Future of Lotus

[Bibs]

On 29/08/2021 at 10:50, Bibs said:

Shame he's not headed back to Norfolk...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry-news-corporate/aston-martin-chassis-guru-becker-set-take-new-role-mclaren

Turns out he's off to JLR instead. Still a shame he's not going East! 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-dealership%2C-sales-and-marketing/matt-becker-joins-jaguar-land-rover-mike-cross

[mdavies]

On 18/01/2022 at 21:15, jimichanga said:

What does that actually mean for dealers and what difference does it make for customers?

I have scanned the info here on the new Retail Agency (RA) model – and also am little wiser on matters important to me about it.  Hastily, a few points I see - I’d welcome being corrected on any or all by those who know better.

The RA model degrades those previously dealers from being what were, in principle, independent businesses, to mere functionaries within the Lotus/Geely global operation. Whatever business they will now operate will be as a dealer in second-hand cars.

“Retail Agency” (RA) is a misleading term – they do not retail new Lotus cars.

For the customer, it enforces fixed prices. No ability for the RA to show appreciation to a buyer with a long repeat buying record with that RA, or to differentiate between those they assess as potentially becoming one, and "others".

The previous customer/dealer contract and relationship will not exist: “Some issue with the new car?  Sorry, talk to Lotus.”

Replacing the customer-dealer-Lotus chain by a direct customer-Lotus one will not in fact bring the customer and the Lotus organisation any closer together.  The large disparity in power between those two will make any relationship superficial and worth little if anything.  Previously, with a reasonable request (or case) with which the dealer agreed, a much greater influence could be exerted on Lotus by the dealer.  Obviously no details, but I have benefitted from this in a good number of ways, over decades.

No point in becoming worked up about it all – a done deal. The effect for me is that I will assess future Lotus purchases as I would that of any other car – all that matters is suitability of the vehicle itself for me. Whoever makes it. The Lotus I knew is no more and I have no interest in the sprawling Geely organisation as such.

I have an Emira order in place at present – far from wholly committed. Further assessment information starting soon I hope.

Edited January 20 by mdavies

[jimichanga]

Sounds like the days of bespoke specs, sub-1000kg cars and big discounts are long gone. No doubt they would have done an audit to identify why the cars were costing so much to build and this is clear step to rectify time consuming labour intensive orders. Lotus never wanted to do bespoke cars but had no option but to accept such orders as they had just to keep production staff busy. They were always expensive compared to mass produced cars but for many of the one-of-one specs they produced something of a bargain really. I guess too few buyers ever saw the value of that plus exclusivity was part of the deal with every Lotus. If they can get the volumes up then it should provide a more stable income for the dealers even if the margins are lower and no longer flexible. With the old model the dealer must have taken the hit on stock that didn’t sell and had to be heavily discounted. It wasn’t long ago that no-one paid full list for a Lotus. But I can’t see any benefit to the customer from the new agency model. Moreover it is not playing to their strengths and relies on a radical transformation of a traditional Lotus weakness - customer communication. No evidence as yet of any improvement in this area. Proof will be in the pudding of course and they don’t have to be good enough for the fussiest customer anymore they just have to be good enough for most people.

[C8RKH]

These changes are not encouraging me to think about a new Lotus in the future if I am being honest.  

I am probably not the demographic that Lotus is wanting to market to as I buy as much with my heart as I do with my head. Therefore, the affection I feel for the "brand" is very important to me, and it really just feels as though Lotus has decided that as it goes forward with Lotus 2.0, heritage (cars, dealers, customers) is not valuable to them and instead they are just ruthlessly going to "chase the numbers". Yeah, yeah, I know they are creating the Heritage Showroom but that is purely for marketing purposes as far as I can see.

I don't buy the "for the drivers" strapline going forwards. I think it should probably read "we were for the drivers" as going forwards I think they are "for the accountants".

If I have understood things correctly, the First Edition Emira V6 is going to be a 400bhp car. So a little less power and a little more weight. Not something that I am finding appealing to be honest. I don't doubt it will be easier to live with. To get in and out of. To store your "must have" cup of coffee for every journey.  But a First Edition is not an Emira that I yearn to own, so currently, Lotus does not offer a product that I want and is not likely to do so for another 2 years. So what do I do in that period?

I am finding myself looking more and more at 2.5lt Coxsters as a semi sensible every day driver. I want a 2 seater convertible as a daily driver (thankfully I do not have to worry about transporting kids etc). Lotus does not offer one.

I am minded to look for a 4 door saloon daily driver. The Alfa Giulia Veloce is very tempting, but I have also seen a Bentley Flying Spur that would be nice!  Again, Lotus does not offer anything here (I don't want an EV as I regularly need to do a 300 mile each way journey and NO EV will guarantee that right now).

