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Esprit Turbo project car - part3 - the further continuation - Page 120 - Esprit 'Project & Restoration' Room - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
Lotusfab

Esprit Turbo project car - part3 - the further continuation

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No dispute at all that galvanising is the best method of rust protection.

If there is a company which has found a way to minimise or eliminate the distortion thats also great and tips the balance further in its favour. This bugged Lotus all through the Esprit and Elan M100 years and Olly Winterbottom mentions it in his book, stating they really wanted to use aluminium for the M100 owing to the requirement to galvanise steel for rustproofing and (quote) "The most effective steel treatment is zinc galvanising but that can be prone to serious heat distortion". Again, if this issue is consigned to history thats great.

Chromate passivation is a standard method of reducing oxidation and its likely this was done on the factory chassis but it does not prevent the galvanising turning dull grey after a while with a relatively soft surface which can stain. The POR15 will simply wash down to new condition.

Serious question: 

How do you check the chassis for any distortion without a factory jig? If it is possible to reliably do this, it even further favours galvanising but I am not sure how you would do this accurately.

 

14 minutes ago, Lotusfab said:

Back to the resto

I need some help with the fan circuit. There is a brown fuse holder of some king in the fan circuit. It looks like 50s bakerlite and is broken. Is it some kind of thermal fuse or just a fuse holder to protect the fan circuit?

Sounds like the dreaded fused relay. All 3 fans going through this one relay causes it to melt and on later cars they used a 3-pole thermal cutout, which is a better solution. 

But the fused relay was plugged into a standard relay base, it sounds like you have something else, maybe you do have the thermal trip?

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It does look very nice! 

13 minutes ago, Andyww said:

No dispute at all that galvanising is the best method of rust protection.

If there is a company which has found a way to minimise or eliminate the distortion thats also great and tips the balance further in its favour. This bugged Lotus all through the Esprit and Elan M100 years and Olly Winterbottom mentions it in his book, stating they really wanted to use aluminium for the M100 owing to the requirement to galvanise steel for rustproofing and (quote) "The most effective steel treatment is zinc galvanising but that can be prone to serious heat distortion". Again, if this issue is consigned to history thats great.

Chromate passivation is a standard method of reducing oxidation and its likely this was done on the factory chassis but it does not prevent the galvanising turning dull grey after a while with a relatively soft surface which can stain. The POR15 will simply wash down to new condition.

Serious question: 

How do you check the chassis for any distortion without a factory jig? If it is possible to reliably do this, it even further favours galvanising but I am not sure how you would do this accurately.

 

Sounds like the dreaded fused relay. All 3 fans going through this one relay causes it to melt and on later cars they used a 3-pole thermal cutout, which is a better solution. 

But the fused relay was plugged into a standard relay base, it sounds like you have something else, maybe you do have the thermal trip?

Having looked at the circuit in detail I believe I have the early Turbo car single relay, no themal trip. Is the brown Bakelite thing just a fuse holder? Mine is broken but I have never seen such an old looking fuse holder? What fuse should it have? Stephen if your reading this can you help Identify it?

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Andy, maybe a fan ceased and the relay melted so the owner cut it out of the circuit? It is plugged into a standard relay base. I can replace the Bakelite part with a modern fuse holder Im guessing that's what it is? 

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So Does yours..  so lets move on ...  there is work to do..  😀

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7 minutes ago, Lotusfab said:

Andy, maybe a fan ceased and the relay melted so the owner cut it out of the circuit? It is plugged into a standard relay base. I can replace the Bakelite part with a modern fuse holder Im guessing that's what it is? 

Fabian....have you got a photo of the offending item? Need to see if ive got the same and what state its in.

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Maybe a picture?

The original thinking was if a fan got jammed up rather than burn out the wiring the fuse mounted on the top of the relay would blow and the fan fail light come on. But the fuse was only held with tiny contacts and the continuous current would cause the plastic casing of the relay to melt even if no fault condition.

So they went to a unit with 3 thermal trips, one for each fan, so one fan could be lost and the other 2 still run, a much better solution, and there are reset buttons on the unit. I am not sure if these are available. I intended to make a bracket for mine with 3 resettable thermal breakers but never got round to it yet. I only got as far as buying the breakers :)

if you search on "hella fused relay" you will see the original type.

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Thanks I'm away for a few days will send a pic when I get back.

