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Komotec 460 or SSC TVS1900?


Komotec 460 or SSC TVS1900 Ugrade?  

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I too am considering charge cooled TVS1900 options through either Back On Track, Hoffman’s or Komotec. 

@alias23 Is accurate with pricing, you are unlikely to see any change from £16k fully fitted. 

If you are not planning on tracking the car that much, you might be better off with the non cooled version circa £6000 fitted. This would be ample power for the road plus give plenty of more expensive cars a run for their money. 

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37 minutes ago, alias23 said:

If your buying for track my recommendation would first be spend a year and money on tuition. 

 

Thanks for advice all will mull it over. I don’t want to jump to the 430 price wise if I was doing that would just pay the bit extra and go Lambo or McLaren.

I would NEVER spend anymore than £75k on a lotus I think anyone who does it a bit mental (and I do love them).

On this one nope see my post not for track.

Ive done a few Porsche tuition days and am booked onto the 3 day Lotus academy’s but if I was a regular tracker it would be done in a ‘proper’ track car.

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1 hour ago, GFWilliams said:

380 charger isn’t at it’s limit. 460 is at the limit, as proved by the fact the KT460 kit exists.

Non CC TVS1900 makes no sense. Requires more energy to power it, produces more heat (although many say it won’t with no facts because they were told it by a salesman), costs a lot of money, and ultimately doesn’t have a charge cooler, so only so much you could turn up the power. Also requires manifolds/sports cat/intake to actually produce more power. Risk of damaging the standard cats without changing this.  I’m still yet to see a dyno run from a non CC TVS1900 car, just owners saying it pulls well...

Charge cooled TVS1900 is great if you want more than 460hp. If you don’t, then save your money and do 460 with Komo-etc.  Worth noting that the SSC CC’d TVS1900 cools the whole supercharger and the air, which is a better solution than the Komo-Tec 460 kit which just cools the air.  Having said that, I can do consistent lap times on track, so heat soak doesn’t seem to be an issue for me.

Eta - better to just sell your car and buy a 410 or 430 IMO.

Interested in your 430 comment. Out of interest how come you didn’t sell yours given you must have spent fortune on what as a standard V6s and as the blue car shows the Komotoec 460 used adds little to no value? (And costs a fair bit in labour to revert back?)

Edited by rafphillips
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If not for track then I personally don’t see the need for a charge cooled system.

On the road your not on any high boost for any longer periods of time just by nature of road vs say track.

Therefore I’d say go non cooled Harrop or KT 390/410. You won’t be reaching any limits on the road so shouldn’t be worried about KT and OEM charger in my opinion.

www.alias23.com

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41 minutes ago, rafphillips said:

Interested in your 430 comment. Out of interest how come you didn’t sell yours given you must have spent fortune on what as a standard V6s and as the blue car shows the Komotoec 460 used adds little to no value? (And costs a fair bit in labour to revert back?)

Quite simple really, the 430 Cup came out after I finished my car.

If the 430 Cup was at the price it is now, before I tuned my car, I’d probably have bought one.  The 430 Cup is lighter than my car, has a better gear linkage and has a bit of aero, which would all be nice, but I’d be wanting to put an LSD in, make the interior as nice as I have on my car.  Added to that, I still much prefer the front clam of the Exige S, and then the cost to upgrade to a 430, and I don’t think it’d be worth it for me.  Oh, and now KT have bought out power packs for a 430 Cup, I’d want to do that too, so costs get silly.

Financially, buying a 430/410 and leaving it standard is the better thing to do than tune a car.  I like a project though, and if I hadn’t tuned my car, I’d probably be a Porsche owner now...

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37 minutes ago, GFWilliams said:

 

Financially, buying a 430/410 and leaving it standard is the better thing to do than tune a car.  I like a project though, and if I hadn’t tuned my car, I’d probably be a Porsche owner now...

