Future of Lotus

[exeterjeep]

Noticed today the Lotus did not register any new cars in the UK last month (SMMT data) , but should be a better number for the September registrations.

Looks as if all the UK dealer demos will be registered as 72's. 

[Rambo]

Lotus haven't registered anything all year Keith, never mind August 😐 I can't see it being any better this month, but let's hope the Emira actually does come on stream 😐

Lotus must have huge cash flow problems?

Edited September 6, 2022 by Rambo
Sp.

[exeterjeep]

Glad I am not funding them, SMMT registrations says,

Some will be the last few of the old models plus a few Emiras for press reviews etc...So not many...

Jan to August.

Lotus

per month

34

7

22

3

3

10

3

0

 

 

[C8RKH]

I'm starting to think that Lotus (like many other manufacturers) is going to be heavily impacted by the growing, by the day, cost of living situation.

The delays to getting cars out to deposit holders I believe may result in more people cancelling as we go forward and worries about finances and job security surge.

Right now, the impact is most acute on the lower earning groups, with the middle classes having some wiggle room. 

BUT, costs are up for all companies. Belts are being tightened, companies are raining back on discretionary spend to conserve cash. Interest rates are going up, so debt servicing costs will rise.

I expect to see offices being closed again. Not because of a pandemic and therefore fear of infection. But to conserve costs - people to run the offices, heating, aircon, powering equipment etc.

So we'll all be back at home (who are office based). Knock on impact on smaller businesses and on people as no furlough payments this time.

This will bite harder each month. And it will move up the food chain and pretty quickly hit the middle classes - the people who buy new cars.

If I was in Lotus right now I'd be pretty worried about the market outlook. As I would be in any car manufacturer that was not well established "luxury".

The really wealthy will spend. £200k on a Bentley. Pocket change. £350k for a Ferrari. Nae bother, and the blue new one will look great next the red, and the white one.

Being in the middle. Ouch.

Will be interesting see how firm deposits really are and how many don't turn into firm deliveries 

Nothing to do with Lotus or quality of the Emira. All down to timing and world events.

 

[Frickin_idiot]

Absolutely, I find myself in the position where I have virtually eliminated all discretionary spending in an attempt to save cash to ride out the coming storm.

[Rambo]

20 hours ago, exeterjeep said:

Glad I am not funding them, SMMT registrations says,

Some will be the last few of the old models plus a few Emiras for press reviews etc...So not many...

Jan to August.

Lotus

per month

34

7

22

3

3

10

3

0

 

 

@exeterjeep I couldn't find any stats. on the SMMT data when I looked under Lotus, hence my comment "Lotus haven't registered anything all year Keith, never mind August"

You obviously found some data so my apologies Keith 🤬

I would be very worried if I were the Chief Accountant at Lotus. In fact, I would be crapping my pants every day.

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

I'm starting to think that Lotus (like many other manufacturers) is going to be heavily impacted by the growing, by the day, cost of living situation.

The delays to getting cars out to deposit holders I believe may result in more people cancelling as we go forward and worries about finances and job security surge.

Right now, the impact is most acute on the lower earning groups, with the middle classes having some wiggle room. 

BUT, costs are up for all companies. Belts are being tightened, companies are raining back on discretionary spend to conserve cash. Interest rates are going up, so debt servicing costs will rise.

I expect to see offices being closed again. Not because of a pandemic and therefore fear of infection. But to conserve costs - people to run the offices, heating, aircon, powering equipment etc.

So we'll all be back at home (who are office based). Knock on impact on smaller businesses and on people as no furlough payments this time.

This will bite harder each month. And it will move up the food chain and pretty quickly hit the middle classes - the people who buy new cars.

If I was in Lotus right now I'd be pretty worried about the market outlook. As I would be in any car manufacturer that was not well established "luxury".

The really wealthy will spend. £200k on a Bentley. Pocket change. £350k for a Ferrari. Nae bother, and the blue new one will look great next the red, and the white one.

Being in the middle. Ouch.

Will be interesting see how firm deposits really are and how many don't turn into firm deliveries 

Nothing to do with Lotus or quality of the Emira. All down to timing and world events.

 

Exactly my thoughts too C8RKH 😐

[jep]

I very much doubt Geely have a short-term business plan for Lotus Cars. They certainly didn't at Volvo. They're in for the long haul, much like Tata have been at JLR. 

I don't say it will all work out (Jaguar is poor for Tata, Land Rover good) but no sensible investors in the automotive sector of building cars looks in anything other than a very long-term view. Their will be a myriad of bumps along the way.

GM's panic after M100 is the way not to do it. 

Justin 

 

[exeterjeep]

@Rambo

I used to download the monthly SMMT spreadsheet, but many months ago they dropped Lotus as a separate entry.  Think they did the same for McLaren Morgan?

