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Which Esprit is more appealing?


Daniel

Which Esprit would be more appealing?  

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Let's say, two identical S2 Esprit's are for sale.

Esprit number 1: The engine has just been rebuilt by a reputable Lotus specialist (with receipt and warranty) and is absolutely bog standard.

Esprit number 2: The engine has just been rebuilt by the owner (who claims to know what he's doing) and has a host of upgrades (lighter pistons, 2.2 crank, larger valves etc) with receipts only for the parts.

As an enthusiast, which would be the better car?...... keeping in mind sale-ability is always a consideration.

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Depends on the owner. If it's someone you know to be good, then that's appealing. If not, who knows what has happened in there!

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for me personally I like standard........

so itd be number 1....altho I wouldn't be that concerned about the engine as they've both been rebuilt

Id be more concerned in this instance about what else was needed....

:yes:

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The Faster You Drive...The Slower You Age

(Albert Einstein  14 March 1879 - 18 April 1955)

 

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Both choices do not count in my eyes Daniel, and that does not go for esprits either,  Some specialist engine rebuilds i have seen have been terrible and when hearing what the owners have payed for the job is eye watering.  But many specialists have an in depth knowledge of the engines and have also worked parts and upgrades going of their years of in depth knowledge of working on said engines.  

The engine built by the specialist will always hold more value in the eyes of most future buyers as they see the word specialist and think it means it has been expertly build, i most cases yes but as said not always. 

Built by the previous owner ?  In some cases these can turn out to be the best engines, the previous owners will of in most cases spent longer stripping and inspecting due to having no time/cost value in labour to keep in line with, but it also depends on which machine shops they have used as most to do some of the bits such as crank regrinds/surface skims etc.  Also depends on which parts they used to rebuild with, this comes down to bearings,gaskets, etc. 

Very hard to choose from both, the truth would be in the final finish of  looking and inspecting the power plant of the two choices given. 

If you look at such builders as lotusbits etc they have upgraded the lotus twin cam with a shed load of bhp, increasing the cc to 2.5 etc, with all other sort of tricks thrown in to make the engine package great, would this add value ?  Yes indeed it would, imo as an engine package like this is not cheap but a way to increase the cars performance withut changing the overall look of the engine compartment in the esprit. 

Then look at engine work by the member changes on here,  cant remember what bhp its kicking out but its crazy, would i buy an esprit with an engine done by the above two people above , hell yes  :thumbup:

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A

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  • Gold FFM

I'd prefer an upgraded engine, but would want to do the work myself. So it would have to be someone you can trust and know for a fact he did a good job on the rebuild.

A specialist rebuild will push the price up, and isn't necessarily worth it (as said above). But you do get the warranty, so it's the safe bet.

I have made many mistakes in my life. Buying a multiple Lotus is not one of them.

 

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It's hard to tell, it all depends on the specialist and the enthusiast.

In my own experience on friends classic cars, it's really not that hard to do a much better job than a so called specialist. But of course there are real specialists, too. Just don't assume they all are, because most aren't — at least in France.

On a side note, I am not very fond of modifications, even if it's clever: it can become a nightmare because it's not documented in the workshop manual ...

Edited by Giniw
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how is the engine bay looking on both cars,  if the 2.2 bay looks perfect it must say something about the mentality / craftsmanship of the owner (and so the rebuild)

I have seen work of so called specialists, that you and me can call ourselves specialist, so if not done by somebody in the lotus world you still don't now if it is done correctly. 

when I did my europa engine I've read and read and studied and read again, bought tools for it, maybe a specialist had done a cheaper job but I wanted to do it myself. 

so to make a long story short I'll go for the second esprit (2.2) 

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When somebody tells you they've rebuilt the engine what they usually mean is that the engine needs rebuilding! I'd go with the specialist personally.

Edited by Paul Coleman

Lotus Esprit [meaning] a 1:1 scale Airfix kit with a propensity to catch fire

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This is a very subjective thing.

I think, I would choose  the car that has done the highest troublefree miles after the rebuild, If this is about the same, I would choose the car that drives the best by feeling. ( cold start, engine idling,how does it shift,how does it sound , how does it brake, Is the 2.2 really more eager to pull from low revs.because It should  be) ......

If the cars have done close to 0 miles after a rebuild, I would be cautious.

Why would an owner rebuilt his dearly beloved cars engine and sell it on directly. In that case, his motivation in the rebuilding is the same as the so called lotus specialist : making money out of it.... And why would he use all the expensive upgrades ( lighter pistons , bigger valves,2.2 crank etc) knowing he will sell his car after the rebuild? It usually doesn't sell for extra money with these upgrades. If there is a credible explanation from his side, then you can go for that one, If there is none, watch out.

Doing all the work myself, I do believe an owner can be as specialist as the real lotus specialist and he sure can spend more time, working slower and more thorough.

In all the comments above, I already feel a difference in opinion between those who do all maintenance jobs themselves and those that are dependant on a lotus specialist. So all our answers are not necessarily objective, are they?

