free hit
counters
Lotus Exige Sport 380 - Page 42 - V6 Exige Chat - The Lotus Forums Jump to content


Lotus Exige Sport 380


Recommended Posts

The story would be put to a rest definitely when Lotus brings the S, Cup, 350, 360 Cup, 380 and 380 Cup to the Ring or whatever / wherever track in the UK,  for juste ONE day and do a big comparison test... like the ones motorsport magazines do.....I'm sure they'd even find clients willing to lend their cars to do that.....they could insure the car and provide some warranty extension ....they could even crowd fund the event, have it co-sponsored..... whatever.... be creative....but adding that to the return to the USA and the positive bottom line gives them enough work already......so we'll be waiting

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.
  • Replies 1.3k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Finally arrived at the dealer. Now waiting for pick up on 26/3 (business trip  ) Union Jack needs still to be placed as well as alcantara steering wheel and titanium exhaust. This is sent seperat

Well, almost there. No delivery date but I have to say this is looking like the dogs wotsits... Not sure what the net thing is in the boot? haven't/don't recall seeing that before.. And I ev

Ok here are my thoughts...please excuse writing style /ramblings.  I'd turned into a stuttering idiot by the time I'd got out of the car    Lotus Exige Sport 380   As I'm

Posted Images

What would be the point in that, they have their own test track they release lap times for. 

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bibs said:

What would be the point in that, they have their own test track they release lap times for. 

Because every piston nuthead knows where the Nurburgring is and it has become THE REFERENCE for sports cars...... every manufacturers does it for a purpose..... Porsche has it's tracks too (Leipzig, Weissach, etc....)  and still........extensively test its cars on the ring.......you can go there almost anytime and see a "P" mule running around like crazy......  To me Nurburgring is not a must, it could be Brands Hatch, Silverstone, whatever track with a status.... and with a proper comparison test and the communication which comes with it..... If this wasn't helpful marketing and sale's wise, all the car manufacturers would have stopped doing it..... and it's rather the contrary happening, even hot hatches like the Honda Civic Typ R are coming now......

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Swiss360Cup said:

Because every piston nuthead knows where the Nurburgring is and it has become THE REFERENCE for sports cars...... every manufacturers does it for a purpose..... Porsche has it's tracks too (Leipzig, Weissach, etc....)  and still........extensively test its cars on the ring.......you can go there almost anytime and see a "P" mule running around like crazy......  To me Nurburgring is not a must, it could be Brands Hatch, Silverstone, whatever track with a status.... and with a proper comparison test and the communication which comes with it..... If this wasn't helpful marketing and sale's wise, all the car manufacturers would have stopped doing it..... and it's rather the contrary happening, even hot hatches like the Honda Civic Typ R are coming now......

And its all academic..... Despite what we are told many cars are 'prepared for a ring lap'

Very very few owners will ever get there cars to the same lap times as the professional test drivers

Basically lap times around the ring  its corporate willy waving

I couldn't give two hoots about those lap times

I love my car for what it is and don't care which other manufacturers cars are faster to 60 or have a higher top speed of are quicker in the corners....

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe but it's become a reference benchmark in the auto industry, and you can't just dismiss the benchmarks by saying it's all B-S.....And it's also a great playground for the development of the car dynamics in very demanding situations... why do think all the big manufacturers do that though they all have their own tracks... they could use it as reference and marketing tools..... they don't...... and everybody says that those who don't come are afraid their cars would be good against the competition...that's simply the way it is, like it or not..... useful or not.... interesting or not....

Link to post
Share on other sites

But as I said before since we're talking about the Sport 380...nobody knows how much better the car is against the 350..and if it's worth the investment... and unfortunately people would like to know.....maybe the best would be to change customers, not tracks...... for me they could do it at Hethel, or anywhere else, but communicate it properly....just saying it's that faster than the other, is same B-S than going around the Nurburgring.....expect that at the Ring everybody can see you..... when at Hethel, they might even do it on a computer without anybody noticing.....

