Future of Lotus

[stephenwhyte 1,863]

There should be a law against fictitious “how it could look” pictures - they get right on my wick, and the reason I would never give a penny to Autocar these days. AutoExpress have been much better in this regard but clearly have started to stoop to the same level of fantasy journalism.....

[NedaSay 825]

On 18/08/2020 at 02:26, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

I think somewhere back in this thread Nedasay told us that there is indeed a V6 in the Geely portfolio. Lotus and/or Volvo Polestar could have had a fiddle with that to see what figures they could achieve.

Yes there's a V6 in the Geely Portfolio, codenamed JLV-6G35 and 35 stands for 3.5l displacement good for some 270 bhp in standard guise. I hinted at the fact that this engine looked like a GR-FE clone,  and the fact that it was codeveloped with Volvo. Today this V6 is only used on a few Geely Emgrand models and mostly it seems on the middle east markets as Geely has shifted its homegrown status "Bo Rui" class vehicles to hybrid.

Now another interesting tidbit, the guy in charge of the car that was first fitted with this engine is none other than current Group Lotus CEO Feng Qingfeng. The same person who established a skunkwork division in Hanghzou on the Geely campus where engines are made and another one in Ningbo where a bunch of subsystems are designed and produced.

They have now been at it for almost 2 years, I'd bet a penny or two  that Lotus engineers have had full access to the schematics of said engine, The engine can be customized to fit Lotus needs and cherry on top the engine would/could only share very little (the block) with the standard engine, the rest could be bespoke to Lotus not just the ECU but engine internals could be made to suit Lotus needs (forged valves, cams, sleeves...) making it very worthy of the Lotus Engineered badge.

So if we take the tidbits from AutosExpress seriously... Yes the engine can either be and inline 4cyl or aV6 and in both case Lotus won't need to have access to Toyota powertrain. Knowing that the engine is a Toyota may reassure people on some markets but the Volvo seal of reliability should not deter that many people either. Time will tell.

[Jason is Chasing 88]

Ouch on the rendering,  but its brilliant there is confirmation of an entry level Lotus, I imagine in the end with my limited experience in a Lotus Vehicle it will be an absolute weapon. 

 Auto Express puts out some pretty wild renderings, I hope they're pretty far off the mark on this one, there is something I8'esque about this, that is a bit of a turn off for me.

I've heard the same myself that it will be done on the Evora chassis and a Volvo powerhouse, so its nice to see that confirmed in some regard here

[Bibs 10,879]

2 minutes ago, Jason is Chasing said:

they're pretty far off the mark on this one

[Jason is Chasing 88]

On 15/08/2020 at 04:40, mg4lotus said:

@Jason is Chasing see above

Thanks for this, I'm currently actively seeking a used Evora 400, I tried to figure out my finances to work on the GT however in the end I would have to liquidate something more than my 4c, and I wasn't comfortable with that.  While I thought that search would be easier,  it's still a bit of a challenge,  and given my travel limitations at work I would be required to take an out of state Dealers word on the vehicle. 

 

I need some Lotus in my life, so heres crossing my fingers!

4 minutes ago, Bibs said:

I do hope so!  

[mg4lotus 106]

I think the Autoexpress images have a feel of the M100 Elan about them. Then they've just added some of the porosity features from the Evija. It looks too busy and retrograde, IMO.

[NedaSay 825]

The AutoExpress rendering is a ripoff DB intent prototype Elan... They are pretty happy with it but I think it is not going to look much like that at all.

When it comes to the architecture of the thing I can't wait to see how much of the chassis they have really changed, and how much of the Geely group they have infused... Volvo carbon spine comes to mind amongst other things.

[Jason is Chasing 88]

 

https://carbuzz.com/news/get-excited-for-new-lotus-sports-car

 

Talk of the town so, 

[NedaSay 825]

Without trying hard this carbuzz piece is a lot more accurate than the AutoExpress... these Elan 2010IP are still stunning to look at. However between the Exige and the Evora form factor there's not so much to play with. I'm guessing the car will be a strict 2 seater but closer in size to Evora than Exige if not bigger than Evora. That would generate the extra creature space that have been mentioned.

[mg4lotus 106]

I think the Carbuzz images are more attractive than the Autoexpress images. Perhaps it will look  better in the flesh.

The Carbuzz interior image has no gear stick and no paddles that I can see. Are we sure that it's not electric? 

[Jason is Chasing 88]

i truly hope Lotus keeps to their purity, and makes a manual option available as anticipated, I don't necessarily find either rendering terribly attractive, but I don't care either; much like a person, it's the Character and Passion it can conjure that will be irreplaceable. 

[MPx 256]

On 21/08/2020 at 10:07, NedaSay said:

... but the Volvo seal of reliability should not deter that many people either. Time will tell.

