The only issue with spacers is that you'd be bolting into aluminum rahter than the steel of the hub. Aluminum will not hold a thread as strongly as steel. But 33mm of aluminum migh be just as strong as 10mm of steel. The threads won't take abuse though. many people use spacers without problem, just make sure your bolts are long enough for proper engagement.

[Artie]

Well there is a set of V8 ones up on eBay right now. I put in a bid for those, but if I don't get it I might consider adapting to a different bolt pattern. My only concern is you would need about 1" or more of an adapter just so you have enough threads to hold the bolt and then you are adding a decent amount of stress to the hub by having the weight hanging off of it.

Jon,

Not really, I have my tuner car with Advan wheels on it! I like those wheel brands for my RX7, but for the Esprit, I wanted something a little more sophisticated, so I went with the japanese manufacturer WorkWheels!

Graham,

When you put an adaptor on the hub, you bolt the adaptor to the hub-then you use your standard lug bolts to bolt the wheel to the adaptor(in case you weren't aware) It's not a matter of having enough threads to attach. Next issue is if you are using a spacer, you are using a larger offset wheel and thus not really placing additional stress on the hub. I'm not sure where the physics are to back up the claim that using a spacer will put TONS more stress on a hub, but race cars use spacers ALL THE TIME! As long as you are not going beyond 0 offset to make the wheel and hub spacer to a negative offset you won't be putting additional stress on the hub. If you were running in excess of 500WHP I would consider having a wheel made so you were not dealing with a bolt on spacer(more pieces to fail) but aside from that a spacer won't be an issue....

Artie

[M Blur]

Fair enough Artie - I know the style scan ometimes be a little ill-suited to the Esprit but I'd have jumped at the chance of a set of CE-27s if they were available simply because they offer such good strength to low rotational mass.

No better racewheels than Rays Volk and Gramlights imho.. Advan and Work up there too. However OZ, BBS and here in the UK have good race credibilit - Compomotive and Team Dyanamics are putting out comparable heat-treated rims at reasonable weight.

[Artie]

Hmm?

Spacers don't actually do what you're afraid of.

Let's explain it this way

Take for instance a wheel made for a Ferrari 360

18x10" 50mm offset.

The Lotus uses 17mm offset and the same size wheel.

If you bolt the Ferrari wheel to the lotus the wheel will be up inside the car 33mm (50-17) leaving 1.3" between the outside of the wheel and the fender.

So you can use a 33mm spacer, bolt the spacer to the hub and the wheel to the spacer, and the stress on the hub will be exactly the same as with a stock V8 wheel.

trust me adding a 33mm spacer to say a ferrari wheel is no different weightwise than the '97 Esprit V8 AWI wheels... That offset had to come from somewhere... It means the Esprit wheel has 33mm more thickness at the hub than the ferrari wheel.

The only issue with spacers is that you'd be bolting into aluminum rahter than the steel of the hub. Aluminum will not hold a thread as strongly as steel. But 33mm of aluminum migh be just as strong as 10mm of steel. The threads won't take abuse though. many people use spacers without problem, just make sure your bolts are long enough for proper engagement.

Travis always has a way of explaining what I know but can't seem to explain right! Thanks Travis. I've been trying to dispell the "spacer" myth for years, makes no common physical sense to me why people don't get it but....Whatever!

Artie

Jon,

No don't get me wrong, I love Rays, Volks etc. They are by far the best wheels for the money and the Japanese tuning companies have taken great strides in making the wheels ultra light and super strong. However, you're right, since my Esprit is my "sophisticated" car I wanted something less racer for my needs. I have a set of god aweful black sparco ultralights for my RX7 for the track that I wouldn't be seen dead with on the street! You've seen the wheels that I use on the street for the 7..."boy racer" my dad calls them, but he thinks my cars are incredible nonetheless.

[M Blur]

Can't believe you don' have Yoko A048Rs to go on your Super Advans Artie..

RX is a honey.. I'm aup against a few gnarly 600bhp triple rotor ones this year/./.

