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2 hours ago, NedaSay said:

Lotus entrusting chassis build to Williams is idiotic at best to me... Lotus is a chassis company, entrusting the battery to williams ok, the gearbox to Xtrac, Ricardo or Syncromatic ok, but the chassis should be designed and built at Hethel and nowhere else... Especially a hypercar chassis.

'If' Lotus are taking this route, I'd be most surprised to see them leave the chassis as it is, regardless of Williams' engineering expertise, however, I would imagine Williams would also be quite happy with that. They would surely expect any partnership utilising their platform to develop and evolve what they have offered, and Lotus have a pretty stellar reputation for chassis design. I, for one, would also be interested to see what else WIlliams can offer: their F1 experience with air effect, for instance, must surely be worth considering...

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On 15/02/2019 at 11:11, Sport220 said:

What's so idiotic about buying an already developed and ready to build, carbon fibre, lightweight, EV platform, from an Engineering team that's been powering Formula E and clearly has a lot more CFRP experience than Lotus?

I see it as a great partnership and an opportunity to build an halo car without overspending. And we all know what the Chinese want.  

I see it as it is... With their new upcoming positioning, Lotus should avoid people getting the perception that major components for which they are known for as one of the ultimate masters (aka chassis build and tune) to be sourced from elsewhere... The Chassis design should in my mind be handled beginning  to end in Hethel. Don't get me wrong having consultant and suppliers is part of the game and totally ok but what if Ferrari was saying that they next hypercar was going to be built on a Dallara chassis... Nope sorry don't think so.

The williams skate (see image below) has been around for the past few years and is already being used by the Dendobrium supercar I think.

williams-fw-evx-12-1.jpg&client=amp-blog

 At the end of the day it is nothing but a carbon sandwich chassis, not something the engineers at Lotus cannot develop quickly and effectively in house. The powertrain system that I do get Williams has been working on it for the past 4 years  so battery integration in the chassis they sure can land their expertise.  And when it comes to battery production and considering Williams AE and Unipart are building a factory to do just that in the UK it would make sense to use them as a supplier for that... But in my opinion this is where it should stop. Besides that Supercar Lotus and Geely are developing has been initiated underJMG. He hinted at it almost 2,5 years ago and the thing has been in development since before the purchase as a result it should/could be pretty advanced already so if Geely and Popham decided 4 months ago to send the design to be done at Williams what message are you sending to your own engineers?  

 

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My thoughts are that it’s electric tech that Lotus are looking at only. The integration of batteries in the chassis has too many long term issues for maintenance of the cells. Unless the cars weighs 1/2 of what the current crop of  electric vehicles the flat chassis even in carbon ain’t gong to be stiff enough.

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10 hours ago, NedaSay said:

I see it as it is... With their new upcoming positioning, Lotus should avoid people getting the perception that major components for which they are known for as one of the ultimate masters (aka chassis build and tune) to be sourced from elsewhere... The Chassis design should in my mind be handled beginning  to end in Hethel. Don't get me wrong having consultant and suppliers is part of the game and totally ok but what if Ferrari was saying that they next hypercar was going to be built on a Dallara chassis... Nope sorry don't think so.

The williams skate (see image below) has been around for the past few years and is already being used by the Dendobrium supercar I think.

williams-fw-evx-12-1.jpg&client=amp-blog

 At the end of the day it is nothing but a carbon sandwich chassis, not something the engineers at Lotus cannot develop quickly and effectively in house. The powertrain system that I do get Williams has been working on it for the past 4 years  so battery integration in the chassis they sure can land their expertise.  And when it comes to battery production and considering Williams AE and Unipart are building a factory to do just that in the UK it would make sense to use them as a supplier for that... But in my opinion this is where it should stop. Besides that Supercar Lotus and Geely are developing has been initiated underJMG. He hinted at it almost 2,5 years ago and the thing has been in development since before the purchase as a result it should/could be pretty advanced already so if Geely and Popham decided 4 months ago to send the design to be done at Williams what message are you sending to your own engineers?  