This is what's really worrying me.  Lotus had a very ill founded reputation - none of the post kit car day cars have been any more "unreliable" than any other.  But the LOTUS reputation has stuck.  Volvo HAD a reasonable reputation pre-Geely.  For the last couple of years they've been at the bottom of the tables with LandRover.  Just got the latest Which? magazine with this on the cover.

Wont take too much more of this to seal the fate of Volvo and Lotus!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[C8RKH 5,979]

@MPxI got it too and seems like Volvo's are good for the first three years.

Did you notice Tesla was 2nd to bottom - now that is a SHOCKER - poor build quality, poor paint, lots of issues for owners....

Also, the view was that pure electric cars are on the whole are very unreliable with petrol hybrids being the most reliable.

The main German brands, Porsche; VW; BMW were all in bottom half and Audi in its usual worst of the Germans position!!!  When will people learn!  

Skoda did much better than the mainstream German brands

Toyota was out there as one of the best with superb mechanical reliability. Bodes well for us modern Lotus owners to be honest....

It makes really interesting reading to be honest.

[TdM 149]

To be fair, I had a pre-Geely Volvo (don't ask). It was ****. Constantly going wrong, lots of electrical problems and switched itself off in the fast lane of the M4.

The only car that I've ever had that left me stranded and cost a fortune to run even when it was working.

[C8RKH 5,979]

I've had a current model S90 for the past 12 months and so far it's been bang on. Got it for half price , ex Volvo mgrs car, 9 months old when I got it.

[Loquacious Lew 280]

The ownership experience I had with a Volvo Turbo cured me forever from considering the marque again.  The closest I've come to Toyota ownership has been with my 400.  Of all the things in the car, I consider the running gear and chassis to be the highest quality items and actually, two key reasons that allowed me to buy the car.  

What I have hoped Geely's investment would bring to new Lotus models is industry standard fit and finish and, of course, buying power.  As a Lotus enthusiast I don't look forward to future models adapting existing Geely and Volvo hardware aside perhaps for their electronic features and other obvious bits....window winders, etc.   I have hoped  that  the team currently at Lotus,  or one that thinks like it, would be given the ability  to develop and source  important components according to what is the best practice for a Lotus car rather than making do with modified and more common 'utility vehicle' bits  in the important areas.  

I don't necessarily mean light switches and turn signal stalks.  I'm  happy to have Ford switched in my Evora and actually delighted to have the Toyota lump in the trunk.  What I do mean is that any move forward would ideally provide an exciting  motor specific to the car or sourced from the best available not just what can be had from the company store.  That would set the goalposts  in my mind.   

Per my moniker,  I could go on and on about this but I hope Lotus produces a unique and relatively purely Lotus vehicle, but better.  I think a real bottom up car company should have its own motor and all the rest.  I've been hoping Lotus would become that major industry leading manufacturer employing all the clever tricks they've learned in 70 years coupled with best manufacturing processes.  

I'd sooner be talking (anticipating, that is) about the stuff Lotus is going to develop rather than what Geely already has in the pipeline. We all understand the "whys" of this approach to new product......especially now that we live in uncertain times coupled to the realities of specialty/sports car sales.  But it would be nice to see a bottom up vehicle without compromise in the running gear department.  

 

Am I being  a pill?  

 

 

[NedaSay 825]

6 hours ago, MPx said:

This is what's really worrying me.  Lotus had a very ill founded reputation - none of the post kit car day cars have been any more "unreliable" than any other.  But the LOTUS reputation has stuck.  Volvo HAD a reasonable reputation pre-Geely.  For the last couple of years they've been at the bottom of the tables with LandRover.  Just got the latest Which? magazine with this on the cover.

Wont take too much more of this to seal the fate of Volvo and Lotus!

Uh how many drivers have had poor luck with their hybrid you think? And also how many of these drivers have busted their infotainment systems with greasy fingers... Not to put the blame on driver/owners but Volvo is still ranking very high in North America for reliability...

I've been driving a previous gen V60 T5 for the past little while and it is definitely on my list of runabout for replacing the Saabaru, when the times comes.

 

When it comes to the interior of the future car... it is poised to have a manual version, possibly another improved version of BG6 which is made by Geely group supplier of record AISIN AW. I do believe that Lotus has done "a Lot" of R&D work for Aisin while working on GT430, so much so that Aisin now lists the torque spec used by this gearbox in the Lotus application... Believe or not it was only rated 400nm + before.  With Lotus progress on the charge cooled version of this transmission, I think they can get more out of this gearbox probably another 20 to 30nm...  Especially if the new engine is "twincharged" and reaches peak torque lower in the powerband.