[sanj]

Travis always has a way of explaining what I know but can't seem to explain right! Thanks Travis. I've been trying to dispell the "spacer" myth for years, makes no common physical sense to me why people don't get it but....Whatever!

It's not entirely a myth. If you use spacers to move the wheel centreline outwards, you are indeed putting more stress on the bearings etc. A good example of this is the lowriders and pickup trucks you see with the entire wheel sticking out several inches from the fender. If you are merely using spacers to bring the centreline of a non-standard wheel back to the factory fit, then there is no such issue. You do still have the issue of attachment, if you use longer bolts to go through a spacer into the factory hub, strength is a concern. If the spacer bolts to the hub and the wheel bolts to the spacer, the threads in the spacer had better be something other than aluminium.

[Artie]

It's not entirely a myth. If you use spacers to move the wheel centreline outwards, you are indeed putting more stress on the bearings etc. A good example of this is the lowriders and pickup trucks you see with the entire wheel sticking out several inches from the fender. If you are merely using spacers to bring the centreline of a non-standard wheel back to the factory fit, then there is no such issue. You do still have the issue of attachment, if you use longer bolts to go through a spacer into the factory hub, strength is a concern. If the spacer bolts to the hub and the wheel bolts to the spacer, the threads in the spacer had better be something other than aluminium.

Sanj,

Yes as I stated earlier there is more stress placed on the hub if a spacer is used to push a wheel past a 0 offset. If the spacer is used to space a wheel outward is still inside the width of the rim, this is no different than a wheel of a different offset! If you space the wheel so the hub is now even or outside the wheel width, then you are placing stress on the hub. You lever action is now outside the mechanical center substantially. If it within the wheel width there is less chance of this stress being detrimental. Why do you think aluminum won't be substantial enough to hold a wheel to the spacer? If your spacer is cast aluminum then yes I agree this won't be very strong, but most spacers I've seen are billet aluminum, much stronger and the molecules of aluminum are arranged in a much more compact pattern, thus making for very good strength.

Artie

[Artie]

Can't believe you don' have Yoko A048Rs to go on your Super Advans Artie..

RX is a honey.. I'm aup against a few gnarly 600bhp triple rotor ones this year/./.

3rotor=

I'll settle for my measley 440BHP 2 rotor! I don't use the super advans for the track, I have some very sticky Kumho victoracers on my track wheels.

Artie

[Drfatz]

Well it is official. I lost the auction and will be making a set of adapters to change the bolt pattern of my car. I will have to investigate this 5x4.5 Artie was talking about, because I know there are quite a lot of sweet wheels for the Japanese imports around here.

As for the spacer myth I guess my concern (being a Physicist) stems not from the offset, which from my understanding is a measurement from the mating surface of the wheel to the centerline, but the location of the center of mass. One would hope that when a wheel is designed by O.Z. or any other reputable manufacturer they design it such that the center of mass of the wheel lies quite close to the mating surface with the hub thus reducing the torque the wheel it self puts on the hub. When you install a 1+" adapter/spacer you have now changed that center of mass a bit granted if the wheel were designed with the CM offset more towards the car then you may actually be benefiting the hub by reducing the torque caused by the wheel. However, as one can now see if the CM is placed directly over the hub and you move it 1+" in either direction your causing inadvertent stress to the hub. So in the end it depends entirely on the wheel which I choose...assuming I make a strong adapter

Just my 2 cents

-G

[Vulcan Grey]

Well it is official. I lost the auction and will be making a set of adapters to change the bolt pattern of my car. I will have to investigate this 5x4.5 Artie was talking about, because I know there are quite a lot of sweet wheels for the Japanese imports around here.

