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8 hours ago, electro_boy said:

This is pure speculation on my behalf ... But I'd say no not all of them are loss leaders.  I'd think as a general rule of thumb a lot of hyper cars designed by well established brands as a halo car are usually loss leaders.  The Bugatti Veyron was sold at a loss, the VW group wanted it to be a showcase of their engineering skills.  I don't know if the later models created profit or not. The Lexus LFA was sold at a loss, again was supposed to be an example of their engineering skills. 

But these days we are seeing more and more hyper cars and manufacturers being announced.  I think a lot of these companies are funded by venture capitalist firms whose sole aim in life is to make more profit.  So think these cars will have to make a profit or if its a part of a longer strategy of establishing the brand first and releasing a updated new model afterwards, then they may make a slight loss but they'll have to keep the losses low to ensure they have enough left in the bank to complete the next model that will generate the profit.

Don't really agree. VCs don't generally make their money by taking small companies to successful big ones. That is a long slow process and they want to profit and turnover their cash.  They will be looking for an M&A exit to sell the company so loss making halo is exactly right.

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Lotus staff got free hot drinks vending machines back in August, was a very welcome move and much appreciated from the people who work there. Sometimes the little things can make a big difference 👍

Maybe, time will tell. I am starting to think that I am out of kilter with the majority (nothing new there I suppose) but all this talk of electric, luxury, etc and I can't help but feel we are going

Selling 6 cars instead of 5 in China would be a 20% increase. There really is nothing to celebrate at this moment in time beyond Lotus's survival but hopefully it will start to make some kind of sense

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Yup - spot on. VC's are smash and grab merchants and fook any long term collateral damage. "Show me the money"....

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Wouldn''t say smash and grab. I have worked in a startup that was VC funded with an OK exit, There's a place in business for VC funding but they don't want their cash tied up for 10 to 20 years. That is not their business. They take a risk on early funding and only make a profit on 1 in 10 of the investments.

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Fair point, I was being glib.

I've worked more with longer term investors, who work differently as they have, doh, a longer term outlook :)

 

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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@100th_Idiot thanks for the insight.  Also I'm guessing "M&A exit" means merger and acquisition exit?

So the idea of a VC firm backed project is to come in at an early stage when the business is worth less.  Spend money on creating hype and interest, spend money on developing novel new technology and ideally get the interest of a bigger car firm who want that tech for themselves so buy you out?

Thats got to be a stressful job being in charge of that and deciding which new "best thing since sliced bread" is going to actually make it or at convince people enough to give you money, especially if its only successful 1 in 10.

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 Left field observation from Porsche history, but I’m some way I see a parallel here, the 964 was a production cost nightmare, Porsche brought in a team of production experts from Japan and the 993 started to turn a profit. Then the aircooled car couldn’t meet pollution or the noise Reg,s enter the 996..Bigger car then bigger then bigger. The 993 was the panicle of the air cooled cars but the 964 is more pure old school Porsche. The Evora to me is the 964 of the Lotus world, history will tell.

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On 14/05/2020 at 12:56, electro_boy said:

@100th_Idiot thanks for the insight.  Also I'm guessing "M&A exit" means merger and acquisition exit?

So the idea of a VC firm backed project is to come in at an early stage when the business is worth less.  Spend money on creating hype and interest, spend money on developing novel new technology and ideally get the interest of a bigger car firm who want that tech for themselves so buy you out?

Thats got to be a stressful job being in charge of that and deciding which new "best thing since sliced bread" is going to actually make it or at convince people enough to give you money, especially if its only successful 1 in 10.

More or less. Sometimes it's not even early stage but non existent. They fund people with a concept.

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Another interview with Phil Popham.

Its mainly about the Evija - but does state:

"So an SUV may not be immediately on the cards but the company is continuing to develop a new sports car that will be a more affordable option for Lotus enthusiasts....

...The Evija is our halo car, stretching the boundaries of automotive design and technology, but our strategy all along was to produce something that is more widely accessible."

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/lifestyle/motoring/evija-hypercar-marks-new-beginning-22064504

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Some current models. I thought that was fairly obvious to be honest given the goal to increase unit sales.

 

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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@PAR - yeah, I think you're right.

They want to make them easier to live with - so they appeal to a broader range of people 

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cynical me thinks ...................no Sills to climb over, longer doors, big boot, 4 cup holders and an Ipad size ICE screen and a hybrid engine🥱

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I visited the factory in 87 and Lotus made the seats in the Esprit wider just for the US market

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10 minutes ago, au-yt said:

Ipad size ICE screen

I think their time has been and gone. Mazda are discontinuing and in general they are being implemented thinner (i.e. like a letterbox) into the dash (new 911, Merc E and S Class) or, they are being more fully integrated to the main speedo binnacle. Plenty of evidence out there to show accidents are on the increase due to people faffing about with screens and that was certainly Mazda's justification for its move.

1 minute ago, au-yt said:

I visited the factory in 87 and Lotus made the seats in the Esprit wider just for the US market

Good to know if I ever buy an Esprit. Must get the US seats.... :)

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Or develop the 311 screen so all you need is on there? Scroll button to move from driver focused (speed, revs, gears, temps etc) to journey focused (speed, satnav, monitoring). Can't be that hard really, surely.

Small rotary dial conveniently placed, no cd/ice screen separate, nice and clean (better still simple steering wheel touch button and Volvo's speech recognition/activation system - that would open huge options for the interior to break the mould and be in the true Lotus spirit of innovation, design, forward looking etc). I'd love to see the Evija interior approach taken. Very minimalist, sharp, and clean. I really love it.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Well manufactures are experimenting a bit with Display Screens.

As you can see the new Mazda MX-30 has not 1, but 2 - a 7" colour touch screen to display the climate control settings and an 8.8" one to display with Mazda Connect system.

https://www.mazda.co.uk/cars/mazda-mx-30/first-edition/

 

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1 hour ago, au-yt said:

a hybrid engine

Lotus confirmed is the US LOT forum that their next sports car will be ICE. 

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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Yup. 

Or in this context, Internal Combustion Engine. 

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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