 

Yes Nico, not a good message to the very good engineers already on the Lotus payroll, chassis has always been a Lotus expertise; is this partnership for chassis collaboration I am hoping this is for lightweight electric motor and the interface with the driven wheel especially on 4WD systems?

unless the electric engineers who were involved with the Elise Tesla and Evora EV are no longer at Lotus and not able/wanting to return still unsure why Lotus haven’t pushed ahead without going outside the Geely group for assistance, and would assume this partnership was sanctioned at the top of the Geely empire and benefits the Geely group as a whole!


Darryl & Sue

Proud to drive and own a true British supercar the Evora GT430

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Ok I get the point, however batteries are a series of cells, serviceability when in a chassis which appears to be the picture is the main issue I see, and, if your lucky 7 years battery life AGM batteries are the only option.

Then the access to then for maintenance and chassis integrity with removable section, the only way to manage that is a removable complete unit. 

 You can only do 3 consecutive full power runs with a Tesla before it goes into limp mode. So cooling systems yes fluid cooling for the Batteries and electronics is also an issue. 

Give me the Williams X75 Jaguar system makes much more sense for a Hyper car, keep the battery cars as white goods for now.

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11 hours ago, au-yt said:

You can only do 3 consecutive full power runs with a Tesla before it goes into limp mode. So cooling systems yes fluid cooling for the Batteries and electronics is also an issue.

Which is usually not mentioned by owners and journo's when they just talk about how fast it accelerates!  It's a long way off from being a usable high performance car for anything other than a few "bursts".


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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In general, EV cars and batteries are going to be a problem in the short term...  However in terms of packaging and weight pure EV beats Hybrid every single time.

When it comes to supercar that dictates low gravity and mass centering, the best if not the only way for them not to be a major driving hindrance is to locate them as low as possible, so under the floor and/or immediately behind the driver and passenger seats. Which means that if you think of service them, you have two options ; either you service them from the under carriage side or the cockpit side - if you remove the seats and carpet, either way and you make them serviceable by having a removable - bolted on - sheet of carbon, which as a result means that the skate is not as rigid as it would be if the cells were encapsulated and single use only, which is not that big a problem if you have a very small production batch with a VVIP concierge in charge of organizing the service of said cars... 

 

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Any of you guys in the UK knows when the base 2019 Evora 400 comes out?

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Uh I don't think they are planning a 2019 400, as far as I know the GT 410 Sport is the new base model.

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6 minutes ago, CharlieBrown said:

Any of you guys in the UK knows when the base 2019 Evora 400 comes out?

29th of Feb.

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HAHAHA

On 19/02/2019 at 08:59, CharlieBrown said:

So Only 2 years in the US for the Evora 400...perhaps the price of used ones will start going up? I'd like that! hahaha

Well, all the Lotus websites still has the Evora 400 listed as one of their models.

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32 minutes ago, CharlieBrown said:

HAHAHA

Well, all the Lotus websites still has the Evora 400 listed as one of their models.

I believe they do it because of the number of 400 in dealers' inventory. However if Lotus was gearing up for a new model year it would probably be a MY2020. 

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Without commenting on hydrogen powered cars in general or on sourcing the stuff, am I right in believing on-board hydrogen tanks are 5,000 or 10,000 psi?  If so, hmmm.....

And Charlie Brown, re your "hmm." above, are you intimating that a 2019/2020 Evora will actually be a "400"? As opposed to some other number?

 

 

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re hydrogen issues, there is a new technology which uses a membrane to release hydrogen from ammonia,  so I presume eliminating those issues, and making refilling and transportation/storage much easier. Agree with @C8RKH, that having hydrogen power makes much more sense, and not having to manufacture batteries that themselves require a lot of energy to manufacture. By products of water and nitrogen sounds pretty good to me.

 

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8 hours ago, C8RKH said:

I've said it before and I will repeat it again. EV's on their own are merely a transitory technology and a reason to push battery exploration and innovation.

The real commercial future will, I believe be in Hydrogen powered hybrids. Why?

