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And if found not to be valid or fraudulent (i.e. pre-existing condition), make the airline/ferry company pay.

The simple thing to do, to help everyone in the NHS and everyone entitled to use the NHS, is just to say "NO". That is, unless it is a life threatening critical condition that needs to be done, you ar

When my wife had an accident in the US a couple of years ago, the local hospital wasn't about to let us disappear without charging. But their administrator on duty dealt with it as if it were an every

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I thought they'd being doing this for ages anyway?

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Do not hold out to much hope Ian,  This has been raised before and the NHS has been able to charge overseas visitors for well over a year now,  however the NHS has admited it does not have the staff or have any idea how much to charge people so just lets most of them off and will continue to do so at our expense :(

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I'd imagine that £500m would pay for a few admins to collect the cash though... 

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Dont think its just the money thing Bibs to be honest,  most stuff i have read on this subject is do gooders saying its not fair within the NHS,  staff saying they simply do not have the time to sort the invoice out, Staff also saying they have no idea what to charge for procedures etc as we are not like the Americans. 

Seems to work from the ground up, from say the nurse having to list all items used such as needles, wipes, stitches,  We are just not cut out for this at the moment and 500 million does not go far in the NHS in my eyes.  Really hope they do get this sorted though as i read one the other day about overseas people getting their catarax done on the NHS,  and to be honest its shameful how many overseas procedures we have done over the last few years for free ! 

The percentage is about 33 percent of all catarax operations last year had been done for overseas people,  Yet someone like me who has payed my stamp gets told my eyes are a little bit of needing doing and as i am not 40 yet they want to wait , but I am 40 this year but they said i  have the option of going private if you want it doing now. :angry:

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The simple thing to do, to help everyone in the NHS and everyone entitled to use the NHS, is just to say "NO". That is, unless it is a life threatening critical condition that needs to be done, you are politely told to toddle along. That way, we won't be doing 33% of catarax operations to people from overseas and people like @silverfrost will be free to get their's done.

I do not believe we will ever get to the point where the NHS will be able to recover the cost of non life threatening procedures, so, we just have a blanket ban. Obviously, we are a developed country and we will not let anyone go without when the need is life threatening. But for all you Remainers out there, just remember, if you need care in a life threatening situation in most of the EU, including developed countries like Spain, you will be left to die if you have forgotten your NI card.

It's a about bloody time we stopped being so bloody nice and told the rest of the world to go and do one, just like they tell us to do, or, insist that everyone who comes to the Uk and is not living here and paying taxes here needs o have 3rd party health insurance that the NHS can claim their costs against.

Just a view from someone who is hacked off seeing the UK taken for a ride every day by others.

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When my wife had an accident in the US a couple of years ago, the local hospital wasn't about to let us disappear without charging. But their administrator on duty dealt with it as if it were an everyday occurrence. I didn't know this at the time, but by law, EVERY medical procedure was allocated a cost code, so once the administrator knew what had been done, she knew exactly how much to charge us.

So, the NHS saying they don't have time for it, is total cobblers. Just adopt the same system as the US, and it's sorted. I can't believe the cost of employing an administrator costs more than the vast amount the NHS loses every year.

I first saw this particular news article on Teletext this morning. Ironically, the very next item was moaning about how full our NHS hospital beds are. Solution - get charging, and free them up, then.

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It's not as simple as that Ian and believe me it will had a huge layer of Admin and cost to the NHS. I have experience of working on hospital and NHS systems and you will need to do one of two things:

1. provide a checklist / system that means that every dressing, every drug, every cup of tea, every bottle of plasma, every minute of consultant's time, every minute in a bed, every minute in a theatre, every sutter, every piece of equipment used etc is tracked and recorded. This is a huge and mammoth undertaking to implement from scratch. The US has "grown up" developing the system over decades and both hospitals and insurance companies have a good idea of the cost and equipment and supplies and specialist time etc that is required for a particular condition or case.  Can you just imagine how much time, effort and cost it would be to create such a system for the NHS? The only people who would benefit would be the large IT vendors who would charge hundreds of millions and the lawyers who would chrage millions to sort out the mess and liabilities when it al went wrong and was not delivered.  Not a viable option in my humble opinion!

2. take a more pragmatic view and provide a rate card cost, a rack rate if you like, based on a condition - so a stroke (however complex the after effects or treatments were) would be charged at £xxx, a heart attack at £xxxxx, a single cataract at £xxx.  These "values" could be setup by someone like NICE - the people who currently rule on things like which new drugs can be used etc - and it would provide an incentive for some NHS providers to be more efficient to drive the "profit" through providing the care at lower than the cost rate.  The standard cost rates would be published and subject to change say every 2 years. That way, insurance companies could assess the risk and liabilities in advance, and therefore set their insurance premiums at an appropriate level.  As the charge was "condition based at a flat fee" it would remove the opportunity for appeal by the insurers based on "why did you use two bandages when one would have been sufficient" cases etc.