I thought long and hard about a 430 but came to several conclusions....

i) I don't want another mega write down after a few months like I suffered with the 380. Look at Tex's (I think its his) 430 Cup that's up for sale.

ii) 430 Cup Is just TOO expensive when compared to my 380 based on (i) above.

iii) For under £10K I have a proven, reliable, seriously quick piece of kit, which in every area would probably out perform a 430. Ask @GFWilliams and I'm sure he would agree.

You need to try a Ex460 and the TVS installs then decide

Just my 2p worth.

cheers

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21 hours ago, GFWilliams said:

Non CC TVS1900 makes no sense. Requires more energy to power it, produces more heat (although many say it won’t with no facts because they were told it by a salesman), costs a lot of money, and ultimately doesn’t have a charge cooler, so only so much you could turn up the power. Also requires manifolds/sports cat/intake to actually produce more power. Risk of damaging the standard cats without changing this.  I’m still yet to see a dyno run from a non CC TVS1900 car, just owners saying it pulls well...

The TVS1900 has its advantages as it’s a good power upgrade which is a simple bolt on/bolt off and tune. 

It produces less heat than the stock supercharger, but more than a CC’d komotec car obviously. 

It doesn’t require manifolds and new cats to provide more power.

The dynos are out there, I’ve seen them on this forum multiple times. Just over 400 calculated engine power, with a big bump in torque. So you get a simple solution with a decent power increase which doesn’t involve installing charge coolers or routing a water cooler radiator to the front.

It may suit some people not others: for example, mainly road use, occasional track, and may want to easily convert back to stock.

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2 minutes ago, BfranklynV6 said:

The TVS1900 has its advantages as it’s a good power upgrade which is a simple bolt on/bolt off and tune. 

It produces less heat than the stock supercharger, but more than a CC’d komotec car obviously. 

It doesn’t require manifolds and new cats to provide more power.

The dynos are out there, I’ve seen them on this forum multiple times. Just over 400 calculated engine power, with a big bump in torque. So you get a simple solution with a decent power increase which doesn’t involve installing charge coolers or routing a water cooler radiator to the front.

It may suit some people not others: for example, mainly road use, occasional track, and may want to easily convert back to stock.

With respect, the TVS1900 which isn't charge cooled should be compared to the Komo-tec ex430 kit, which also isn't charge cooled.  They're both similar prices I believe, and considering it only takes a day to fit, I'd imagine it'd be the same to put back to stock at the end.

I am pretty sure the 430 kit has less heat in the engine bay as the cats are moved away from the engine, and replaced with a high flow sports cat lower down, near to the backbox. 

I'd love to know where the claim of less heat comes from and if there's any proof, or if it's salesman talk from Hoffmans?   A larger supercharger requires more energy to power it, and also has more "work done". This work done produces heat, so if there's more work done, there will be more heat. Only difference is that the bigger supercharger has a slightly larger surface area to dictate heat.

So basically, it's no more bolt on/bolt off than a KT430, it very likely actually produces more heat (IMO until proven otherwise), it produces less power, and I believe costs a little more?

For the record, my first experience of Komo-tec wasn't particularly positive, I turned up having emailed ahead and driven several hours, and got told I'd have to wait a few hours to even see them. It was an unfortunate first experience, and not representative of what is actually a very good company, but it meant I thought long and hard as to whether I wanted to spend my money with that company.  I researched the options available for more power and to me the 460 kit was the best solution available on the market.  I went there tempted to so an ex390 or 410 and came away then committed to the 460.  I believe today, as a proven solution (I've done 20k miles with the 460 kit now), it's the best out there.

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For anyone interested the chargecooled fully fitted price is ~ £12.5k inc VAT.

Bit too rich for me as would want some other bits done same time as would wipe out all my budget but will deffo be keeping an eye out for any deals on them as what ever has been said it’s clear the standard supercharger close to limit from a the techical data I have read.

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2 hours ago, rafphillips said:

For anyone interested the chargecooled fully fitted price is ~ £12.5k inc VAT.

Bit too rich for me as would want some other bits done same time as would wipe out all my budget but will deffo be keeping an eye out for any deals on them as what ever has been said it’s clear the standard supercharger close to limit from a the techical data I have read.