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 13 May 2017 at 09:27, The Pits said:

I am keen to find some evidence to support my view that the 380 is faster than the 350 cars. Of course it would be great if Lotus could supply some comparison data or a car magazine to organize a track comparison. I'm still waiting for Sport 380 vs Cayman GT4. I'd like to organize one myself for TLF but that relies very heavily on the generosity of an owner or dealer.

For what it's worth I think it's more that the 350 is a strong package. I've written many times on here that I believe the 350 cars offer the best value, that's still the case. The 350 spec cars at Brands Hatch last week were all very fast and compared well to the other cars on track. They always do.

Until then, the best evidence I can find are these top speed videos. Not concrete proof by any means, different weather conditions, air pressure, the list goes on. But a decent indication broadly inline with expectations. The cars have different aero packages but we have to go with Lotus's claim that drag has not been increased on the 380. The 380 has a small torque increase but a significant power increase so top speed is where it should tell.

Both cars claim to reach 275km/h, OMG it's all true, just marketing, total rip off!!! But look closer and you'll see that the 350 car doesn't actually hit 275kmh and that's on the speedo. The 380's 275kmh is GPS verified. It also looks a lot more stable than I think my car ever would at that speed!

Then look at the rpm being pulled. The 350 car can't quite pull 6,000rpm on this run. The 380 pulls clearly past 6000rpm in top, almost to 6500rpm. You can't do that unless you have more power. We can't see the 380's speedo but with the same gearing it must have been showing over 275kmh on the speedo. If anyone here has gone faster than 270kmh in a 350 then that would be good to know. I've never been over 240kmh in my car. I know, may as well have got a Roadster!

Maybe @Jokke Vlo we could find a means to compare our cars straight line performance. How about a video (just of the clocks) of our cars accelerating from 2000rpm in 2nd to the top of 4th gear? I'll do the same in mine, we can compare back here.

Is it actually worth comparing the 380 to a GT4?  Surely the 380 will utterly spank it, same power and 200kg less to lug around?  Happy to bring the Cayman R along to a track day?  It's on MPSC2 and is around 1300kg with around 340bhp?  I'd still expect to get spanked though ;-)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure about being utterly spanked but yes I would hope a fully functional Sport 380 would be quicker. But this gets us back to the popular internet view that the Exige is broken and the Cayman GT4 is magic and can defy the laws of physics.

Maybe with Tim's very generous offer we could organise up a TLF comparison? The trouble is, I think it's one of those issues where some group of people will say it's BS, whatever the results. If the Sport 380 is quicker there will be accusations of TLF bias. If the Cayman GT4 is quicker there will be accusations of Lotus lying about power output and all the rest.

I would like to do a proper analysis of the Exige's unassisted steering versus the Cayman's EPAS in the wet and dry, on road and track, again something no magazine has done.

The more immediate issue is to work out why the 380 engine has so far produced disappointing results for Jokke and Sport Auto. I still don't see winning the lap battle as any great failure, it's more the claimed 0-200kph time being 3 seconds slower than the '350' V6. The 380 I drove felt clearly faster to me so I would like to get back in one and record some comparison video against my 345bhp car.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, The Pits said:

I'm not sure about being utterly spanked but yes I would hope a fully functional Sport 380 would be quicker. But this gets us back to the popular internet view that the Exige is broken and the Cayman GT4 is magic and can defy the laws of physics.

Maybe with Tim's very generous offer we could organise up a TLF comparison? The trouble is, I think it's one of those issues where some group of people will say it's BS, whatever the results. If the Sport 380 is quicker there will be accusations of TLF bias. If the Cayman GT4 is quicker there will be accusations of Lotus lying about power output and all the rest.

I would like to do a proper analysis of the Exige's unassisted steering versus the Cayman's EPAS in the wet and dry, on road and track, again something no magazine has done.