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Mmmm, I could upgrade my car to using thermal trips. At the moment it has a single relay and I believe a brown cased inline fuse. This bit on my car needs replacing. Has anyone got some pics of this old config and know if it is an inking fuse holder and what fuse is fitted? Thanks.

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If the fans are a new type the fuse would need to be sized accordingly for 3 fans, and needs to be slow-blow for the starting current of the fans.

If might be on yours the Hella relay has been replaced with a standard one and one inline fuse.

I have never seen one of those 3 pole things close up but from the pic it looks like it needs a special connector. 

I was planning to fit 3 of these:

http://uk.farnell.com/potter-brumfield-te-connectivity/w57-xb1a4a10-10/circuit-breaker-10a/dp/9659188?st=thermal breaker 10 amp

 

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IMG_4372.thumb.JPG.63922aca693412e03be812bcaf6b25c9.JPGWhat is this black connector? It's not in the wiring diagram. I'm guessing a fuse holder? If so what size fuse. You can see the circuit has been disabled. Will need to repair the relay connections.

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IMG_4374.thumb.JPG.95faa255fc24fd9400435146454ea880.JPGI'm guessing it's a very old fuse holder from the positive feed from the alternator?

im guessing also my fans are 80W.

so P=VI

80\12= 6.7 amps per fan. 

20 amp fuse? Andy what do you think with your electronics hat on? I have an A grade in electronics, many many years ago. I can be bothered to sit down and think about it. These days Inwantbto bolt bits on! Solution please!

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That would be correct although there will be a power-on surge of the inductive load of the motors so could be 25 amps. The factory Ford fans use less but still overload the relay.

TBH thats a lot for one fuse, it would be better to fuse each separately, or better still, use 3 thermal breakers. But if you need to get it all done quickly you could defer that. That middle relay location is the fan relay, what have they done, its cut out?

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Thanks Andy. Yep need to get it back together fir a house move. They have cut the wires off! Good point about the start up loading. I'm a theoretical electronics person more than a practical one. Although I am getting proficient at looms! I have the fan relay diagram. Will have to source the correct spec wires from Autosparks, correctly colourvcoded and then rebuild this circuit. Is that a Lucas fuse holder? It's broken inside, which is annoying!😡😡😡😡😡Why do people have to cut things?....

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Heater pipes are in but had to put extra pipe connectors  in the top of the hoses as the originals are no longer available and the S and J ones aren't long enough. At least it's all new and Inam in a position to refit the radiator shroud! IMG_4373.thumb.JPG.f0012d3d2ca6abe95700a02583012962.JPGIt's all new under here, even the Chassis pipes. The other silicon hoses should arrive today! Ohh, but it's is of course totally original😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

Anyone got a picture of the fuse relays and wiring, so I don't have to work it all out from scratch? I'm under time pressure.

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Thanks to Richard on here I have a very nice expanded circuit diagram!

I forgot to say I have acquired some of the Loop pile carpet for the boot trim. It will look fab when I have replaced the bulkhead carpet and all the others. The original bulkhead carpet had heat damage on the exhaust side. It's pretty good quality and an exact match for the original. 

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They look familiar!

If only I could complete my under bonnet electrics!....

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That's nuthin'!

It took me 7 hours of fettling to fit one of those to my S1.

The hole is further forward which means the internals foul the inside of the inner wheel arch.

Result: proper 'Q' Branch.

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That’s much better Fabian👏👏👏

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Has anyone got a pic of the rear of the fuse boxes with the correct wiring for the fans?

IMG_4372.thumb.JPG.14cf874afb8c81147657104d0dbe48e2.JPGThis doesn't look like my wiring circuit. Maybe some of the wires on the left have been moved from the centre relay?

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Have looked at this a bit I have an Essex wiring diagram and being one on the first wet sumps the wiring seems similar. I would say the left relay with all the wires is correct apart from a red/ black wire to the fan warning light and the centre relay is the fan warning light relay from which the earth and a yellow/ black wire to the warning light is missing? If anyone can confirm this it would be really helpful. I could add them but may have to remove the entire loom unless they are lurking under the body! 

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Fabian

The Essex wiring diagram we have is the closest to our particular cars (early wet sump) though a word of caution being that the wiring colours have at times deviated from what is show. Sometimes its a process of elimination to work out what is wrong.

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