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Lotus Exige Sport 380


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Read what I said already all the time pls. If you don't believe me now I am out of arguments !

It is time to see proof it has the promised power then !

- my feeling from the beginning

- trackdata

- test against BMW M4 cabrio

- test in magazines

and now this proof.

if you don't believe me by know......

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Finally arrived at the dealer. Now waiting for pick up on 26/3 (business trip  ) Union Jack needs still to be placed as well as alcantara steering wheel and titanium exhaust. This is sent seperat

Well, almost there. No delivery date but I have to say this is looking like the dogs wotsits... Not sure what the net thing is in the boot? haven't/don't recall seeing that before.. And I ev

Ok here are my thoughts...please excuse writing style /ramblings.  I'd turned into a stuttering idiot by the time I'd got out of the car    Lotus Exige Sport 380   As I'm

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15 minutes ago, NW76 said:

Pretty clear for me as well ... 

Sadly it's not clear for me.

Different drivers of different abilities in different days with different temps etc etc etc

Not saying that they do make 380hp, but it's all from different place and non is scientific. 

I've seen so many dyno plots from various places all saying different things. Data from an ECU is merely that, data, it cannot tell you how good the driver was or how hard he was trying.

Like comparing cars to each other on track. There are so many variables it almost becomes pointless. Tyres and tyre pressure, geo settings, dampers and spring rates. Driver ability etc etc.

A small increase in exit speed makes a massive difference at the end of the next straight. Heard it many times when racing, your car must have more power than mine, it's so quick in a straight line. Then we look at the data and it's corner entry/ exit speed

So for me it's all a bit internet info so it must be true

Yes it may be a car that doesn't perform as expected but there are sooooooooo many reasons why this may be the case, not just engine output on a given day/ dyno

I am clearly in a minority so I will give up now....

Cheers

 

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Looking forward to see how it goes in your hands with the 460 upgrade..... and tests after the upgrade on the same dyno.

cheers

 

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Can someone test one and take into account slew rate?

I bet the difference in recorded vs what Lotus say is down to something called “slew rate”. I am indebted to Paul Cronin (sometime PPC contributor) for the info on slew rates and how the Industry tests their engines. If the engine is accelerating, some of the engine power goes into driving the flywheel, crankshaft, dyno shaft, etc. This reduces the power available at the load cell on the dyno. Once the engine stops accelerating the power goes up because the losses from accelerating the engine are no longer there. In the motor industry the norm is to hold the load until everything has stabilised and then record the power. A step test in fact with about 30 seconds between steps.

Due to the charger on these engines, I bet lotus accelerate the engine before adding the load, getting a higher bhp ready than a normal run up run.

Edited by Waitey
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1 hour ago, Seriouslylotus said:

Sadly it's not clear for me.

Different drivers of different abilities in different days with different temps etc etc etc

Not saying that they do make 380hp, but it's all from different place and non is scientific. 

I've seen so many dyno plots from various places all saying different things. Data from an ECU is merely that, data, it cannot tell you how good the driver was or how hard he was trying.

Like comparing cars to each other on track. There are so many variables it almost becomes pointless. Tyres and tyre pressure, geo settings, dampers and spring rates. Driver ability etc etc.

A small increase in exit speed makes a massive difference at the end of the next straight. Heard it many times when racing, your car must have more power than mine, it's so quick in a straight line. Then we look at the data and it's corner entry/ exit speed

So for me it's all a bit internet info so it must be true

Yes it may be a car that doesn't perform as expected but there are sooooooooo many reasons why this may be the case, not just engine output on a given day/ dyno

I am clearly in a minority so I will give up now....

Cheers

 

Let's stick with the logic above...

With that logic, HTF can Lotus EVER declare 350/360/380 on the backs of their cars then? They can't because you say it's  so subjective to the driver/conditions/whether a flea farted in the pit lane of the test track

The same applies to other brands, surely?

Cars can and are dyno'd - our placcy tubs are nothing special.

Edited by cbaileyuk
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1 hour ago, Seriouslylotus said:

Sadly it's not clear for me.

Different drivers of different abilities in different days with different temps etc etc etc

Not saying that they do make 380hp, but it's all from different place and non is scientific. 

In this way pretty much nothing will ever be "scientific". So far what makes me wonder is how RWD 1,200kg (with driver) 380bhp car can only do 0-100/100-200 with the times pretty much on par with full-time 4WD 1,550kg (with driver) ~350bhp car? All this really sounds odd. I am looking forward to get hold of my own Sport 350 (after perhaps correctly deciding to not go with anything more than 350) and see what the real numbers are, but so far all the pieces of information paint a picture that looks rather unusual.

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3 hours ago, Seriouslylotus said:

Sadly it's not clear for me.

Different drivers of different abilities in different days with different temps etc etc etc

Not saying that they do make 380hp, but it's all from different place and non is scientific. 

I've seen so many dyno plots from various places all saying different things. Data from an ECU is merely that, data, it cannot tell you how good the driver was or how hard he was trying.

Like comparing cars to each other on track. There are so many variables it almost becomes pointless. Tyres and tyre pressure, geo settings, dampers and spring rates. Driver ability etc etc.

