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Honestly its hard to predict. If Geely is able to make the Lotus brand something desirable then my guess is the current generations of cars will hold a respectable value in the long term. However, that's a big IF and could take years. That's why I think Geely wants to make the Lotus hypercar. Its a quick way to bring the Lotus name mainstream again, then you have to bring out some new quality cars, better dealer network and advertising. Easier said than done of course.

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4 hours ago, Ccd said:

CharlieBrown:

I disagree.  The “new” Evora is just as likely to depress prices for existing Evoras.  Let me share an example.  I own the last gen TT RS which only came as a manual in the USA.  Only around 1200 were produced over 2 years and the current gen TT RS lacks a manual.  There is a market for the car, but demand is not high.  Now if I owned the last gen R8 with a manual, then the demand would be VERY high.

It all comes down to demand.  Lotus has not been in high demand in the USA.  Look at prices for Esprits in the States and compare them to similar cars of the era.  Ferrari’s of that era are still in high demand and the prices reflect that.  The Esprit?  Not so much.  

The prices for the Evora are continuing to fall.  There are a number in the $70K range right now on CarGurus.  Hard to know where prices will level off.  There are few Evoras for sale in the USA, but a lot of them have been for sale for a long time.  My best guess is that prices will level off in the $60-70k range, but that is nothing more than a guess.  

Your best chance for prices going up is if the “new” Evora, along with an advertising campaign, changes the public image of Lotus.  I frankly doubt that Lotus is going to invest much money in the Evora.  Geely has been in charge for some time now and they haven’t even bothered to update their pathetic website which would cost little to do.  Instead, I think Geely is spending its money on brand new models and that their advertising dollars will be saved to promote those cars.  That ad campaign may improve the value of your car if it raises Lotus’ image with the public,  but you will have to wait a few years for that to happen

Well, we'll see who is right about depreciation in the US of the Evora 400. I still believe the arrival of the overpriced new Evora GT will help prices stay in the 70-80K.  If you put a TTRS next to an Evora 400, guess which will be more desired to own...the Lotus by a mile of course. Also there are no other Lotus cars for sale unless you look at old models, and nobody wants a Esprit today. 

Lotus USA is run by morons. Last time they "advertised" the new Evora 400 back in 2016, the CEO was driving around the country on an Euro Spec Evora 400 stating that it was a brilliant way to show the car. He would stop at certain dealers but they never promoted that either, so I never knew they were in South Florida until I read a comment on the Lotustalk site. Also, they paid for a magazine ad where it showed a Yellow Evora 400 and in big bold black letters said : "The new Lotus Evora 400, is not for you" right under in smaller print that said the opposite...idiots HAHAHA.

 

Edited by CharlieBrown

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I know enthusiasts who simply will not consider a Lotus.  They give the marque low marks for reliability.  We both know the dealer network in the USA is limited and there have been complaints here about long waits for parts.  All of that impacts what people want.

I previously stated that 1200-1300 of my car were exported to the USA.  Guess how many are listed on CarGurus right now?  The answer is 19 which is only 4 more than the number of manual Evora 400s at the same site.  

I was using my car as an example that limited production numbers is no guarantee of demand.  Similarly, the limited number of Evora 400s in the USA is no guarantee that they will be in high demand in the future either, particularly if Lotus continues to be practically invisible in the USA

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I didn't intend to predict the direction of resale prices per se but I'll kick in my 2 cents  as it bears on what the immediate future holds.

 I'm inclined to agree with Ccd that 400 prices will remain depressed for the foreseeable future.  What is "foreseeable?"  I don't know but I think it extends well past the arrival of the GT.  At this point we're unlikely to see a rebound in prices until the cars are no longer in production.  This is an irony!   I can go into detail or we can just look at the strange way supply and demand works in the extreme weirdness that is the  used exotic car market.  In any case, one guess is as good as another but here's why I think the GT won't help used prices. I would be delighted to be wrong. 

* This introduction is not being managed any better that that of the 400. If anything, it feels more disconnected. I fear the initial run of cars will not be sold out resulting in vehicles held in dealer or factory  inventory, ultimately leading to price cutting to shift stock.  If the differences in price between the GT and the 400 can be sustained indeed the 400 could benefit.  But I don't think that's how it will roll out.  