As for the spacer myth I guess my concern (being a Physicist) stems not from the offset, which from my understanding is a measurement from the mating surface of the wheel to the centerline, but the location of the center of mass. One would hope that when a wheel is designed by O.Z. or any other reputable manufacturer they design it such that the center of mass of the wheel lies quite close to the mating surface with the hub thus reducing the torque the wheel it self puts on the hub. When you install a 1+" adapter/spacer you have now changed that center of mass a bit granted if the wheel were designed with the CM offset more towards the car then you may actually be benefiting the hub by reducing the torque caused by the wheel. However, as one can now see if the CM is placed directly over the hub and you move it 1+" in either direction your causing inadvertent stress to the hub. So in the end it depends entirely on the wheel which I choose...assuming I make a strong adapter

Just my 2 cents

-G

It's not the center of mass, but the moment arm created from the pivot of the suspension arm to the center of the contact patch, and to a lesser extent the inside edge of the tire.

The triangle created between the center of the wheel (at the hub, or middle of the wheel) down to the center of the contact patch and back to the pivot of the suspension arm.

If you move the center of the wheels contact patch, you create a longer/shorter moment arm and change the forces acting on the suspension. That can cause a camber change, which will cause the tire to wear fast.

Also if you were to keep the center of contact patch the same, but put on an much wider wheel, the portion of the wheel & tire that move inboard will also cause a camber change, wearing the tires faster.

Your SE will need camber correction with pretty much anything over the stock wheel width, and any change in offset and the center of tire contact patch. The SE didn't have this from stock. The later 94+ cars did though.

You can see this here

http://www.lotuscolorado.com/vulcangrey/ga...tableupperlinks

[Drfatz]

Hey Travis, How much did it cost you to make your own adjustable links? I am thinking of going down the same path seeing as I am experienced in Solid Works and have access to a machine shop.

-G

It's not the center of mass, but the moment arm created from the pivot of the suspension arm to the center of the contact patch, and to a lesser extent the inside edge of the tire.

The triangle created between the center of the wheel (at the hub, or middle of the wheel) down to the center of the contact patch and back to the pivot of the suspension arm.

If you move the center of the wheels contact patch, you create a longer/shorter moment arm and change the forces acting on the suspension. That can cause a camber change, which will cause the tire to wear fast.

Also if you were to keep the center of contact patch the same, but put on an much wider wheel, the portion of the wheel & tire that move inboard will also cause a camber change, wearing the tires faster.

Your SE will need camber correction with pretty much anything over the stock wheel width, and any change in offset and the center of tire contact patch. The SE didn't have this from stock. The later 94+ cars did though.

You can see this here

http://www.lotuscolorado.com/vulcangrey/ga...tableupperlinks

[Vulcan Grey]

Hey Travis, How much did it cost you to make your own adjustable links? I am thinking of going down the same path seeing as I am experienced in Solid Works and have access to a machine shop.

-G

Costs were

$17 for the 304L stainless steel (easy to weld to chromoly) McMaster

$80 for the 16mm LH & RH taps MSC

$30 for the welding

$19 for the Lotus adjuster bolts from SCW maybe that was $19ea.

~$8 for the nuts LH & RH.

I did the machining

I had them nickel-teflon plated at work for free.

[esprits4de]

Costs were

$17 for the 304L stainless steel (easy to weld to chromoly) McMaster

$80 for the 16mm LH & RH taps MSC

$30 for the welding

$19 for the Lotus adjuster bolts from SCW maybe that was $19ea.

~$8 for the nuts LH & RH.

I did the machining

I had them nickel-teflon plated at work for free.

I just got a set of original Lotus adjusters at 120 GBP per pair, so the diff is not big...

[superdavelotus]

Depends which side of the pond you are from? Alfa V6's have 108 x 5PCD also Renault Espace V6 too!

Other on the European side 110PCD is most common as Saab, Vauxhall/Opel/GM. Audi/VW group is 112 PCD.

Over on the US side cars will be completely different and you're more likely to find more cars with 108 X 5PCD as cars are bigger thus requiring 5 bolts instead of 4 which is pretty common in europe as our cars are smaller.

[M Blur]

I just got a set of original Lotus adjusters at 120 GBP per pair, so the diff is not big...

I need to look at my set-up again - hopefully Hazzard had adjustable links put in tho he ran stock wheels so maybe not..

Olaf, where did you get yours from>>?

Jon

Edited February 19, 2007 by M Blur