Whats included in that £12.5K?

Manifolds, Dowpipe, Cats, New ECU? 

www.alias23.com

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Mapped as well? There is not enough transparency on this route for my liking.

KT have it all so clearly laid out, output figures, drive in drive out price with all the parts listed.

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4 hours ago, rafphillips said:

For anyone interested the chargecooled fully fitted price is ~ £12.5k inc VAT.

Bit too rich for me as would want some other bits done same time as would wipe out all my budget but will deffo be keeping an eye out for any deals on them as what ever has been said it’s clear the standard supercharger close to limit from a the techical data I have read.

Sorry that is the chargecooled TVS1900 with fitting and remap “drive in drive out” as they put it. Headers and cats would be extra on top.

Its too pricey for what you get IMHO, need a better exhange rate GBP > AUD.

And or someone friendly to write down invoice value on a (cough) “used” one.

As neither an option currently I’ll wait for a bit. The 380 isn’t exactly slow for road use.

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I'd personally negotiate direct purchase of chargecooled TVS1900 (~£7,000), get Motec ECU with all the sensors (~£3,500) and install/map those myself or get help from someone smart (~£2,000). All in all not much different from Komotec business in terms of cost or power to start with, but much more exciting and with massive potential. :thumbup:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Will SSC Aus sell us the kit directly? Or does it have to be through Hoffman’s? If so my plan is to buy and install, along with Komotec headers and downpipe then get a custom ECU and tune done. Either Motec or another third party ECU.

Recently returned from Ascari and Portimao, had a ride in a friends Exige 350 with TVS1900 installed and the pulling power was massive over my stock 350. Out of the corners there was much greater urgency and it kept pulling hard along the straights where mine was running out of puff pretty early. The EX460 must feel like being strapped to a missile. Hopefully I can achieve the same with the above. 

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Yes, I think that you can. But for the hassle of shipping, delivery and duty, why not just buy the kit direct from Hoffman’s? I’m pretty sure that @Randy will offer you a non-installed, non-warrantied price. 

(Also, the general consensus seems to be that if you’re planning on tracking your car regularly, it’s worth going for the charge cooled version of either the TVS1900 or the KT kit). 

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On 13/04/2019 at 09:49, W31SSN said:

Will SSC Aus sell us the kit directly? Or does it have to be through Hoffman’s? If so my plan is to buy and install, along with Komotec headers and downpipe then get a custom ECU and tune done. Either Motec or another third party ECU.

Recently returned from Ascari and Portimao, had a ride in a friends Exige 350 with TVS1900 installed and the pulling power was massive over my stock 350. Out of the corners there was much greater urgency and it kept pulling hard along the straights where mine was running out of puff pretty early. The EX460 must feel like being strapped to a missile. Hopefully I can achieve the same with the above. 

Yes they would ;) they would also send what ou need to remap it I think ;) 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Are there any official/verified figures for how much weight the KT460 kit adds over standard, and vs the non-cooled TVS1900?

Presumably the charged cooled TVS1900 adds a similar amount of weight as the KT460, if not slightly more given the larger size?

Just curious as there seems to be a lot of focus on how much power/torque can be extracted from the various systems without any discussion as regards to weight - which is very un-Lotus!

I have the KT370 intake and tune, plus the 2bular track silencer now on my car, with the rest of the 2bular EPK waiting to be installed once I decide exactly what route I am going to go down. Currently moving towards the non CC TVS1900 option given simplicity, incremental cost, power and weight factors.

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Komotec website states a minimum weight addition of 4.6kg excluding water. I would think the SSC charge cooled is probably 8-12kg excluding fluids. Non CC TVS1900 has a shipping weight of 19kg, no idea how much a stock supercharger weighs.

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4 hours ago, W31SSN said:

Komotec website states a minimum weight addition of 4.6kg excluding water. I would think the SSC charge cooled is probably 8-12kg excluding fluids. Non CC TVS1900 has a shipping weight of 19kg, no idea how much a stock supercharger weighs.

I would imagine that the water weight is also fairly significant, isn’t it?

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