So, my heart keeps pulling me back to Lotus, but it is the heritage models I am looking at. An Exige 410 Sport, or a 380 Cup would be great. But as a daily driver? Similarly an Elise 250 Cup or 220/240 looks fab. But then again, as a daily driver?

So it feels like current Evora 410 Sport could be my last new Lotus car that I bought, certainly for the foreseeable future.

I know we are in a transition period, but I really do think Lotus has fooked up canning all three heritage cars at once, for a single new car that is still some months out from first deliveries. Fixed head. no convertible option (a massive failure that they did not learn from the Evora for sure!).  I really do wish Lotus well. I love the brand. I love the heritage. I love the underdog beating the shit out of cars from Germany (in the areas that are important for me for sure!). Currently, it's likely that I will not be a part of that future journey.

 

[CocoPops]

I fully agree Andy…

my brand new Cup250 was supplied in September, delivered August.

it had no soft top, that arrived today. No apology, just a soft top in a box with some bubble wrap.

That didn’t order/pay for a hard top got given one free “to get the car out of the factory” those of us that did order a hardtop? Nothing.

acceptable to supply a £60k+ car with bits missing? Imagine how that would go down with Porsche owners

Oh and I paid my £2k the day after the big Emira launch… have I got any further with it? nope, still waiting for i4 information. Am I feeling warm and fuzzy about my Elise? Am I feeling warm and fuzzy about an Emira order? Also no.

 

[C8RKH]

Quite terrible service and to be honest, given the volumes, totally inexcusable and I know Lotus read these forums but my question is, when you read stuff like this, why don't you do anything about it? If you are doing anything about it, why is not visible in terms of actions we can see and improvements we can experience?

Times move on. Organisations change. I get that. But so do customers and their expectations and as you go to play with the "big boys" people will expect the quality to be there, not just in the cars/product, but in the service.  Given the frankly shambolic approach to spares and availability, that has been an issue for years, I am not confident that in the short term the changes required will be enough.

[CocoPops]

Trust me, I want to love Lotus more than most.

2 vx220 (as well you know, yes Vauxhall, but more Lotus than other Lotus badged cars), 2 Evora (NA and 400) and now onto my second Elise (Sport220 and now Cup250FE).

Have lotus learned and changed? No. Are they making people feel special? No.

if it wasn’t for the love of the brand, I’m sure I’d have given up by now. I discussed buying the last of the Elise run within a week of my late wife passing, that’s why it’s important to me. They know that, it’s no secret.

They mucked us about with #silvergate (interior) and inordinately high option prices (painted spoiler instead of black? £600. Painted spoiler end plates, instead of black? £600. Colour stitch? £600) and then they mucked us about with soft tops. I was promised they were to be sent out in delivery date order… imagine the frustration when cars were being delivered before Christmas with soft tops and yet still no news on mine!?

Seriously, Lotus you have to change. For everyone’s sake, not least your own.

[PaulCP]

@C8RKHInteresting that you are thinking Coxsters, really surprised at you 🤔

I had a long hard think about the Emira and in the end decided that if I decided to go down the Lotus route again I’d prefer another Evora.

My thoughts however also get continuously drawn to another 2 seater car which is probably as rare as an Evora (I’ve not seen one on the road yet despite it being available for 2 years now) and usable every day.
Not going to reveal what it is on here to avoid the thread going more off topic, especially since I still continue to grapple with my own thoughts on whether shelling out £50k+ is still the right thing for me to do, so I’m remaining tight lipped until April😉
 

[chipp]

Dear

 

 

As someone that has followed the launch of the Emira with keen interest, we’re pleased to inform you in advance of some significant new Lotus website features.

 

To help you visualise Emira in different lighting conditions we’ve added: 

• Improved Emira configurator colour representations and different lighting conditions.
• Video of your chosen configuration driving the iconic Big Sur in California.

And to help you with Emira finance options you’ll see:

• Finance offer examples.
• A dynamic finance calculator.
• Part exchange valuation.

These features will begin to appear on the Lotus Cars website from the 24^th January.

 

Welcome to the next step on your Emira ownership journey.

 

Existing Emira Priority Order Customers:

If you have previously paid a Priority Ordering Fee for your Emira, please only proceed to the Reservation section if you would like to reserve another vehicle.