Also when it comes to 7DCT or 8 speed auto Lotus can again choose what they want to use and find the right fit for the car thanks to Geely's own 7DCT or again Aisin AWF8G55 (the 55 stands for a massive 550 nm of torque capability).  Can you imagine Lotus mating that AWF8G55 with the GT430 engine... The car would be good for ridiculous bhp numbers, easily over 500bhp on demand and reliably, but the GR-FE is about to loose its homologation on the North American market so unless Lotus has managed to get Toyota to upgrade to the GR-FKS...

Then there's a part of my brain but can't help but think that the car will come with a 48v system not to different from what we've just seen on GMA T50.

 

Edited August 23 by NedaSay

[au-yt 451]

I know this is thread is based on the future of LOTUS  however in defense of VOLVO in Australia, they are making serious inroads into the German SUV market with a local dealer telling he cannot get enough stock of XC40's of which C-19 is also a major part.

I've been listening to the US Lot podcasts of late which has given me a good insight into the people behind the scenes. Have faith in what there doing as there are some very innovative people at Lotus and always have been, it one of the reasons I came back to Lotus.  

 

 

 

[yeller77 93]

Had a pre-Geely XC90 V8 for years, bought used, sucked up miles of equal measures of long commutes and cross country road trips. It even survived as my son's coming of driving age vehicle, not unscathed but no fault of the car. This as opposed to the MB ML that came before and the LR Evoque that came after, service shop queens both. The Toyota connection has been good for Lotus Cars. Hopefully Geely-Volvo parentage will add incremental improvements and the ingenuity of Lotus engineers will be able to take advantage of the new support and parts bins.

[Bibs 10,879]

 

[C8RKH 5,979]

On 23/08/2020 at 02:28, NedaSay said:

Uh how many drivers have had poor luck with their hybrid you think?

Tesla comes out 2nd bottom for reliability in the WHICH survey published this month. 30%+ owners experiencing issues within the first three years. Less drivetrain related but a lot of trim, paint, tech issues etc. They are not impressed at all with Tesla.

On the other hand, Toyota are top three and they rave about them. Interestingly, they have found that pure EV's have more reliability issues than Hybrids and petrol hybrids are in general the MOST reliable cars - Which? were as surprised about that as I was.  As a result, I'm now looking at a Petrol Hybrid Toyota RAV4 for the wife's next car!

[PaulCP 637]

@C8RKH  A bit off topic but I think Toyota probably have more experience of the petrol/hybrid than any other manufacturer.
Our Lexus RX has proved impeccable as a long distance cruiser in U.K. traffic, comfortable & relaxed drive, quiet, decent performance when needed and surprisingly economical for a 3.5L (similar engine to the Evora). Only drawback is the CVT box which, whilst responsive is just something you need to get used to due to the groan under harsh acceleration. Once you get used to the hybrid driving technique the CVT box groan can be minimised. (Not sure if the RAV4 uses a CVT box or not)

I still prefer an Evora as a long distance cruiser on the continent though  

[Techyd 215]

On 28/08/2020 at 10:36, C8RKH said:

I'm now looking at a Petrol Hybrid Toyota RAV4 for the wife's next car

Off topic, I know but my friend has one of these and I have to say it’s a cracking car, really well made, great spec level and very comfy. We drive in it from Southampton to Durham and we saw 48mpg and this was from delivery miles! Since then he’s had nothing but praise for it; plus it tows really well which is unusual for hybrids

[Bibs 10,879]

From - https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/lotus-ends-evija-development-contract-williams-advanced-engineering

Lotus has terminated its technical partnership with Williams Advanced Engineering (WAE), which had seen the two firms work together on the all-electric Evija hypercar.

In an official statement, Lotus said: "Williams Advanced Engineering has been a technical partner, bringing specific high voltage and battery development expertise to the Evija hypercar project.

"As the programme entered its latter stages pre the Covid lockdown, Lotus elected to bring the project in house due to delivery problems from Williams Advanced Engineering. Lotus will complete and enhance the programme in house as referred to in previous statements about our new Advanced Technical Centre in Warwickshire and the revised Evija production timetable.  

"The end result will be a better product as we introduce not only the most powerful production car in the world, but also the world's best electric car for the drivers."

WAE claims Lotus’ decision is “wrongful and without any legal basis, made for Lotus/Geely’s unrelated commercial reasons”. 

The engineering firm also claims that any allegations from Lotus that it breached the terms of the agreement, signed in January 2019, are “false and contrived”. 

WAE is now taking legal action against Lotus on grounds of wrongful termination and will pursue compensation for invoices that are claimed to have gone unpaid since April 2020. 

According to WAE, the decision puts a number of UK jobs at risk and jeopardises the launch of the Evija, which was recently delayed because testing could not take place during the pandemic. 

WAE claimed the project is “now in its latter stages” and that it had “continued to perform outstanding work and progress the project despite the global impact of the Covid-19 pandemic”.

“WAE wishes to make clear that this issue has no impact on its existing projects, customers and partners,” it added.

[Bibs 10,879]