free hit
counters
Future of Lotus - Page 61 - Lotus / Motoring / Cars Chat - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
Advantage

Future of Lotus

Recommended Posts

On 05/03/2019 at 12:36, Bee said:

€2 million, cool-looking (well, perhaps not front), electric hypercar, stylish interior, 0-60mph in 'under' 2 seconds, 1874bhp, very decent range - Pininfarina's Battista, just unveiled at Geneva. 

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/pininfarina/battista_pf0/

 

Your move, Lotus...

 

 

I wonder how they can keep getting tyres to stick when that much mumbo is applied to them?

And I'll ask the question.

Where does one hope to be able to use that sort of performance?

At what point will drivers be expected to have the fitness level of a jet pilot and a G suit to assist with leaving the lights after downing a latte at the local Cafe Bistro?


All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.
On 05/03/2019 at 16:13, NedaSay said:

These numbers are ballistics. A turbocharged engine pushing until 7800 rpm, I'm sorry but WTF?  Oh and yeah it would be road legal in Europe and China (passing emissions somehow!?!) 

I'm no engine guru by a long way but my understanding was that turbos work well only within a smallish window and when you step outside of that window the performance drops off very steeply.  So they are either good at the bottom end, middle or top end.  So I think is very possible to have a turbo that can spin to 7800 rpm but it may have a lot of lag and be rubbish on the bottom and mid end which is where the supercharger comes in to fill in the deficit while the turbo spins up.  I suspect the torque curve won't be flat like a typical turbo engine, lower to mid revs it will be relatively linear as the supercharger is doing its stuff and then step up when the turbo kicks in and then flat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

4 hours ago, ramjet said:

I wonder how they can keep getting tyres to stick when that much mumbo is applied to them?

 

As long as you don't expect them to last 5k miles, a lot of things are possible 😉

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, ramjet said:

Where does one hope to be able to use that sort of performance?

I’m not sure that is actually the point of these cars. It’s more about the bragging rights: both for the manufacturer and the owners (either down the ‘pub’ or as they cruise around Harrods). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep agree with Jonny, I think its mostly about the prestige of owning it and having the odd fun day round a track in a very special car rather than trying to set the fastest time around Imola or wherever.

I'm sure some of the people are pretty good drivers; I mean having that amount of money and an interest in fast cars ... surely you are going to sign up to a few tack days, experience days and races etc, so some will have a reasonable amount of experience and skill in track driving.  But compared to a pro driver they are probably lacking by someway so I don't think many if any are going to be able to extract the full potential of these monsters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, electro_boy said:

I'm no engine guru by a long way but my understanding was that turbos work well only within a smallish window and when you step outside of that window the performance drops off very steeply.  So they are either good at the bottom end, middle or top end.  So I think is very possible to have a turbo that can spin to 7800 rpm but it may have a lot of lag and be rubbish on the bottom and mid end which is where the supercharger comes in to fill in the deficit while the turbo spins up.  I suspect the torque curve won't be flat like a typical turbo engine, lower to mid revs it will be relatively linear as the supercharger is doing its stuff and then step up when the turbo kicks in and then flat.

That's the thing, the fact that they are able to extract that much while respecting the regulations is just mind boggling. Just look at the slew of premium hot hatches from Mercedes-Benz, Audi and co, they all top out at some 1500 rpm below the "claimed" numbers this engine is able to get. Not only is this turboed engine able to push high hp way up the rev range but it can also apply some serious torque 504nm from 4,500 and 7,000 rpm with some of it available down low and able to comply with emissions... Most turboed engine top out at 6000rpm or 6500rpm, Up to now Volvo and Polestar topped out at 6000rpm. Yes Mclaren and Ferrari are pushing theirs way higher but we are talking V8 with quite a lot of grunt naturally already. But this is a 2 liter 4cylinder, not exactly a torque machine on its own, Yes there's probably a small electric supercharger lying somewhere doing its thing down the rev range... Still this is mind boggling to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 07/03/2019 at 17:48, Jeanvm said:

All these HYPERCARS it's like a ticket to the Moon or Mars, absurd.