 

 

Lotus Cars

 

 

Telephone: 03300 948 047

Email: [email protected]

Website: lotuscars.com

 

[Jcx]

My story/experience is very different.  Have I been lucky?  Every interaction I have had with Lotus has been good.  When issues have arisen they have been attended to by Lotus with haste.  When i have asked questions they have been answered - either by phone or email in short order.  Both dealers I bought from have been good.  And others I have communicated with have also been very friendly.  Reading your stories of disappoitment, is like reading about a different company.  I hope moving forwards far fewer people have sorry tales to tell and many more experience Lotus as I have.  My experience should be the norm.  Fingers crossed eh?

[jonwat]

What the Lotus Emira means for Britain’s iconic sportscar brand

A good read 

[mdavies]

“Lotus vehicle dynamics chief Gavan Kershaw agrees. “I love the V6,” he says. “I’ve grown up with it, and it’s got a really strong character – the throttle connection and the sound, with a manual transmission and an LSD. But you jump in the four-cylinder Emira and it feels super modern and very strong in performance. It’s like being back in my GT4 race car.”

A good read for intending Emira V6 owners? Perhaps not so much.   Gavan Kershaw’s words have to be taken very seriously by all. I’d like to hear him expand on that quote. Really a choice between “strong character” and “strong performance”?  And between feeling like “his GT4 race car” - in which we know he did rather well! - and, er…….. well, not feeling like that, presumably?

Anyone in a position to request “clarification”?

 

[jimichanga]

AMG makes more torque even in 360bhp tune, it’s likely to be lighter (alloy rear subframe) and have faster gearshifts so I don’t expect much difference to the V6 in a straight line. If expectations are for it to be the lesser car then it’s likely to surprise. V6 is more characterful and engaging especially with a manual gearbox. I didn’t get the impression that the AMG is actually faster if that’s what you were wondering, just that the two cars will be closer in performance than the power figures suggest. GT4 race car must have more in common with V6 but perhaps he was referring to the paddleshifts.

[TdM]

Sad to see Hoffman's with its Lotus sign taken down outside now. That's one less dealership. I hope with their planned expansion they start expanding rather than contracting soon!

[Frickin_idiot]

The lack of dealerships is worrying and it will be hard to encourage more new owners into the fold with a poor network. 
 

I can’t speak for Hoffman’s but certainly the dealerships that are close to me were poor.

[Barrykearley]

Wait til the virtual Amazon showroom goes live 👍

[jimichanga]

Only heard good things about Hoffmans plus they were one of the few dealers with race experience and set-up know how, really useful for those who enjoy tracking their cars.

[Bibs]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-finance-and-corporate/lotus-float-new-ev-division-stock-market

[NedaSay]

Interesting... one day in the future Lotus technology may buy Lotus cars outright. It is setup LT be much bigger than LC will ever be. I'm guessing this is the result of Etika not willing to divest of their stock. Lotus is on the rise it is not quite the moment to sell. But I wonder how much funding they have contributed to Lotus cars since they inherited the shares from DRB/HICOM (Proton).

Edited February 21 by NedaSay

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

My guess is $0. They must be rubbing their hands at all of the work and investment Geely are putting in.

[mdavies]

Even more words than Autocar............

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/21/lotus-courts-investors-capitalise-chinas-electric-car-revolution/

[thebartman]

firewall

[mdavies]

A Porsche IPO could make a launch of Lotus Technology seem a pretty minor matter. 

".... could be one of the world's largest stock market debuts. Analysts estimate Porsche AG could be valued at up to 90 billion euros ($102 billion) in an initial public offering (IPO),........

From the link, much current uncertainty regarding specifics but it seems relevant to Lotus  Tech. insofar as it could absorb much of whatever cash may be seeking a home in the motoring world.

But a somewhat misplaced comparison IMO.  Many of the words written about an IPO of Lotus Tech. actually address Lotus Cars in historic terms, rather than as an intending producer of future EVs with "traditional Lotus characteristics" one presumes, but not established and competing with many others. And high-tech leadership in the EV world? Didn't Lotus look elsewhere for the Evija?

For any of my pennies to be invested in Lotus Tech. I'd need to have lots of info, forward projections and convincing numbers.  Meanwhile, the Porsche possibility................   

https://www.hl.co.uk/news/2022/2/23/volkswagen-and-top-investor-steer-towards-porsche-ipo?utm_campaign=Newsroom&utm_source=AdobeCampaign&utm_medium=email&theSource=EONRM&e_cti=481268&e_ct=T&Override=1&deliveryName=DM7607

PS: Written as someone who could risk a small sum - ownership of a few of Lotus' traditional cars quite irrelevant.

 

Edited February 23 by mdavies

[Bibs]

https://www.thelotusforums.com/latest-news/lotus-cars-news/lotus-launch-drive-for-online-retail-car-sales/

[jonwat]

Autocar