Esprit Turbo project car - part3 - the further continuation

[Fridge 977]

42 minutes ago, Chillidoggy said:

Northampton Motorsport also do geometry set-ups. Two birds with one stone!

There's your solution Fabian!

[drdoom 421]

3 hours ago, Lotusfab said:

I was thinking I should have published the cost of this as I went along. I think it would discourage quite a few from restoring. It is frightening how quickly costs escalate. 

My advice is buy the best possible one you can and just enjoy driving it knowing exactly how much you have paid. 

Fabian, your chronicle has been immensely helpful as is, no need to lift your skirt and reveal the financial cost of the program😆. Sufficient enough it is to stand as cautionary tale for any who'd look on with clear eyes from the off. On the other hand, we're all rather mad in our devotion to these wonders and may not be receptive to incursions of common sense. There's my confession.

 

[Lotusfab 3,220]

20 hours ago, Fridge said:

I'm no expert on setting suspension geometry, as I said, I just used the parallel method to obtain a basic alignment and for me assess what shims I was likely to require when done professionally.

However you don't just weight to obtain it's road (driving) weight, but to level the car. Looking at your rear suspension I suspect it needs to sit lower, but as I stated during your colour reference process, photos can be misleading.

I would seriously recommend you ask the rolling road place if they can recommend a place the sets up geometry. I may not be able to tell the difference between our S1s (though I suspect I could), but I certainly could tell the difference in mine.

Very annoying if marks made due to external work. After all the hours spent restoring these cars, as you mentioned earlier.

Some of the pictures of my car were done after the car had been jacked up. Heres one where it has been driven, look at the back wheel height and compare it to the arch. My entire suspension is new. The springs are also new as per the originals and I have factory rear shocks - no adjustment. I believe the rear height is correct and where it should be, Some of the well known pictures you see the car was weighted down to give it a lower stance. Heres a picture of the Bond ca4 and mine for comparison. Notice how high the front is sitting! 

I would say in these pics the rears are about the same height. If you look at the Bond film scene where he pulls up at the ice rink you will see the rear wheel is about where mine is. 

[Lotusfab 3,220]

Heres one where the car has been jacked up to align the decals and hasn’t settled back down.

[Andyww 1,291]

Yes that especially happens on the rear owing to the suspension design it goes ito massive camber when jacked up owing to the huge difference in upper vs lower link lengths.

Then when dropped down it cant reset owing to tyre friction on the ground.

[v8vantage 238]

I wouldn't worry about the ride height Fab, seems only one person on the forum fixated about it. Looks about the same as the Bond car in this pic.

 

[Lotusfab 3,220]

More ride height evidence

[Lotusfab 3,220]

my car in motion.

If you draw across the waistline trim I they look almost identical. 

[Lotusfab 3,220]

Heres a picture of a pristine dr6 sump you might know. Look at the suspension height.Think this proves conclusively that some of the stock photos have the car weighted down for the pictures.

[Andyww 1,291]

No doubt at all that some of the press shots either had weights or the rubber spring platforms removed. Anyway the figure is very clear in the manual, 170mm from bottom of cross member to ground for all Esprits. 

Unfortunately the lowest point on the Turbo is the bottom of the rad tray so lowering the car is a bit of a risk anyway.

[v8vantage 238]

I think you have pretty conclusive proof now Fab, there's nothing wrong with the ride height on your Esprit Turbo. Now if it looked like this I'd be mad!

 

[Fridge 977]

@Lotusfabif you catch the most recent episode of Salvage Hunters: Classic Cars it shows a late 50's car being aligned using the parallel string method, but also weighing the car at each corner. Though it only very briefly explains the more fundamental principles of why it's done. Worth watching.

[Lotusfab 3,220]

Thanks will have a look. 
 

[Sparky 2,863]

Almost missed this major milestone!  At 256 pages, this thread is arguably venturing beyond 8-bit.  Let's pray FabNet doesn't become self-aware.