1. The cost and complexities with rolling out national infrastructure to support the charging of EV's at scale is too high - it will cost upwards of £30bn-£40bn in the UK alone to support and there is little real appetite to pay for it

2. The conditions on the UK streets are not conducive to large scale deployment of EV's charging posts and they remain open to "blockage" (so you can't access them), vandalism, etc. The vast majority of people in the UK do live in the country or "private housing estates" with space - they live in congested streets and estates where parking is a battle, not a right

3. Despite the increases in range, the range of pure EV's is still insufficient for a longer commute or journey (say 100 miles each way, plus leaving the car not on a charger for a few days) to get over the range anxiety for many

4. As the TESLA Model S shows, the cars can be phenomenally quick, but only for a few short bursts and then the batteries heat and they need to recover. Not going to be a hoon or track day weapon any real day soon then

5. The biggie - habit!  People are not used to having to plan ahead for their journeys, they are used to the convenience of just jumping into a vehicle, starting, it, driving off and when they need more fuel just putting it in, quickly, usually at the same 5 minute stop having a pee, getting a coffee and a yorkie bar! Even with fast chargers of 20 minutes as the number of EV's grows the chances are your wait will grow.

So for me, the real alternative will be Hydrogen hybrids.  Hydrogen pumps will be added to current forecourts much like LPG was (indeed, probably replacing the LPG ones) and with Hydrogen cars already capable of a range in excess of 300 miles they will be combined with a hybrid electrical engine/recovery system to provide a total range of around 500-650 miles from a single fill-up and no need for thousands items of additional street furniture to be installed, of holes to be dug in roads, etc etc.

EV's will be like the betamax video - a short term technology winner that was first outdone by the volume ease of VHS and then by a different technology (CD's/DVD's).

Hydrogen is coming - the most abundant element on earth. no need to mine/extract it in one country to export to another. More self sufficiency and less political risk due to fuel crisis caused by war/politics etc.  The only thing holding it back right now is the fear of destabilization that it might cause in areas such as Africa, South America, the US and the Middle East through the shift away from black carbon based fuels.

Supporting evidence

 

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15 hours ago, NedaSay said:

I believe they do it because of the number of 400 in dealers' inventory. However if Lotus was gearing up for a new model year it would probably be a MY2020. 

You are correct.

An UK dealer told me this about the 2019 Evora 400 model....."no unfortunately not, the Evora 400 has been stopped by Lotus, the only Evora available is the Evora GT410 Sport."

14 hours ago, mdavies said:

Without commenting on hydrogen powered cars in general or on sourcing the stuff, am I right in believing on-board hydrogen tanks are 5,000 or 10,000 psi?  If so, hmmm.....

And Charlie Brown, re your "hmm." above, are you intimating that a 2019/2020 Evora will actually be a "400"? As opposed to some other number?

 

 

My hmm just expressed disappointment. 

Edited by CharlieBrown

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12 hours ago, CharlieBrown said:

You are correct.

An UK dealer told me this about the 2019 Evora 400 model....."no unfortunately not, the Evora 400 has been stopped by Lotus, the only Evora available is the Evora GT410 Sport."

My hmm just expressed disappointment. 

Interesting, The factory website still lists them

https://www.lotuscars.com/explore-lotus-evora-range

Old trick by dealers to sell you what they have in stock only.

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KI believe there is only one 400 u registered in the UK so not much of an issue anymore here’s but the GT410 is not approved for the US market yet so 400 is the only thing they can still sell there. I guess they don’t take orders but just redirect customers to what has been stockpiled there.

Edited by PAR

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11 minutes ago, PAR said:

KI believe there is only one 400 u registered in the UK so not much of an issue anymore here’s but the GT410 is not approved for the US market yet so 400 is the only thing they can still sell there. I guess they don’t take orders but just redirect customers to what has been stockpiled there.

I believe the announcement for the 430 and 410 is imminent,  the few dealers left are meeting with Lotus USA today and tomorrow. They should be presented with the future plans going forward and logically some Volvo dealers and service centres could be added to make up for the lost dealerships and bolstering the support infrastructure for Lotus in North America.  It seems that while they were not supposed to get the GT410 initially they/we are going to get it.

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