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Esprit Turbo project car - part3 - the further continuation - Page 155 - Esprit 'Project & Restoration' Room - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
Lotusfab

Esprit Turbo project car - part3 - the further continuation

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16 minutes ago, Lotusfab said:

What's the issue with permabond 136, seems to be for metal to metal joints?

None as far as i am aware , i have used it for years without  issue.  

18 minutes ago, Lotusfab said:

I didn't aqua blast the block. Just the head and bearing housings no intake manifold. It's going to take a while to clean the head! 

I remove the plugs as part of strip down,  then flush the galleries before any cleaning to see what is in there , Its amazing what crap lies in there .. I then seal the galleries for media cleaning.. then flush and clean again as part of pre assembly clean..   Best to remove the plugs on the head galleries as well, along with the roll pins, there is no way you will get a thorough clean otherwise..  re-seal the plus with 572.  

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IMG_6283.thumb.JPG.ad942120ef7ca640f05ceff4eb80a573.JPGIMG_6284.thumb.JPG.654fb6eada6a906482cecd83ac3a7871.JPGIMG_6286.thumb.JPG.292e45a9431e7d3314e40bc9269f5a46.JPGHave cleaned all these parts really well. I don't believe a garage would invest the time I have, the one advantage of doing it all yourself! There's practically no wear on the crank, Pete measured it for me! 

I am debating whether or not to remove the plugs, I found no debris whatever in the oil ways. I could put my borescope in and have a look! Seems itvhas already been done and now I'm doing it again!

IMG_6282.thumb.JPG.4a18f08ad7564d6217532acdb345459c.JPG

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That's how the pipe cleaner came out on the first pass, no dirt.

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1 hour ago, Lotusfab said:

Have cleaned all these parts really well. I don't believe a garage would invest the time I have, the one advantage of doing it all yourself! 

I think you will actually find any garage or engine builder worth their salt would, It is not in their interest to build something that would fail from not attending to cleaning parts.. 

1 hour ago, Lotusfab said:

I am debating whether or not to remove the plugs, I found no debris whatever in the oil ways. I could put my borescope in and have a look! Seems itvhas already been done and now I'm doing it again!

You must do as you see fit.  if you have not removed the plugs you have not accessed all the oil galleries so can not be sure.. your bore scope must be very small, but will still not show the whole picture due to the angles.. 

As I say any garage worth their salt would remove the plugs to check and clean..  less than 20 minutes to do the whole job seems a no brainier to me ....   But you must do what you feel is best.. I was only trying to give insight from my experiences,  Sorry i did not intend to upset the flow of your thread. .. ..    

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 Thanks Dave. My only thought is I was told not to remove them. I did intend to before  this advice. Will have to look into it further. I've plenty of work to do so can hold the assembly until I have decided his to proceed. I still need to get some Loctite anyway!

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I recently rebuilt the entire front suspension in my wife's discovery three. It's basically  a truck. All the parts are about four times the size of the Lotus, which is like a toy in comparison. The torques on the discovery go up to 270 NM. I havevall the kit to torque to this level and remove very stiff bolts.  So I'm thinking maybe I should just take the plugs out. But I will consult Pete first who told me to leave them alone.

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42 minutes ago, Lotusfab said:

Thanks Dave. My only thought is I was told not to remove them.

That's fine,  I only mentioned it as you are so particular about every detail of cleanliness ,  I thought it was possibly something you were not aware of..    It's probably best I don't confuse things with my input when you already have the advise of others.. Good luck with the project,  I look forward to seeing the finished product.   

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Hi Dave, please continue with the inputs. The aim is to construct the best possible engine I can. You've obviously got a lot of experience and good ideas that I can put to good use. Thanks for all the help and guidance.

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So today is going well. I opened my maticulously labelled bearing bags. Place the thrust washers and half shells in, so far so good. After having a rest due to the mental strain I realised I never took the splash sheild out! Ohhhhh dear, they never fitted it! Well fortunately you can buy them. But that doesn't help here at this point in time. So without any further ado I, taking the passengers door to pieces to take the glass out and polish it, I noticed a scratch! 😩😩😩😩😩😩😩IMG_6294.thumb.JPG.63f245b7a0a9b26eaeee8580888502b1.JPGIMG_6295.thumb.JPG.8e876e2bcab714e8f3a634f6478311ad.JPGI have decided not to remove the plugs, based on earlier advice, after sleeping on it. I have cleaned up to them and around no dirt was found. I have blasted the paths ways with air and brake cleaner, and used bent plastic. This is the second rebuild so I'm guessing it's so clean because it has already been done. Now I have cleaned it again! 

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Ok I have now taken internal photos of the oil galleries. They are spotless. Must have been cleaned before. I know they are boring but I post them for interest, if I can get them off the borescope. Maybe thus should be added to the shoping  list of engine builders, seeing is believing! 

I'm going to use permabond A136, and not fit the spraysheild. It hadn't been fitted because of new seal technology which make it obsolete. 

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The reason there is no splash guard is because the manual leads you to believe it can be fitted after the MBP is assembled - it can't!!   That oil seal will still cope if its not fitted, but that's obviously not the recommended approach.  