[Fridge 977]

[Lotusfab 3,220]

I have finally reached the end of the journey with these cars. Its now only a matter of maintenance and tuning. I am now doing major building work on my house! When covid is over and we can travel I will be traveling to Cortina to finally draw a line under my Lotus journey. 
My issues started when I was 10 years old and the Spy Who Loved Me came out at the cinema! I can finally put this to rest having built two Bond cars, when I only really aspired to the S1. I shall enjoy driving them when we are allowed. The good news for you all is my wife assures me as soon as I cop it she will be selling both of them! 

[v8vantage 238]

9 minutes ago, Lotusfab said:

I have finally reached the end of the journey with these cars. Its now only a matter of maintenance and tuning. I am now doing major building work on my house! When covid is over and we can travel I will be traveling to Cortina to finally draw a line under my Lotus journey. 
My issues started when I was 10 years old and the Spy Who Loved Me came out at the cinema! I can finally put this to rest having built two Bond cars, when I only really aspired to the S1. I shall enjoy driving them when we are allowed. The good news for you all is my wife assures me as soon as I cop it she will be selling both of them! 

Well done Fab, been a great trip so far but the journey's not over until you remove the key for the final time. Would be great to see them some day when the world reopens. Be well and have a nice smug smile on your face for a job well done. 

[Lotusfab 3,220]

Thanks Roo. Look me up when you get over.

[Barrykearley 6,988]

2 hours ago, Lotusfab said:

The good news for you all is my wife assures me as soon as I cop it she will be selling both of them! 

Oooh for what you’ve told her you spent on them. Someone’s in for a bloody bargain 😬

[Lotusfab 3,220]

More ride height evidence!

[Fridge 977]

If you want to replicate the Bond Turbo then that's OK, but don't forget movie cars are props. Nothing more. Those used in car chases and the like are these days different cars, and set up accordingly.

You've already noticed that the still frame of the shot where the front of the car is in the bottom of the frame is a lot higher than in real life which sort of proves my point. Though grip probably just used a brick (the film industry is very practical!). In the same way actors stand on apple boxes regularly to achieve the right framing.

I still maintain that if you had your car weighed at a profession outfit it would look different. Though I note that many Turbo Esprits look very different from their correctly set-up S1 counterparts. Perhaps as a result of tyre choice or whatever.

You didn't answer my question whether you'd fitted aftermarket shock absorbers, such as the Pro-techs on the S1. I tried setting mine to match the cup position of the original Lotus ones, and they were wildly wrong. Even asking others how many threads their cars had showing. I did it by eye, and measurement of the underside before getting it done on a rig, and it did require further adjustment.

Just sayin' Fab. It's your car.

Edited January 21 by Fridge

[Matt-watts 121]

I haven't read this blog (as i'm not really into turbos) but knowing you and having seen how well you did on your S1 Esprit  and the pictures of this finished car it looks a really lovely job, I think we both strive for some kind of perfection and its lovely to see how so very very close you have got to perfection. My hat is off to you buddy, well done.

Matt

[Lotusfab 3,220]

1 hour ago, Fridge said:

If you want to replicate the Bond Turbo then that's OK, but don't forget movie cars are props. Nothing more. Those used in car chases and the like are these days different cars, and set up accordingly.

You've already noticed that the still frame of the shot where the front of the car is in the bottom of the frame is a lot higher than in real life which sort of proves my point. Though grip probably just used a brick (the film industry is very practical!). In the same way actors stand on apple boxes regularly to achieve the right framing.

I still maintain that if you had your car weighed at a profession outfit it would look different. Though I note that many Turbo Esprits look very different from their correctly set-up S1 counterparts. Perhaps as a result of tyre choice or whatever.

You didn't answer my question whether you'd fitted aftermarket shock absorbers, such as the Pro-techs on the S1. I tried setting mine to match the cup position of the original Lotus ones, and they were wildly wrong. Even asking others how many threads their cars had showing. I did it by eye, and measurement of the underside before getting it done on a rig, and it did require further adjustment.