The more immediate issue is to work out why the 380 engine has so far produced disappointing results for Jokke and Sport Auto. I still don't see winning the lap battle as any great failure, it's more the claimed 0-200kph time being 3 seconds slower than the '350' V6. The 380 I drove felt clearly faster to me so I would like to get back in one and record some comparison video against my 345bhp car.

I drove a 350 and a 380 fairly recently and the 380 was definitely faster.  Both cars were quick but the 380 definitely felt quicker and noticeably so.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

Why don't 4 or 5 of you hire Blyton Park for the day, take along a VBox and settle the argument?  

Because all the drivers would not be the same, unless a professional was hired. I certainly would not let someone thrape my car for free just to please a few who NEEEEED to know

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm starting to lose interest. There's a new GT4 on the way, so it will all start again. And again be meaningless because only the Porsche favourites will get to buy one anyway.

And anyway we all know the Elise Cup is the fastest of the lot :)

  • Like 1

Lotus Register - https://www.lotusregister.com

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just looking at the laptime from that Hockenheimring piece (sounds painful) and the GT4 , 380 Sport  and Camaro Z28 all lap the same.......Camaro FTW yeehaa  

  • Like 1

Black n gold

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good idea Robbie. You hire Blyton Park, we'll take care of the rest! ;)

I certainly think heatsoak is a more likely cause of Jokke's and Sport Auto's results. It's massively more plausible than the suggestion that it's all 'marketing' and that Lotus are trying to trick their customers. Also massively easier to believe than the reason suggested by a certain exhaust maker who laid all the blame on the factory exhaust. To be honest it's a real cheap shot by him to jump in and blame the exhaust for this 'wall'. He has gone down in my estimation as a result. :thumbdown:

Heatsoak is also consistent with my experience of the car feeling ballistic on a cold day. It's also consistent with the claim that the car makes more power. More power = more heat = more heatsoak. The engine will pull the timing back to what the engine can handle which happens to be closer to the 350 level - exactly what the Komotec 430 car I was following at Spa did. This would also explain Jokke's data. The Komotec car I followed also supports the theory that the supercharger is being over worked. If the 380 gets heatsoak then the 430 will suffer even more. That also appears to be the case, although why Komotec don't get criticised for this I will never know. If Lotus's 380 marketing is misleading then Komotec's 430 is worse.

However the thing that doesn't fit so well with the theory are Jokke's 430 numbers. Different days sure, but the 430 is hitting much higher speeds. I also don't think heatsoak can explain 3 seconds slower than a 350ps Exige to 200kph. We have no idea what they were doing to the car before the test but if it was heatsoak wouldn't it just pull the timing back to nearer the 350ps level, not all the way back to 310ps or whatever would make 0-200kph in 12.9 secs.

I really need to get hold of a Sport 380 for the day. It does directly affect me because I want a 380 Cup but for £85k I will want to see a significant reduction in laptimes compared to my current car. My V6 Cup has, to be honest, exceeded my expectations, still feels completely on the pace four years later and I still think the Cup cars have the edge over the Sport 350s. So I believe that Lotus will deliver again. But I would really like to get to the bottom of this mystery before I take the plunge. Water injection option please Lotus or do something clever with the air con that we're all obliged to order!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, I didn't explain very well.  The debate mostly seems to be about the power train not overall lap times, even with different drivers there will be enough overlap on the long(ish) straights to determine differences between cars irrespective of driver.  It was just a thought, I'll shut up now!

Thanks Jonny, I'll definitely keep my mouth shut now!

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, The Pits said:

Also massively easier to believe than the reason suggested by a certain exhaust maker who laid all the blame on the factory exhaust. To be honest it's a real cheap shot by him to jump in and blame the exhaust for this 'wall'. He has gone down in my estimation as a result. :thumbdown:

@The Pits I think you have the wrong end of the stick there. The well know TUNER said it dropped power when the valve opened and allegedly produced the dyno sheets, NOT the exhaust supplier, sorry to correct you on that. :ermm:

I also think a few people on here know who that tuner is. Anyway, I suppose its speculation at the moment.