I totally agree but the way it’s going a trip to the moon will be cheaper 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.ft.com/content/a889f410-467e-11e9-a965-23d669740bfb

Quote

New Lotus Cars boss Phil Popham has launched a major turnround after a cash injection of several billion pounds into the lossmaking brand from new owner Geely. With losses mounting, the industry veteran, who took over last October, is facing a significant challenge, despite the group’s rich motoring heritage as a pioneer of Formula One racing cars and the use of its vehicles in James Bond films. Losses at the company in the 12 months to March 2018 grew to £36.3m following several writedowns, with accounts for the nine months to December last year expected to show a further £16m of pre-tax losses. “I’d seen the potential comeback of Lotus before. I wanted to make sure there was substance behind it [before taking the job], and it was very clear that there was,” Mr Popham said in the first interview since starting the post back in the autumn. It has been a lack of investment and poor sales that have hit the company in the past, which Mr Popham hopes can be rectified with the help of new Chinese owners Geely that took a majority stake in the company last year. The group, which will invest “billions” into the business over the next five years, poached Mr Popham, a former Jaguar Land Rover executive, from Sunseeker Yachts to spearhead the revival. The Geely investment will allow Lotus to refresh its sports car line-up, expand into new vehicle types, launch electric cars, hire more engineers, and revamp its ageing factory in Hethel in Norfolk, Mr Popham said. The scheme will see Lotus’ output rise from 2,000 cars a year to about 5,000, with additional manufacturing facilities needed in the future as the company widens its portfolio to include sport utility vehicles, grand tourer cars and saloons. “At some point, we will need to manufacture outside of Hethel,” he said. Options include a new UK site, extending Hethel, or building elsewhere in the world. While rival carmakers cram more and more technology into their vehicles, Lotus remains stubbornly analogue — its cars do not have keyless ignition, while two of its three mainstream models lack power steering, to allow greater engagement with the road when driving. Yet the result, a visceral dynamism to its vehicles that comes alive on undulating country roads, is too niche, conceded Mr Popham. Recommended Inside Business Jonathan Ford The real problem for carmakers isn’t Brexit or China, it’s weight “It’s fair to say, I think, that we need to broaden the appeal of the brand,” he said, adding people should be comfortable using the vehicles every day. His role as chief executive of Lotus Cars sees him run all aspects of the business and report to Feng Qingfeng, who is chief executive of Lotus Group and the chief technical officer of the wider Geely group. The deepening pre-tax losses to £36.3m to March 2018 compared with from £12.2m in the previous year were due to writing down the value of tooling used to build current models. The company also had to pay back a previous government grant because it did not hire sufficient number of people. However, revenues rose from £83.7m to £100.3m in the 12 months to March, while underlying earnings before interest and other measures rose to £2.2m from a loss of £1.5m a year earlier. Geely is not focused on making a quick profit from the business, with no plans to extract dividends from the unit for the duration of the plan, though Mr Popham is keen to stem the losses in order to use Geely’s funds to invest in new technologies rather than prop up the current business. Lotus will automate parts of its plant, which currently hand builds many parts of its cars, as well as refurbishing much of the site and buildings that have sat part-constructed on the site for years because of under-investment by past owners. A key question for Lotus is how quickly the group embraces electric vehicles, which seem inevitable as the future of motoring but goes against the company’s core skills of building lightweight vehicles. “At the end, you can build a fairly light-ish car”, Mr Popham said, explaining that heavy batteries are compensated for by losing heavy parts of the internal combustion engine. The other advantage is that electric cars, with batteries built into their base, have low centres of gravity, improving their handling, he added. The company did make the first electric sports car, collaborating with Tesla to fit a battery to the shell of a Lotus Elise to make the Roadster in 2010, but since then has sat out of the technology race. Access to Geely, which is planning a suit of electric vehicles through its Volvo, Polestar, Lynk & Co and Geely brands, allows Lotus to use battery technology from the wider family, reducing its development costs. It also has access to a wide pool of engineers, including 20,000 at Geely’s headquarters, but will also double the number of engineers on its site to about 500 this year, compared with 180 that were employed when Geely bought the company at the start of 2018.

 

  • Like 2

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, KAS-118 said:

Article in Autocar - new car before new architecture 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/all-new-lotus-model-due-next-year

 

https://www.ft.com/content/a889f410-467e-11e9-a965-23d669740bfb

 

Nothing really new in the article and as @Frimley111R said a lot of guess work. Next year car is an Evora "evo", and there will only be one instead of the two models mentioned at some point. Now I hope this car will come in coupe and roadster form... Something leads me to think that it will take them longer to get the next gen cars.