Just sayin' Fab. It's your car.

The S1 sits a lot lower than the turbo at the rear. On the Turbo I was meticulous. The entire suspension is dry sump. The springs and shocks are new and factory correct. For those that don’t know the dry sump trailing arms, upper lower links and hubs are different to the wet sump. I have seen many cars that appear to sit lower, but the movie pictures all appear to be about the same height as mine and the cars were new when the film was made. I know for a fact in some pictures the car has been weighted down. All I can conclude is some other cars are sitting lower than they were when they left the factory because they have been intentionally lowered, have different shocks or the springs have weakened over the last 40 years. The S1 sits far lower for sure.

[v8vantage 238]

6 hours ago, Lotusfab said:

Love this picture Fab, you car looks absolutely perfect. Shame someone keeps flogging the dead horse about ride heights! Maybe having 1 pair of skis fitted has altered the weighting somehwat.

[Lotusfab 3,220]

Split rim wheels

I have taken these apart and reassembled them more times than I care to count due to a split in a tyre, changing tyres and changing lips. I have learned a lot and now have a rebuild system that doesn’t leak! I had a vibration at 55 mph through the steering wheel and despite having my wheels balanced it was still there! I decided to get to the bottom of it and took the front wheels to Voodoo motorsport. I would highly recommend them if you don’t wish to get involved with rebuilding the wheels. They found a very slight bend in the lip 1.5 mm. Thats not much on a split rim. They also found out the balance was off by 5 grams. They rebalanced the wheels I brought them home and tried it out, perfect! I learned from this, some garages can’t balance wheels! 
I decided to rebuild the wheel again, as I like things to be spot on. This time I removed the front brake calliper, took the tyre off and spun the wheel centre up on my front hub with a dial gauge to check trueness. I found the barrel was very slightly bent as well! I didn’t think to check this when I made the wheels, as I had no spare parts. Luckily I have now got some spares. Voodoo can straighten bends with some limits, but as I have spares I decided to switch them out.
After testing new barrels and lips I have found a pair that are spot on. I need to get the lip polished and then reassemble. I found a company that can anodise, which was the original finish. I may anodise all of them in the future.
I have done some research and found out Hunter make a balancing machine they call elite Road Force. It balances the wheel under load with a roller that creates a 1200 lb force. Trouble is hardly anyone has them. I found a place in Chingford London and Twickenham. The Twickenham garage wants £270 for four wheels. I am going to get them balanced using this machine as the Esprit is very sensitive to wheel balance. It should be ultra smooth after this is done.

Be very careful with bolt torques when you assemble these wheels. You have to use 6 mm bolts that have the correct tensile strength. 8.8 grade is useless. You need 12 grade ideally. Then nyloc nuts only come in 10 grade. Then you need to look up torque tables for the tensile strength and bolt diameter. Be very careful not to overtighten as this could result in wheel failure. 
I use a 4 mm rubber cord cut and superglued at the end to make the seal. New seal for every rebuild. I use Sikaflex 221 to seal them. Very very slight bead on the very edge outside of the rubber on the centre bit. When they are bolted up I smear a band of sealant about 1 1/4 inch wide around the centre overlapping the joins, edges kept sharp with masking tape and pulled off immediately after sealant is applied. This band must overlap the joins and the inside, where the sealant is applied, must be spotlessly cleaned and grease free-I use brake cleaner. Then leave them for 24 hrs before replacing the tyre and inflating. No more than 40 psi to seat the tyre with lots of sugar soap. Ideally less than 30 psi. 
Dynamic balance once the tyre is on.

It has taken me quite a while to learn how to assemble these wheels. I don’t get leaks. When the centre band is on the air pressure forces the sealant into the joints, so it cant leak. Unless of course you haven’t cleaned the inside properly. In this case the band detaches and the air will get behind it and exit through the bolt holes around the bolts.

 

The BBS wheels are far superior engineering wise, but I think most will agree the compomotives are stunning and worth the hassle!