*We can intuit that they are not investing in the current models or the US market which comes across as an unwillingness or inability to promote them   Who knows how much support they intend to provide down the road for these last of breed vehicles?  Great things may be coming but well over a year later nothing has changed.

Lotus must up their game.  It's not about the fundamental appeal of the Evora.   It's about the ownership experience and the perception that buying a Lotus is  risky business. The more expensive the cars are, the harder it will be to shift them in America unless the situation improves visibly.  

 Lotus has to love these cars (and us by extension)  as much as we do.  It's not complex.

Finally!   My car is fine, tons of fun (well, ton and a half actually). It's at it's best when I'm driving it and not ranting on a public forum.  

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'17 Evora 400 MT 

 

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CharlieBrown

The one thing we can agree on is that Lotus is dreaming if they think that adding a few carbon fiber bits will allow them to charge $120,000 plus for an Evora.  If that is all Lotus does, the car will be a crashing failure in the USA

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I asked the Lotus International marketing manager the question re the US market, and from memory his answer was until the new models come out there isn't enough product to expand the US network as yet.

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I guess deep inside they don't care about the US market.

Oh well, I will enjoy my Evora 400 like I did with my previous 2013 Evora NA and 2011 Elise R....and probably move out of the brand. I can't fathom to pay 120k+ for the Evora GT with only few Bhp more with bits of carbon fiber around and 2 years later be worth 80k at best.

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Not sure that Lotus doesn’t care about the US market.  Rather, it is a calculation on their part that the cost of getting the rest of their line-up road legal in the US is not justified by projected sales.  

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That sounds more like it and in a way quite understandable, right now they only have the new Evora GT to sell, even if they were to sell 200 or 250 per annum in the next year, it would not justify broadening the network... It seems they have lost a few dealers recently, lack of offer and support is definitely part of the problem. If they just push marketing a little bit it should help, but until they unveil the newish GT variant of the car, I don't expect things to change much.

As for the dealers asking prospective buyers to put deposit sight unseen, this is far from an unprecedented thing in the industry.

When it comes the price of the GT variant helping the the price of the 400 currently in the dealers lot to bounce back up, I just don't understand the logic. Anytime a new model is introduced the older version price points takes a hit...

Right now, Lotus USA should be busy behind the scene, which in a way matters most, they need to relaunch the brand and can't really mess it up, I trust the new management and ownership will take special care of the US market when they are good and ready.  If they use Volvo dealers  to bolster the network, we won't even see it coming, all the dealers would have to sign NDAs. 

However the first of the new cars could be unveiled  soon (in prototype guise) if they maintained JMG sport car plan. Actually. It could be unveiled as early as the Shanghai motor show in april if Geely feels like peacocking a bit, or Goodwood if they want to make a splash. They are now in the timeframe for a presentation for a car to be on sale in 2020 but if they want to sell the Evora GT in the US, they may want to give it as much time as possible and therefore push any presentation of the new cars as far as they can,  either way time will tell.

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Lotus, as I see it, has two choices in terms of expanding its dealer network. If they are going to continue to rely on and expand the current network, they have to have a wider range of cars in the US.  One car will not cut it.  The other option is to position their cars as “halo” models for Volvo and put their cars in select Volvo dealerships.  The problem with the second option is that is does not set the company up to compete with the likes of Ferrari and I suspect Geely understands this.

So my best guess is that bringing the Lotus 400 GT is a stop gap measure to try to hang onto what’s left of your dealership network in the US and to maintain whatever name recognition you might have in the US as well until the newer models arrive.

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€2 million, cool-looking (well, perhaps not front), electric hypercar, stylish interior, 0-60mph in 'under' 2 seconds, 1874bhp, very decent range - Pininfarina's Battista, just unveiled at Geneva. 

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/pininfarina/battista_pf0/

 

Your move, Lotus...

 

 

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Wow another one for the gazilionare members of the More Money Than Brains club, that looks like a 488.