We can't just adopt the US system as we would need to literally train 150,000 people plus to use it. It's a huge and massive culture change and transformation programme that would cost tens and tens of millions to deliver.

In my view. just say No. Nicht. Nein. Non. etc.  Much easier. Much cheaper and we can give 6 months notice to the world then do it.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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The thing is, treatment for non-domiciled should be accident and emergency only, which, as per the US, is precisely what you get if you don't have insurance, or can't afford to pay. They patch you up so you are able to be discharged, and then it's up to you.

And they should still charge for A&E visits.

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Agreed. 100% with you on that.  no use spending more money on more systems for the IT people and lawyers to get rich and hoover up even more NHS cash

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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When one of our dogs needed urgent surgery following an attack by a stray, within minutes of my arrival to collect him the vet hospital involved was able to produce an invoice for the procedure, detailing everything from the surgery at £600/hour down to a scalpel blade at £0.20.

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They were just a small place in comparison with an NHS hospital, with only one person on reception who was basically handling all the non-surgical functions.

The extra cost to the NHS to administer this for our foreign visitors must surely only amount to a fraction of the money that they would recover through the charges?

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Ffs - that invoice is horrendous. The tramadol were cheap though - I'd ask to stock the cupboards up on those babies.

 

one of my dogs was hit by a car last year - really terrifying - shot him to the vets double panicky. Ultrasound, X-rays, bloods, emergency operation to remove spleen - just over £400 all in. The variances in veterinary bills is frightening - they were apologetic about the bill - frankly I was expecting double !! Ever since insurance has got involved in animal care the costs have shot up at some practices 

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I just don't have faith that they'll be able to return a net gain by doing this whole (chasing of) charges to non-UK. They already try and charge people but I think they'll spend as much or more in administering it than they'll get in that would otherwise have not. Some already gets paid, so it's then the forgot/can't pay/ won't pay that they'll be chasing, like debt collecting from somebody who has nothing, it's unlikely to get much of a return.

OK, then it's check before treatment (unless critical), fine but check how? Using the fake ID that they've got? Oh that's going to work.....

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What's once Brexit is complete is to stop the uk insisting on proof of health insurance alongside entery visas/checks??

we simply should not be letting folks enter the uk if they have no way of paying for healthcare. If the worst happened to a uk citizen in many countries of the world we would not get what we would give in regards to healthcare. We need to take the emotion out of the free at point of need for foreign nationals. We simply would not enjoy the same rights in other climes 

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9 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Ffs - that invoice is horrendous. The tramadol were cheap though - I'd ask to stock the cupboards up on those babies.

 

one of my dogs was hit by a car last year - really terrifying - shot him to the vets double panicky. Ultrasound, X-rays, bloods, emergency operation to remove spleen - just over £400 all in. The variances in veterinary bills is frightening - they were apologetic about the bill - frankly I was expecting double !! Ever since insurance has got involved in animal care the costs have shot up at some practices 

That is why most vets ask now if you are insured as they know the roof limits on what most insurance policys pay out for certain procedures, :(

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10 hours ago, andydclements said:

I just don't have faith that they'll be able to return a net gain by doing this whole (chasing of) charges to non-UK. They already try and charge people but I think they'll spend as much or more in administering it than they'll get in that would otherwise have not. Some already gets paid, so it's then the forgot/can't pay/ won't pay that they'll be chasing, like debt collecting from somebody who has nothing, it's unlikely to get much of a return.

OK, then it's check before treatment (unless critical), fine but check how? Using the fake ID that they've got? Oh that's going to work.....

 

When my missus had her accident, she fell and spilt her forehead open on a window sill. It required MRI and CAT scan on her head and neck, and once they found no other damage, 27 stitches before they sent us on our way. The administrator dealt with it in about 10 minutes. The bill? A whopping $13,000.

With A&E costs like that, I still reckon that if it was properly done, charging would save a shedload of dosh. Probably have to sub it out to a private contractor though, the NHS seems averse to doing it, and happy to play with taxpayers money.

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Margate Exotics.

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10 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

What's once Brexit is complete is to stop the uk insisting on proof of health insurance alongside entery visas/checks??

And if found not to be valid or fraudulent (i.e. pre-existing condition), make the airline/ferry company pay.

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The wife fractured her pelvis in Switzerland last year and no one would even look at her until i returned from our hotel with a debit card which once done resulted in people appearing from everywhere and excellent service followed by an immediate bill of £600

hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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