But I now get my figures from 

https://www.am-online.com/data/manufacturer-insight   but their figures come out a couple of days after the actual SMMT release date. Hopefully when Lotus get new cars rolling off the line at a decent rate they will be listed properly again.

[Rambo]

That explains why I couldn't find any data on the SMMT site. Perhaps they consider anything <50 as insignificant 🤣

[exeterjeep]

Noticed today that the Lotus web site has Hendy Poole as a service centre only - ie no longer a 'retailer'. Was Westover sports cars before. Seems strange as the Poole site had what looked like the biggest showroom of the Hendy retailers. ??

[NedaSay]

If Lotus had gone the ICE route one last time it would have looked like this maybe...

That is a Ferrari SUV but they don't want you to call it an SUV, i think they don't want it to be associated with anything utilitarian with less than 450L in the boot and only four seats and no tow hook I get that. also a v12 so kiss goodbye your fuel economy. but then it has rear suicide doors...

[exeterjeep]

I see that Williams north of Bristol are no longer on the Lotus web site at all. ie no longer a service agent.

I know Hofmann's were no longer dealers some time ago, but their entry as a service centre is no longer listed - had not noticed that before.

[Frickin_idiot]

I contacted them when the Evora 400 was launched - was promised a call back and nothing. I bought from another dealer who did return my call. 
 

 

[C8RKH]

That ^ happens so many times it's a wonder some dealers are still in business.

 

[webfoot]

Lotus Technology completes fundraising, valued at RM20.6 billion; Eletre EV production to start this year

https://paultan.org/2022/09/23/lotus-technology-completes-fundraising-valued-at-rm20-6-billion-eletre-production-commences-this-year/

[KusaKusa]

A $4.5 billion valuation I don't think is bad from their initial target of $5-6 billion for IPO last year. There's A LOT of FUD in the stock market and especially around electric car manufacturers and especially especially around new and growing ones. It's been a lot harder for the companies to raise capital with the higher interest rates. In this climate with all those factors together, Lotus Tech still managed to raise money. So I think it bodes well that Lotus could fulfill the burden of proof for executing their build plans to elicit confidence for investments.

[jonwat]

Lotus Engineering committed to combustion engine development  

[NedaSay]

On 24/09/2022 at 13:32, KusaKusa said:

A $4.5 billion valuation I don't think is bad from their initial target of $5-6 billion for IPO last year. There's A LOT of FUD in the stock market and especially around electric car manufacturers and especially especially around new and growing ones. It's been a lot harder for the companies to raise capital with the higher interest rates. In this climate with all those factors together, Lotus Tech still managed to raise money. So I think it bodes well that Lotus could fulfill the burden of proof for executing their build plans to elicit confidence for investments.

Which is what Geely wants to see and will Guarantee that they keep funding them. Not selling much or any car for the past year must have been rough, and the unforeseen yet foreseable delays must not have helped, but this is almost cheap change for the group. The firsts Emiras are finally getting to their owners, Eletre may if not on time, even be early on arrival, and hopefully both factories (Hethel and Wuhan) will reach their early cruising speed.

Most of the heavy lifting on the platform has been done so $4.5B should suffice to get both Type 133 and 134 out the door hopefully in a timely manner.

[jep]

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-britishcars/geely-acquires-stake-in-aston-martin/46271

Geely buy shares in Aston Martin.

 

[yeller77]

My, Geely do have some deep pockets!

[jep]

Well, Lotus vehicles always did need more storage space 

[NedaSay]

They thought the managed to prevent that ... I guess it means they have failed. How many rounds of financing will Aston Martin need? the wording is very telling:

“Finally, I would like to welcome Geely Holding, who today have announced that they have become a shareholder”

Like Mr Stroll did not know they had participated

Fun thing if Mercedes, PIF, and Yew Tree all poneyed up cash to participate in this merry go round of investing 654M GBP in AM. Geely probably did not fork out that much and still walked away with 7.6%

By the look of it Aston Martin did not have much of a choice but to accept the Geely's Offer to become a shareholder gracefully. Lotus is definitely interested in provide SEA to  Aston Martin's maybe even Lotus take on it. That would not be the first time Lotus helps AM with an architecture as AM's old VH architecture was derived from what was going to become Lotus' VVA.

Edited October 1, 2022 by NedaSay

[jep]

Geely offered to invest a few months back....Stroll refused, so the story goes. 

I assume there was a shortfall and Stroll had no choice. I'm pretty sure Aston Martin F1 is not part of this fund raising, it is a separate company that used to be Racing Point/Force India/Jordan. 

Aston Martin Vanish may be the final road car.

Justin

 

 

 

[Bazza 907]

Aston Martin share price is down 95% from its stock market debut only a few years ago..

[pete]

Kimbers must have bought them then😋😋