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Europa is just a different looking a a bit more practical Coupe version of Elise...Lotus doesn't compete with TT or Cayman for sales..Europa is for different buyers..they will only sell 500 a year...Europa really has nothing to do with Cayman, TT or Z4 Coupe...it's not comparable...Lotus calls it a GT, yes a GT version of Elise/Exige.....but it's not a GT..it's a real sportscar..a lightweight sportscar for people who like that kind of cars....journos compare Europa with Boxtser, Cayman, TT and Z4..but that's wrong..because it's not a car to compete with volume Coupe's from germany..but it's a limited production lightweight sportscar for people who want something different and want a Lotus Coupe that's a bit more user friendly than Elise/Exige..

btw...we read that Lotus is developing a new supercar, and a middle range model ( possibly FR sportscar?? )...but what about Elise/Exige S3?? when will Lotus introduc the next gen Elise/Exige?? and with that in mind I ask myself how long is Europa goning to survive in the model lineup?? I assume that next gen Elise/xige will be different cars than current models and be build on VVA platform and offer more practiliy and be a bit more compromised...maybe even heavier ( i hope still under 1000 kg ) and a b it bigger, wider, more up market??? that leaves room for yet another small and light and affordable Lotus...a new type of car to revive the light and back to basics Elise S1??? so in the future Lotus could well have 4 differen models...a small and very light entry sportscar, Elise/Exige S3, new Excel and new esprit..all could use the VVA platform..

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But isn't this exactly why they want the extra models? So they don't have to compromise the Elise/Exige? Why would they want to make new lightweight agile sports car when they already have one.

For my 2p worth drove the Europa at Hethel on factory day and it was phenomenal to drive, but for all the other reasons stated above I couldn't live with one every day. I've got to add my vote for drive it yourself before you start criticising the way it performs.

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Mat

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Kimbers...

Was it you who set upon me (verbally) at Stonleigh when earwigging to a conversation I was having you overheard me having the audacity to suggest that the Europa was at best mildly disapointing or worse a bit rubbish.

If it wasnt, you have someone who talks in the same way you write.... somewhat aggressively.

You like the Europa - guess thats why you have one - fine.

The fact others do not is no reason to start 'lording' over them. Personally I think its a great car - secondhand, perhaps four years old and fetching I would estimate significantly less than a less powerful or well specified Elise of the same age.

The market will decide and I would seriously suggest it already has.

MG

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Reread the thread in it's entirety and got to say I don't think Kimbers was posting "somewhat aggressively" or "lording over people". He's driven a Europa and lived with one for a while and was responding to a post from someone who is (entitled to their view) but posting on the basis of comment made to them by others, i.e. no first hand experience.

Each post expressed a view without name calling....................

Can we as Bibs suggested earlier get back towards the topic heading? (Yes I'm guilty of straying too on this one!)

Regards

Mat

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Kimbers...

Was it you who set upon me (verbally) at Stonleigh when earwigging to a conversation I was having you overheard me having the audacity to suggest that the Europa was at best mildly disapointing or worse a bit rubbish.

If it wasnt, you have someone who talks in the same way you write.... somewhat aggressively.

You like the Europa - guess thats why you have one - fine.

The fact others do not is no reason to start 'lording' over them. Personally I think its a great car - secondhand, perhaps four years old and fetching I would estimate significantly less than a less powerful or well specified Elise of the same age.

The market will decide and I would seriously suggest it already has.

MG

I dunno if it was me or one of the other Lotus people manning the stand.

If someone tells you your S3 is a terrible car with no power and terrible handling wouldn't your first question be "How do you know, have you driven it?" In reply to the No you get you would then say "When you have driven it come back and then we'll talk" Exactly as per my comments. Not aggressive, true and honest I'd say.

I do like the Europa, it's a great car and easier to live with day to day than the Elise. But it's still a Sports car, not a daily run around.

I'm not Lording over them at all. I've stated time and again that everone is entitled to an opinion. But to form an opinion from what "other people have told me" without driving it is just plain ignorant.

I agree with you that it will be a great secondhand car, when it's pricing is more competitive. I also agree with your final comment which states the market has spoken. Lotus only ever planned to make them in limited numbers and they can sell all that they build......that makes it successful. Well said.

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Please stick to the topic. Any more variance from the topic thread will lead to this being closed.

There is a place to discuss the Europa as a car, it's been linked to in this thread twice. We don't need duplicate topics to discuss the same thing.

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Haven't seen any Europa since factory tour. It was a fun car to drive I really liked it ;)

I'm pretty sure I won't see any new Europas around here...place where exists one Elise :P

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Wasn't the plan to sell about 500 Europas a year? So, in 6 months, that's about 250 on the road out of about 20 million cars and trucks. So that's 1 in about 80,000 vehicles. That makes them rarer than the new Rolls Royce or Murcielago so I'm not suprised not man people have seen them.

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that's about 250 on the road out of about 20 million cars and trucks.

I have seen an Elise on the road in USA though and miles from a major city. I'll venture that's statistically a much rarer sight than even a new Europa in UK!!

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Wasn't the plan to sell about 500 Europas a year? So, in 6 months, that's about 250 on the road [snip]

Which also means you're about 40 times more likely to see any Esprit than a new Europa out on the road :thumbsup:

I've seen one Europa and one Esprit near here since Christmas... nice :sofa:

Dan

"He who dies with the most toys wins..."

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