And then we have a reputable lotus specialist and a reputable  lotus engine specialist. Not all good( lotus)garages are real experienced engine rebuilders. So without a name , it is hard to tell.

If it  really is an in house reputable lotus engine rebuilder AND you get a warranty on the engine, why doubt ? .....Unless the 2.2 really drives that much better.....which it should....

But do not advert it later on as an Esprit S2.2, because that would make me mad :devil:

 

Edited by gvy
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I never trust anyone else to do anything. Every time I have had to pay someone else to do work on vehicles, the result has been lacking. I'm not sure why the initial premise is to choose between engines to very different specifications; surely the better comparison would be between two engines rebuilt to standard specification?

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Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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1 hour ago, gvy said:

John,

i suspect that Daniel ( topicstarter) is talking about a real case. So two actual cars.

Are you Daniel? Or is this topic a random comparison.and a hypothetic question?

Basically, these are the options available to me.

I'm about to remove the engine for a new cam belt, clutch and manifold and as cyl 4 was slightly down on compression (about 10% and with oil down the cylinders) I was anticipating a top end rebuild.

Having spoken to various specialists, it's clear that looking at the engine as a whole is a better long term option as it's probably showing signs of wear throughout...... So particularly given the rising values, a few grand invested in a good quality engine rebuild makes sense.

I've built many engines in the past including motorbike race engines so I'm a self proclaimed know it all........ and how many of us have fallen foul to such folk in the past?...... I know I have.

I've no intention of selling, but you never know, so I'd like to make a sensible decision and as much as I'd enjoy doing a full engine rebuild myself, I'm aware that sending it off to a credible company who have specialist knowledge of the 907 engine and getting it back, with a receipt and a little warranty might result in a few less frowns from onlookers.

 

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  • Gold FFM

If you'll enjoy rebuilding it yourself, you should do so! Chances are no specialist will do the job exactly as you would. Never mind the resale value, there are many variables anyway. A potential higher value or more pleasure and satisfaction rebuilding and driving it, seems like an easy choice to make. Especially if you have no intention of selling.

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I have made many mistakes in my life. Buying a multiple Lotus is not one of them.

 

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From reading your original post, Esprit 1.  That said, my car's engine was re-built by a TLF member in the past and that did not have any impact on my decision to buy/not buy - just the fact it had been done was a bonus.

You don't have much choice when buying one of these cars. and my decision would be based more on my finances and if I could do the work myself (I can't) rather than any future decision.  You obviously have a warranty should you get someone else to do it and they cock up.

Its an enthusiasts car, so I wouldn't worry too much.

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Daniel,

in that case, as Filip already mentioned, You should do the job yourself.

However, I think it is a good idea, to take pictures, that document the important steps during the rebuild. As a buyer , You never know if a potential DIYer says he has done a revision, how far he actually went. Some people call external cleaning of the engine bay, an engine revision. :(

I would trust an owner, that can show invoices of parts used ,a foto documentation of the rebuild ,a serious workspace with materials and a good talk. And as said before. The car should drive well and feel OK, and should have done at least a 1000 miles after the revision.

If you plan to keep the car for yourself, go ahead and do the upgrades you like. I would.

If you consider selling within the coming years, keep it as original as possible. Even the color of the camcovers...... Not many will pay extra for uprated , not original parts, when it comes to a classic, on the contrary, some will hesitate buying.

Geert

.

 

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If you're capable, have the right equipment, and don't have any deadline to keep, then do it yourself, Daniel. There's more than enough members here that can give sound advice on the subject.

There's a strong possibility that while my engine is out I may do an exploratory engine strip and rebuild myself in the not-too-distant future. Not because it will save me money (knowing me, it won't), but because I'm one of those peculiar individuals who actually enjoy it.

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Margate Exotics.

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OMG   Barry is going to piss himself when he sees your above post Ian  :rofl:I must admit i actually prefer working on the esprits than driving them, well most of the time anyway, so you are not the only one Ian, however delve into the esprit 4 pot heart for no reason other than to explore i am not.  

If it aint broke dont fix it   :)  The men in white coats are on their way round now to take you to the padded cell for your own sanity and safety :P

A

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Both are subjective.

Caught between a rock and a hard place in a catch 22 situation, So its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Your damned if you do, but your damned if you don't so shut your cock!!!!!!!!!!!

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2 hours ago, silverfrost said:

OMG   Barry is going to piss himself when he sees your above post Ian  :rofl:I must admit i actually prefer working on the esprits than driving them, well most of the time anyway, so you are not the only one Ian, however delve into the esprit 4 pot heart for no reason other than to explore i am not.  

If it aint broke dont fix it   :)  The men in white coats are on their way round now to take you to the padded cell for your own sanity and safety :P

 

No, I actually don't prefer working on them than driving them, I might be pedantic when it comes to such things, but I'm not stupid. I happen to think that if the engine is already out it's a sensible thing to do. The way my luck runs if I don't strip it, the engine is bound to cack over no sooner than I've dropped it back in, and I really, really, don't want to be taking it out again in the foreseeable future.

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Margate Exotics.

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