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@C8RKH Sounds about right to me. I think Lotus would do well to improve the overall interior fit and finish across the range to attract a wider audience but then offer Lotus Motorsport variants which hark back to the current stripped out Elise/Exige lineup to satisfy current Lotus owners. Basically the Lotus 'M' cars.

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McLaren will be a tough act for any new Esprit to compete with.

They have used their bottomless pit of funds to invest in leading edge tech, including a new plant which can make carbon-fibre tubs using a semi mass-production method rather than costly hand layup which results in the Alfa 4C costing far more to make than its price.

In that respect they are ahead of any other manufacturer including Ferrari. 

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It's worth remembering that the original Turbo Esprit (Giugiaro) was marketed at a much lower market segment than we are expecting for the new car. I have a copy of the Autocar's Renault GTA V6 Turbo road test (23 July 1986). The Renault retailed at GBP 23,905 on the road. The Esprit Turbo was one of the rival cars listed and cost less at GBP 23,440. The Porsche 944 Turbo was GBP 27,547. The 911 did not even get a mention. On that basis, you would suggest that the Turbo Esprit was a bargain! 

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One of the big questions is what will distinguish Lotus when it moves up market.  Sure, the cars are light, but so is much of the competition.  The other standout for Lotus is the raw or visceral feel of their cars.  Even the Evora is bare bones by modern standards.  The problem is that this aspect has not played well in the market place,  

My only suggestion is that the Esprit can be different by offering a light true 4 seat coupe or sedan.  Most other offerings are two seaters or 4 seaters with a decided emphasis on luxury.

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@LotusLeftLotusRight Not sure you are right, as when the Turbo Esprit came out in 1981 it was compared with the following:

Turbo Esprit £20,900
Maserati Merek £18,987
Ferrari 308GTB £21,810
Porsche 911SC £16,732
BMW 635CSi £18,950
AC 3000ME £13,301

http://www.lotusespritworld.com/ERoadtests/AutoCar_May81.html

By 1986, the pricing had changed. But at outset it was compared to the 308 rather than the 911.

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@C8RKH your GBP to "my" colonial USD( not using CAD as it is mostly irrelevant in global trade) I think we are in the same price bracket if we look at currency conversion rate.

I do think Lotus will be priced just as Volvo is on their market segment i.e value for money. I think they will benchmark with Porsche first, then Ferrari, McLaren, Aston Martin, Lamborghini but also Alpine and Maserati, naturally they will benchmark the other germans. However trying to outprice a BMW M2 is almost impossible im my opinion if we think about scale.   

As to the fit and finish of the new cars, if the SUV cabin does inform us, and the recent hiring spree both at Hethel and in Shanghai suburbs is anything to go by, we are set to see a new generation of dare i say luxurious high tech interiors in future Lotus.

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Now luxurious should not mean heavy... They should be in the same vein as the Evora just even more polished and with bespoke user interface, derived from Geely group U/I  but tuned and redesigned to fit the Lotus philosophy/positioning. No more aftermarket or outdated Ford parts bin stuff. Lotus is appointing a buyer that will be based in Stockholm...They are getting Volvo's tech in theses cars, I expect the loom and all the stock, toggles and switches to be Geely-Volvo CEVT branded products. Get ready to say hello to HD widescreen with a Lotus skin on the Volvo Sensus U/I, get ready for Sparco electric cooled and heated seats, phone wireless charging craddle, USB ports galore, HUD,  multizones AC unit engineered by Volvo. Get ready for driver assistance...  One of the possible favorite option people will tick maybe the delete option. 

Now the range is going to be interesting in terms of positioning, JMG said before he left that two new sports were coming but they would not be replacing two cars in the line up. Because it is the oldest car in the range, we first thought it was the Elise that was getting replaced before JMG spoke again and said the market was elsewhere and the attention got shifted toward an Exige replacement. We all assume the other car is an Esprit successor or halo car. Essentially that leaves Elise and Evora to soldier on before they are eventually phased out with or without replacement. In two years the line may look just as @C8RKH presented but segmenting the Lotus range will be somewhat tricky.

I assume the new Exige will go toe to toe with the Boxster/Cayman and that leaves very little room for an entry level Elise. I assume the Evora is going to get another mild make over  in order to keep hunting the 911  forever and ever. I assume the Halo car will slot above the Evora and hunt everything else... And everything  else is a awful lot these days. this segment is crowded and it is getting worse with Corvette and Aston Martin both bringing new read mid engined cars in the next 2 years. If you are just looking for a mid engined supercars right now, you have never had that much of a choice amongst the established players and the price span is daunting too, from around 150K USD to near or beyond 300K USD it is maddening.  I wish the very best of Luck to Popham and the team to position the car. Should they go to the lower end Audi R8, McLaren Sport Series or Should they go to the upper end 720s, F488?