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Thanks Steve, I knew that but took advice and decided not to fit it. Obviously everyone must make their own decisions. If you copy my procedures and have a problem I accept no liability. You must use the manual provided by Lotus and follow their procedures. This blog is just for fun!

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IMG_6300.thumb.JPG.d07c4b95d2a4dee7f7acf9a97fd500f1.JPGIMG_6302.thumb.JPG.ed78c8e65d3ed710aa56af4a1fd3517f.JPGIMG_6303.thumb.JPG.e5b59e013d9ba501f70ef53eab96147a.JPGOil pipe still to fit. Slightly less sealant next time.

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IMG_6306.thumb.JPG.4c4876b8e3469662f3e9a101ba9b55a9.JPGPistons in. Rings were on wrong, now perfect. Oil pipe to do!

Gallery pictures coming when Inhave sorted the IT.

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So here's the longditudinal oil gallery. With the plug in the right. It's much clearer on my scope. Basically it's very very clean.4EFFA3EF.jpg.5bc8cea0a7f1584f23041998d5a0915b.jpg

The reflective bit is where the dirt would collect.

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So far so good! Well onto my next problem I don't have the front and rear oil seal alignment tools. I need to be sure they are centred exactly. Any ideas???? If nit I will have to devise a solution.

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I got to say my feeling with the seals is they will be self centering. If the bolts are done up slowly and progressively I can't  see an issue. Provided you can get the seals over the crank of course! 

Any input much appreciated! 

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Fabian, when doing my dry sump I found the seals went on the crank easily with plenty of lubrication. It was a job I was fearing to be difficult but was far easier than I imagined and importantly no leaks! 

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Thanks Steve,

thats my gut feeling on this. The seals have probably changed a lot in 40'years. 

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I have used a shim cut from a plastic bottle to help center the seal housing whilst I tighten the bolts.

SealInstallShimSmall.jpg

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Well Chaps I'm really glad I decided to rebuild this engine. Look at this.IMG_6310.thumb.JPG.9e4c98f87c10009464c7206da9b4135f.JPGRTV silicon used on a paper gasket. We all know where the RTV strands are going to end up! 

Wellseal for this I think!

Oil pick up pipe in. Off to work later so a short stoppage to my engine building program. Overall well with the effort. A shame it was such a sloppy rebuild before as all the parts are in good shape!

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Thats very naughty as any strands there would have ended up blocking the turbo oil feed.

 

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20 hours ago, Lotusfab said:

IMG_6300.thumb.JPG.d07c4b95d2a4dee7f7acf9a97fd500f1.JPGOil pipe still to fit. Slightly less sealant next time.

 

Thanks!  Good job I havn't adjusted it! Hopefully I would have checked the manual again before doing anything! IMG_6029.thumb.PNG.e9af13428c05b86e6d2b78cab3b483e1.PNG

Hi Fabian ,

I don't wish to interfere, but Just  small points i noted so was interested .  Did you decided or where you advised by your expert the above was not necessary on your particular engine  and if so why,  does that also apply to no apparent oil/ loctite on the MDH threads before torquing....  I only ask as many people will be using this as an instruction thread and you drew attention to it circa page 151 .    The oil and Loctite also applies to the big end bolts .. ?

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Good spot. Firstly, can I suggest no one uses this as a reference manual! Many of the things I have discussed and photograph have not been shown in detail before for one reason or another. I don't claim to have any more knowledge than anyone else. I use the Lotus manual firstly, then take advice from experts. Everything I have done on this project has been researched. There may be omissions or errors. Inevitable when many jobs are boing done by me and documented for the first time. I accept no liability for loss if you use this blog to assemble your Lotus. It's purely for fun.I suggest sticking to the Lotus manual!

Things like the pattern of sealant on the face of the block are not detailed anywhere. Also no experts have ever posted any detailed pictures, so this is my guess of where it should go. Copy it at your own risk, although I did post it so other people have some idea, I'm working from not a lot! We are of course being very pedantic on this thread. Engines are very robust and well designed. A little bit of permabond a few mm of centre will have little affect on the engine. The upside when you do everything your self is if at first it's no good you can just do it all again. As I have done many times on these projects.IMG_6033.thumb.JPG.b20ac04f5685ef0c1db01403df69f068.JPG

Dave and others thanks for keeping a watchful eye on this. This engine has been rebuilt before and very recently. Some things are done better than others.

The MBH bearing mod. As I assemble this engine I am learning a great deal. I believe some things in the Lotus manual are now outdated. It was written about 40 years ago after all. Look at this picture of my MBH. Look at the face below the no 5 bearing. It's flush and has no recesses. Look at the bearing mod page. You have guessed it this MBH is from a later series engine where Lotus have redesigned the MBH so there is sufficient lubrication without the mod. Also the bearing shell doesn't need a notch. 

There's no Loctite on any threads. The thread end  in the lower part of the  upper picture touched briefly on the A136 when I was aligning the MBH, just hadn't wiped  it off. 

Dave, what's your take on the crank shaft seals? Alignment tool or not? 

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