Some will be put at ease by the comments of Popham on the price point remaining pretty much unchanged ; Lotus will remain somewhat accessible but will very easily go hunting on supercar and hypercar territory from its current positioning. And good to know that they have "billions" (as in more than one) to work with...  

Maintaining the connection to Toyota is interesting as I would have thought that having access to the Geely "homegrown" 4 cyls and V6 would have allowed Lotus to get their own "bespoke" powertrain.

Changing the aluminium bonded structure to something else... for some reason I don't really see happening unless the cost of carbon fiber construction or other polymer gets below the price of sheet metal... Everybody is moving toward aluminium bonding at the price point and volume Lotus is aiming at... the SUV may high a mix of boron steel and aluminium but when it comes to the sport cars, this construction is pretty tough to beat on price/volume /investement ratio I believe.  

 

Edited by NedaSay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me this is the important statement:

Quote

We will build cars in the future with the DNA of today. They’ll have the same performance and handling, but will appeal to a wider audience. Our barriers to entry now are the cars’ practicality, the ingress and egress, the day-to-day use like ergonomics and connectivity. They will improve, but absolutely retain the purity.

There has been much speculation about which direction Lotus will go with the new owners.  Good to hear the core values why Lotus people like Lotus cars is going to be kept.

 

Quote

Changing the aluminium bonded structure to something else...

I think I read somewhere that the Alu tub of the Elise weights an extra 4kg compared to a carbon tub. I think there are lower hanging fruit to aim for when optimising the car before they need to look at chassis materials.  Trying to find the source but can’t find it at the moment.  Maybe it was conversation with an engineer when I was at the LDA?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, electro_boy said:

For me this is the important statement:

There has been much speculation about which direction Lotus will go with the new owners.  Good to hear the core values why Lotus people like Lotus cars is going to be kept.

 

I think I read somewhere that the Alu tub of the Elise weights an extra 4kg compared to a carbon tub. I think there are lower hanging fruit to aim for when optimising the car before they need to look at chassis materials.  Trying to find the source but can’t find it at the moment.  Maybe it was conversation with an engineer when I was at the LDA?

it was a JMG comparing the Elise tub to the 4C tub the publication was Autocar I think.

I think that mixing bonded aluminium extrusion and aluminium casting will further reduce the weight of all future models across the board, at this point in time I think there maybe more to save in front or read subframes or the body panels than in the main chassis itself. With support from Geely Lotus is poised to get a lot of "parts bin" components that it previously got "off the shelves" made to measure. 

Edited by NedaSay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, NedaSay said:

it was a JMG comparing the Elise tub to the 4C tub the publication was Autocar I think.

I think that mixing bonded aluminium extrusion and aluminium casting will further reduce the weight of all future models across the board, at this point in time I think there maybe more to save in front or read subframes or the body panels than in the main chassis itself. With support from Geely Lotus is poised to get a lot of "parts bin" components that it previously got "off the shelves" made to measure. 

 

1 hour ago, electro_boy said:

For me this is the important statement:

There has been much speculation about which direction Lotus will go with the new owners.  Good to hear the core values why Lotus people like Lotus cars is going to be kept.

 

I think I read somewhere that the Alu tub of the Elise weights an extra 4kg compared to a carbon tub. I think there are lower hanging fruit to aim for when optimising the car before they need to look at chassis materials.  Trying to find the source but can’t find it at the moment.  Maybe it was conversation with an engineer when I was at the LDA?

I was a January 2018 Autocar interview with JMG

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Me for one can not wait for next years new model , obviously based on the Evora platform and why not a great starting point and what looks like finally to put the brand where it should be with its competitors regarding the latest tech at the same time still having its core values.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I imagine this is pretty much going to be a reimagining of the Evora with better fit and finish and more competitive interior tech/refinement, perhaps a new name to evoke more media interest. That's all ok with me and I suspect it would also herald in a series of more stripped back raw variants further down the line. Will this be their first production car to run a hybrid power unit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep I think in the mid term that’s all they need to do.  Just improve the inside a bit more to broaden the appeal of the car to more mass market and to get the higher sales figures coming in.   Shouldn’t distract the designers and engineers too much from the fully reworked models due a bit later on in the future.