 

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13 minutes ago, NedaSay said:

Should they go to the lower end Audi R8, McLaren Sport Series or Should they go to the upper end 720s, F488?

There are only a small number of people (relatively speaking of course) with the means to splash £150k+ on a 3rd, 4th or 5th car. There are significantly more with £100-£150k to splash, especially with good Volvo like financing options etc. Also, £150k+ is ALL ABOUT THE BRAND - so prancing bulls or horses etc. and it does take time to build a brand to the point where you would splash £150k+ on a product. Lotus is not there yet and will be a few years to get there.

Look at VAG, the have a vast portfolio of brands and overlap in models. What does a R8 really offer over and above a TTRS for the extra huge wad of cash?  What does the Huracan really offer over an R8V10 for the extra huge wad of cash?  Brand positioning and cachet, and the Halo effect of the bigger, much more expensive cars.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying Geely and Lotus won't get there. They will. But when they do, i think the cars and the ownership proposition will be a lot different to know, and the cars will not get used, driven hard by real enthusiastic and knowledgeable owners, like they do now.  They'll be pampered garage queens that get rolled out for the next cars and coffee meeting so people can swoon over them, before they are tucked up again till the next C&C event.  just my thoughts.

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On 01/11/2018 at 20:04, Spinney said:

 

So sat on Heathrow Express just now and news comes on. Ferrari reporting record revenues. All down to surge in sales of 8 and 12 cylinder models!

 

You know where you can stick your 4 pots!  :)

 

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25 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

So sat on Heathrow Express just now and news comes on. Ferrari reporting record revenues. All down to surge in sales of 8 and 12 cylinder models!

 

You know where you can stick your 4 pots!  :)

 

Hum let's be optimistic, first Lotus gets to fiddle with Geely's own V6 to get something positively perky about it lets say 550bhp, down the line Lotus gets Geely to bankroll a V8 block on which to  slot two banks of the Drive-E 4 cyl with the turbo and electric supercharger - 4L and some 800bhp on tap  - to which you had one or two electric motors to get to a ridiculous amount of bhp... considering they have a carbon chassis in development that should offset the lardyness of such a unit.  

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Big track....Bloody high desert!  Needs lots of money to make it look and feel attractive. 

I guess the Chinese may be able to pull it off...  

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8 hours ago, NedaSay said:

Hum let's be optimistic, first Lotus gets to fiddle with Geely's own V6 to get something positively perky about it lets say 550bhp, down the line Lotus gets Geely to bankroll a V8 block on which to  slot two banks of the Drive-E 4 cyl with the turbo and electric supercharger - 4L and some 800bhp on tap  - to which you had one or two electric motors to get to a ridiculous amount of bhp... considering they have a carbon chassis in development that should offset the lardyness of such a unit.  

Lol, like it. 400, 450, 500, 550bhp - yeah that's plenty for any road car, especially a Lotus if they shave 100 kilo's off the weight of the current Evora for a similar sized new model.

The Evora is what around 1260kg right now in GT430 guise.  My understanding is that a lot of the "weight" is the Toyota V6 and supercharger which is not exactly the lightest engine of that dimension in the world. 163kg is I believe  the service weight of the 2GR-FE V6, so including the supercharger and chargecooler we must be looking at almost 200kgs, or one sixth of the total Evora weight.  Get a new lightweight V8, say 3.6/4.0ltr in there, even with 410/430 bhp which should be achievable easily for an NA and shed 60kg from the engine+supercharger+chrargecooler total of 200kg, get rid of some of the stupid +2 wasted space and shrink slightly the cars length, whilst mounting the engine lower (in what was the +2 area) and you probably have one hell of a superb, sweet handling, low centre of gravity, weapon!  I think that would be my perfect Evora and at £115k for the priviledge I'd be in.

Then, lengthen the wheelbase and either add 2 doors (a la AM Rapide) whilst keeping the svelte profile and you have the ideal family guy 911 killer.

I can dream. Oh please Geely, please make this car for me in Fire Red!

 

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On 04/11/2018 at 23:22, Nathan Pitman said:

Sorry, pop up lights ain’t gonna happen. Pedestrian safety killed those off. 