 

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Hum Lynk & Co and Geely Group Motorsport go to team Cyan Racing have just presented the road going version of their WTCR racer the Lynk and Co 03 sedan 

lynk-co-03-cyan-concept.jpg

Ok arguably not exactly a looker but this is not what this car is about, it is pretty much an homologation special. The interesting tidbit of info is what GGM and Cyan Racing got to do with the 2 liter turbocharged and supercharged 4 cylinder Drive-E engine, which is extracting 508 nm between 4500 and 7000 rpm and 528bhp at a ridiculous 7800 rpm!!! These numbers are ballistics. A turbocharged engine pushing until 7800 rpm, I'm sorry but WTF?  Oh and yeah it would be road legal in Europe and China (passing emissions somehow!?!) 

Now I know it is just a 4 cylinder albeit one with unbelievable characteristics on paper not quite the V6, V8 or V10 of the competition but it would make for a very decent entry level engine in let's say an esprit successor.

Also should one mad engineer cast a V shaped engine block  and were to put 2 heads on it you'd theoreticaly get a 4 liter V8 with over 1000hp on tap. Ok it will never happen but what if, what if...

Also, not Lotus but I think Mr Chapman would smile:

 

Edited by NedaSay
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6 hours ago, jonwat said:

Today's Times report:

Phil Popham, new chief executive of the Norfolk-based Lotus, arguably the forgotten marque of the British industry, told The Timesthat he would unveil plans for new models at the upcoming Shanghai motor show. Lotus produces 1,600 cars a year.

The wheels and cogs are now in motion, not too much longer to wait...  

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Wow what a great appointment, there are some great things to come from Lotus in the near future, it’s been a long time since anyone could have said that, me for one can not wait.

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This news also indicates that there might be a big difference between past offerings and future offerings.  The new SUV could be more like the Lambo Urus and the other models could take direct aim at Lambo, McLaren and Ferrari with a price point to match.

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13 hours ago, jonwat said:

Today's Times report:

Phil Popham, new chief executive of the Norfolk-based Lotus, arguably the forgotten marque of the British industry, told The Timesthat he would unveil plans for new models at the upcoming Shanghai motor show. Lotus produces 1,600 cars a year.

 

@Bibs, dear CEO of our hearts will you be making the trip to the Shanghai Autoshow?

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20 minutes ago, NedaSay said:

@Bibs, dear CEO of our hearts will you be making the trip to the Shanghai Autoshow?

I think he was last seen doing his pre flight checks!

 

0_Screenshot_20190306-225253.png

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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On 05/03/2019 at 11:13, NedaSay said:

at a ridiculous 7800 rpm!!! These numbers are ballistics. A turbocharged engine pushing until 7800 rpm, I'm sorry but WTF?

What's so shocking with a turbocharged engine making it's way to not far from 8k rpm?

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The hypercar market is really surprising me, to be honest - Lotus's offering is going to be compared with the Aston Martin Valkyrie and AM-RB 003; the Pininfarina Battista (which seems perhaps the most similar and direct rival); Koenigsegg Jeska; and, undoubtedly, whatever hypercars Ferrari, McLaren (and perhaps even Bugatti) are planning for 2-3 years year's time. The group tests should make for some incredible TV at least! I would never have guessed that the £1-3 million market would have so much product. With them all offering staggering acceleration, 1-2,000 bhp and insane looks, I wonder what will really differentiate the ones that stand out.

 

I'm more interested in seeing which price points/markets they will be aiming their 'regular' sports/super cars - £200-250,000 against the McLaren720S and Ferrari Tributo; £120-150,000 against the McLaren 540/570, Porsche 911 Turbo/Turbo S and AMG GTs; £100-120,000  against the Porsche 911 Carreras and Aston Martin Vantage? 

 

I wonder what, if anything, will be offered below that price point - perhaps a new Elise/Exige in the £45-70,000 range to compete against the Porsche Boxster, BMW Z4 and Toyota Supra. I really hope they retain something of an entry-level car to keep the brand accessible to existing owners/enthusiasts but I won't be shocked if they don't.

 

I guess we'll find out in April - fingers crossed!

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