Dont know if they’ve had enough time to get a drive unit ready for production?  Don’t know how long these things take.  It’ll be great if they have something but personally I don’t expect it and don’t think they need to for this interim model.  For the later models the game might have moved on when they eventually come out so possibly everyone will be making sporty hydrid cars?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They could have an evora hybrid out and about and we would have no idea.

I wonder if the car will wear the Evora moniker, in a way it would be better if it did not and was coming along to supplement the Evora...In my opinion it would allow to refocus the Evora as the 2+2 GT and get the new car to be more supercar like, keep both cars around, bring the entry level price of evora back down a bit all the while providing the car with all the refinement the brand new car will get. Make the new car a pure two seater and use one of the already registered moniker in the bank.  

They do have the money to roll out an entirely new model and a mark III evora now, I think they should. 

So I anticipate a V6 but will it be a Toyota or a Geely? And if it is a V6 will it come as transverse or longitudinal layout with an upgraded 6speed manual gearbox? a new 8 speed auto or a 7speed DCT ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-features/why-lotus-wont-be-building-an-suv--yet/39817

 

Before the new architecture we're likely to see a switch from Toyota to Volvo-sourced powerplants - the brand's three-cylinder 1.5-litre engine could be a particularly happy fit with a lightweight Lotus - beyond that, electrification will play an increasing role, something the group resources make far easier. But Popham also confirmed that at least some of the next-generation cars will remain conventionally powered; lightweight remains the most important of the brand's core values. "Electrification is on the agenda," he says, "but it's not going to be the only powertrain for us."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm surprised that what stood out to me as the quote if the Autocar interview with Mr. Popham has not been yet mentioned I believe. And that was around financial accessabikity of the new cars to owners and how he did not wish to see the price point raised. If he can achieve this then I do think that would be tremendous for the future prospects of the company and many of us as current owners 

  • Like 2

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m going to make a prediction: no Evora GT Sport will reach US shores; there will be no 2019 MY Lotus in America.  My guess is that Lotus has made the decision that the current Evora cannot sell in the number they need in the US.  And they could very well be right as I’ve read that Lotus sold only 36 cars here in 2018.  Instead, Lotus will begin its reboot in the US with this new car.  I expect the biggest change to be a greatly improved interior and maybe a bump in hp.  My other guess is that the age of “raw” stripped down cars is over for Lotus.  Raw doesn’t sell cars in the numbers that Lotus needs to survive and thrive.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Evora GT may make it. My guess is this was maybe a stop gap for the stop gap to appease the current US Dealers. Honestly an Evora or Evora-like with more HP (500?) and modern interior with Lotus version of Volvo ICE would be nice to see.

I agree I thing the era of a raw stripped down car may be over. However I am sure they we release limited edition stripped down versions of most of their sports car product line like most manufacturers do.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It will be interesting to see what they deliver as the stop-gap car, before the all-new models arrive, as it will very much be taken as a statement of intent from the world's motoring press and interested potential buyers. It does sound most likely to be based on the Evora platform so I'm genuinely intrigued to see what they have up their sleeves; they really have to nail it because it will be expected to stand up (excel against?) against the competition in every sense, not just 'feel', ride and handling. I wonder whether we're going to see a mock-up, concept etc. at Shanghai...

 

It's fantastic news about keeping the cars at similar price points: an Elise (or similar) at £50-60,000 - going head-to-head with Boxsters, the new Z4/Supra etc. - that keeps its core attributes but adds a quality interior, reasonable access/egress and enough practicality to make it a genuine daily driver... That would surely sell like hot cakes!

 

I'm surprised about the lack of SUV though - definitely sounds like that won't be coming any time soon. It has to be the right decision, however, if they truly want the eventual product to be worthy of the badge...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s great that Lotus is doing something with the Evora.  Their luck in timing this car is not so great.  Porsche has the 992 model 911 which the press is gushing over and there will certainly be more models of that car coming in 2020.  And the 800 pound gorilla in the room is the mid-engined Corvette.  Even with current pricing, Lotus will likely be going head to head with both of these cars and that is going to be a tough slog.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...