A small increase in exit speed makes a massive difference at the end of the next straight. Heard it many times when racing, your car must have more power than mine, it's so quick in a straight line. Then we look at the data and it's corner entry/ exit speed

So for me it's all a bit internet info so it must be true

Yes it may be a car that doesn't perform as expected but there are sooooooooo many reasons why this may be the case, not just engine output on a given day/ dyno

I am clearly in a minority so I will give up now....

Cheers

 

Understand your points but if you look at @Jokke Vlo track data comp you will quickly see whats up with HIS 380 ... he is a very experienced driver (racer would probably be better put) and certainly able to generate repetitive data ... for me the 380 vs 350 is more marketing a package than it is truly a large performance improvement. In particular if the rpm limit really has been decreased as we seen in @Jokke Vlo s car.

 If I look at his dyno chart in addition: this looks like the KT Dyno ( @Jokke Vlo correct me if I am wrong) and that one is definitely one thats setup up well. Its officially certified for the NOS VLN Race Car approval... 

On the positive side the V6 and 350s of most of the people I know seem to deliver their claimed hp ... unless its hot outside ;-) ... and I firmly believe my Exige EX460 does as well ,,, at least it can more than keep up with my M4 AC Schnitzer S4 on a straight line up to 200 kph... 

 

 

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2 hours ago, pete said:

i see seb delanney is selling his

He's bored of Lotus. Now wants a Ferrari.

That was a very long 4 months of ownership. But lots of views of his channel, I imagine.

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1 hour ago, French Frie said:

my car was making 329bhp stock

Interesting how your power curve gives up at 5800rpm.  If you continued that curve up the rev range (similar to your "after" curve) it would hit 350.

Dave

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20 minutes ago, Hangar 111 said:

Interesting how your power curve gives up at 5800rpm.  If you continued that curve up the rev range (similar to your "after" curve) it would hit 350.

Dave

yep, that's what I was (trying to) say(ing) :P ! and you can see the same curve on the Vone Racing graph... BTW,  Vone is a quite well respected tuner in France, and all their tunes are made on the rolling road. if you look at the bespoke topic I wrote about power graphs, trying to gather most of them, you'll see that other stock graphs are quite similar...

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The assumption here is that what is happening on the dyno is happening on the road. It looks like the ecu is limiting the car on the dyno, many assume this is Lotus cheating/lying/marketingBS/tricking their customers, I would question the dyno results before leaping to that conclusion.

We have all covered this many times though haven't we?

I drove the Sport 380 on a cold day but it felt noticeably faster than the V6 Cup in a straight line (which feels a step above a stock V6S too), back to back on the same road and same day. 

The reduced rev limit has kept me out of a Cup 380 but between 3,000rpm and 6,800rpm the 380 is stronger in acceleration, no doubt about that at all for me.

You all forget (including Jokke!) that he came out of a KT430 expecting the 380 to beat that. Racing driver or not, I think his expectations were unreasonably high. There was talk on here at the time of the better tyres, geo, aero, reduced weight making the difference. Another 50bhp is a lot in an Exige unless of course Komotec is cheating/lying/marketingBS/tricking their customers too. Jokke's disappointed, he spent a lot of money, emotions come into it at that point so now we have the 'no faster than a 350' story. Now we're looking through data to find evidence to support that story, no-one's looking into what else might be going on.

I wish it were otherwise, that Jokke was happier with his car as his views carry a lot of weight on here and elsewhere. I'm sure the disappointment is real and that's a great shame. I'd love to do a proper comparison between a stock Sport 350 and a Sport 380, I've always maintained that the 350 is a very strong package, better value for sure, but based on my own experiences so far I would expect the 380 to come out on top.

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Good to see Janspeed still can't make an exhaust. Also look at the size of the bypass line, that must be 1.75"? Thats bloody small. No wonder you can't run them in quite mode all the time!

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Was tempted with the idea of the Ti pipe for the Sport 410, might give it a miss now! :(

New one under warranty I would hope @Jokke Vlo

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I do compare data from the original V6 ! 

Pls note I make a difference between laptimes and engine performance. The 380 has a much better front as said and in combination with the better suspension it is faster on a lap.

 

Again I have not one argument to say engine performance is better. But I do have and read enough to say the engine does not perform better. Yes you have earlier power in low rpm but less in higher ......

I am affraid no warranty for the titanium pipe :(

Getting the rpm higher seems even for KT not possible by the way. 

 

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Not saying anything of the sort @Waitey so cool jets please.

'there may well be' is no more than a best guess.

All I'm saying is that it would be better not to jump to conclusions based on guesswork, cynicism and anecdotal evidence. A popular approach online for sure but not the smartest one.

There's no need for this to turn into a witch hunt or for anyone to get angry with someone who offers an alternative view. I would like to challenge the claim that the 380 is no faster than a 350 because I have personal experience that says otherwise.

Have you driven a Sport 380 @Waitey?

If not, then I don't think you are in a position to be setting any opinions in stone just yet.

12 minutes ago, Jokke Vlo said:

I am affraid no warranty for the titanium pipe :(

This is appalling! :thumbdown:

Why not? Not covered for track use?

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Oh dear, hope Jim doesn't see that exhaust.... no warranty, piss poor if you ask me.

"If" all the above is true does that make the 380 Cup, at what, £94k specced out a good looking lemon?

@Jokke Vlo hope Komotecmanage to get it sorted, as I was going your way in the New Year after the cars has been bedded in for a few miles.

cheers

Mark

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