Not 100 percent sure on this one,  it has been brought up in the past regarding the law on pop up lights,  Some say it was stopped due to aero reasons, others for as you say pedestrian safety,  

If rolls royce can design a safe flying lady, i am sure the boys at hethal can design safe pop up lights hopefully :thumbup:

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You can have pop up lights in the US market and EU market, it's a myth you can't.  The issue is how you handle the pedestrian impact and limit the risk of injury. As you say @silverfrost RR got around it with the silver lady which is covered by the same regulations.  You would need to have some sort of a "sudden drop" feature when a front end impact was detected and of course they would have to deform in to the body space easily so as not to impact on the crash box protection etc.

It is not impossible. just hard. And expensive. Which is why it has not been done and we have these stupid shape formed plastic headlights instead.

Imagine standing in front of your garage. Opening your electric door and then "plipping" your key fob or smart phone - the interior lights in the new Esprit come on, the headlights gracefully rise and flash "hello" at you, and the engine automatically sparks into life and engages its pre drive analytics to warm everything up for you.  The hairs on the back of your neck WOULD NEVER again be flat every time this happened. You'd be like a little kid wetting his pants each time it happened.  I'm in.

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Sounds fantastic Andy,   I think a sound investment if they did get the pop up lights back on a modern Esprit,    Kills two birds with one stone,  first it is iconic of the Esprit design,  second it would also make the car even more unique with been the only car in production to have them.  :)

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The Esprit engine has to be located longitudinally and mounted much lower in the chassis than the Evora/Exige. As said, the supercharger assembly itself is another big lump of high-up weight that competitors don't have to deal with. What happened to that Ferrari 458 V8 engined Evora development mule that someone on here knows the whereabouts of and teased us with photos? I presume that was located longitudinally, so it has already been done.

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7 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Lol, like it. 400, 450, 500, 550bhp - yeah that's plenty for any road car, especially a Lotus if they shave 100 kilo's off the weight of the current Evora for a similar sized new model.

The Evora is what around 1260kg right now in GT430 guise.  My understanding is that a lot of the "weight" is the Toyota V6 and supercharger which is not exactly the lightest engine of that dimension in the world. 163kg is I believe  the service weight of the 2GR-FE V6, so including the supercharger and chargecooler we must be looking at almost 200kgs, or one sixth of the total Evora weight.  Get a new lightweight V8, say 3.6/4.0ltr in there, even with 410/430 bhp which should be achievable easily for an NA and shed 60kg from the engine+supercharger+chrargecooler total of 200kg, get rid of some of the stupid +2 wasted space and shrink slightly the cars length, whilst mounting the engine lower (in what was the +2 area) and you probably have one hell of a superb, sweet handling, low centre of gravity, weapon!  I think that would be my perfect Evora and at £115k for the priviledge I'd be in.

Then, lengthen the wheelbase and either add 2 doors (a la AM Rapide) whilst keeping the svelte profile and you have the ideal family guy 911 killer.

I can dream. Oh please Geely, please make this car for me in Fire Red!

 

Ok to be fair at 163 kg the GR-FE if not the ultimate lightweight V6 is by far and large not  lardy at all... There are kits out there with exotic material to get its weight way down I read somewhere that it could shave up to 15kg but that means a whole lot of titanium. the Lotus HWA V8 was going to be 170kg but that was pretty much a race engine detuned. A Drive-E based engine would be necessarily turboed as the entire architecture is turbo centric, with a max rpm output set at a low 6000 rpm  because the goal of that engine was to comply with Euro 6c and also gulp gas or diesel with minimal change to the engine block and head.

Now when it comes to the placement of said engine... Yup if we remove the leg room that was dedicated to the +2 configuration you can centre masses even more aggressively but you still need the space dedicated to the gas tank and you may want to make said gas tank a bit larger, a 70L capacity would be a minimum. Still as we said there's plenty of weight to be shed by doing a bit of reengineering to the Evora chassis: some alloy castings here and there instead of plain extrusions and doing away with anything steel on the car to lower mass even further.  Now when you say adding to doors (à la AM Rapide) do you mean having a four door, four seater rear mid engined sports car???  You lost me there. 

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2 hours ago, NedaSay said:

Now when you say adding to doors (à la AM Rapide) do you mean having a four door, four seater rear mid engined sports car???  You lost me there. 

Yes, that's it. I'd call it more a kids car than a sports car. you know, somewhere to put the darling little shit machines and the nappy wagon in the boot..

The sports car would be for us men and women who leave the kids at home when we go vroom vroom.

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Fantastic news  :thumbup:   Did they not apply a few years ago for some more buildings and it got turned down ? 

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Haha. Do you remember that story about the Phoenix Consortium who briefly owned failing Rover? They wanted to be saved by Shanghai Automotive, who invited them to China. They all had dinner together and the booze started flowing. The canny Chinese pretended to be drunk and let the stupid Brits get bladdered. Only then did they start negotiations.

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