I just hope my soon to arrive 380 isn't a disappointment, then again I'm no track monster chasing something I don't have the skill to operate at the limits. I just love Lotus cars, always have, always will; it was a childhood thing.

cheers

Mark

Link to post
Share on other sites

@RobbieB I would love to get all the Lotus models to a track for a proper comparison. Can't think of many better ways to spend a day actually, it's just a very substantial cost that TLF would never see back. You're talking about more than £10k for the day once the cars have got through fuel, tyres, insurance and to film it professionally would cost the same again. That's not something you can give away for free on the internet. Everyone knows this is the best Lotus forum on the web anyway, so no benefit there either. ;) We could do a half decent amateur job between us but the cost of exclusive track hire just rules it out at the present time.

A better option might be a TLF exclusive trackday where everyone shares the cost, might be something for the future?

Apologies @Mark030358 if it was the tuner not the exhaust bender but he has created a popular internet story around the bore of the factory exhaust being too big, hopeless, a disaster and so on. Complications with dyno tests are well known with the V6 cars, it's opportunistic at best to lay the blame on the exhaust.

Sorry for you to have to read all this negative stuff about what must be your most exciting new car ever. I'm sure you will love it, the vast majority of new owners appear to love theirs. I see posts from delighted new owners, many new to Lotus, on Facebook every week. Be sure to let us know how you get on.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

But the exhaust guy is saying the same thing as the tuner you mention - perhaps he's just repeating what he's heard form the tuner - I assume that's the case.  There's a thread on PH about it which includes pics of the standard 380 exhaust, which (and as a 380 owner it pains me to say it) do not look great - exhaust looks of questionable quality.  But then it sounds amazing, so as far as road work goes, I don't really care enough to change it. 

As for the slow 100-200kmh figure mentioned here, I can only think the car was not performing properly. Mine feels ballistic in the gears.  I've got a Vbox mini which I could use to get some figures eventually, but the car's not yet at 1,000 miles and I'd prefer to leave it until after that service.  That said, one set of figures in isolation wouldn't mean much.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, The Pits said:

Apologies @Mark030358 if it was the tuner not the exhaust bender but he has created a popular internet story around the bore of the factory exhaust being too big, hopeless, a disaster and so on. Complications with dyno tests are well known with the V6 cars, it's opportunistic at best to lay the blame on the exhaust.

Sorry for you to have to read all this negative stuff about what must be your most exciting new car ever. I'm sure you will love it, the vast majority of new owners appear to love theirs. I see posts from delighted new owners, many new to Lotus, on Facebook every week. Be sure to let us know how you get on.

I'm sure it will be fine :) and no need to apologise.

This is a great forum for information, help and debate, probably the best I've been on for Lotus. And to be honest there is nothing better than being passionate in what you believe. Nothing worse than going somewhere just for lame comments or to get your post "score" up. One forum for the older Lotus cars I visit has lost a lot of the really good posters for those very reasons.

Keep up the good work!!

cheers

Mark

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Lotus' fear is that with the higher power output, you would significantly reduce the longevity of the engine and gearbox. 

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, The Pits said:

@RobbieB I would love to get all the Lotus models to a track for a proper comparison. Can't think of many better ways to spend a day actually, it's just a very substantial cost that TLF would never see back. You're talking about more than £10k for the day once the cars have got through fuel, tyres, insurance and to film it professionally would cost the same again. That's not something you can give away for free on the internet. Everyone knows this is the best Lotus forum on the web anyway, so no benefit there either. ;) We could do a half decent amateur job between us but the cost of exclusive track hire just rules it out at the present time.

A better option might be a TLF exclusive trackday where everyone shares the cost, might be something for the future?

I can likely assist with professional filming, editing, production, and PR. 

The idea of a TLF exclusive track day sounds an excellent idea. 

  • Like 1

www.alias23.com

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...