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1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

Sorry not true. I recently bought an S90 as a company mileage cruiser and the build quality so far is outstanding. My Dealer specifically told me that the S90s are built in China then transported by train to Europe. No squeaks. No rattles. Very soft leather. Very impressed.

As for the Jap Crap comment well people still roll out Lots of trouble.... After 50 years!

China may have its problems with local QC, corruption, et al. But Western manufacturers are little better with their so called premium product brands, including Audi, BMW, VW, Land Rover and in some cases Mercedes, constantly languishing at or near the bottom quartile for reliability.

Oh, sorry, yes, corruption you say. Hmm, so you've not heard about dieselgate, the lies and manipulation re emmissions and mpg and the subsequent fines to many so called premium brands, mostly German?

But hey, let's just bash the Chinese and rely on good old prejudice. After all it was not many years ago we laughed at anyone who bought a Kia or heaven forbid a Hyundai but the Koreans have rapidly progressed in design AND quality. A look and drive of their range now and their cars are the equal, better for reliability, of their Western counterparts for the money. Take away the snobbery around the so called Premium badge of VW, BMW etc and you really do need to question again the whole VFM v spec v quality thing.  Granted the BMW 5+.and other "exec spec" cars are very good but look at the price premium. Oh, and they do break down. My friends 6 month old M5, a near £100k car, has just been diagnosed with injector failures to multiple cylinders. The warranty claim is eye watering.

I've said it before on here. If my S90, designed and built under Chinese Volvo ownership is anything to go by, then Lotus will be producing some very special cars in the near future (not that the current cars are not special). My view is that the future for Lotus is bright. The future is Orange. Signature Orange, of course!

I'm not bashing the Chinese on prejudice, just first experience and knowledge. The Chinese don't work on contracts its who know and bribe you need to have the whole local communities hierarchy bribed and on board including the local Cops.

Check the Vin number of the S90, it will tell where it was made and it will be in Sweden  . BM X5s are manufactured in South Carolina, Mercs are made in the US and south Africa ..Honda Thailand and the US etc and as for AUDI wont touch one.

Toyota and Lexus regularly win the US owners reliability awards.

I have a pre Geely XC60 and its been rock solid and the service has been great including a factory recall for a belt idler

The Koreans have come a long way and are now we respected here. Great Wall now Havel are Chinese and are cheap for a reason and second hand forget it.

Sorry its not just my generation here in Australia that will say the same thing, Chinese products leave a lot to be desired.

 

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My Dad had a Toyota Corolla when I was a kid......probably about 45 years ago now.

He got fed up with his Austin Maxi being an absolute pile of crap and decided to go for a Jap wagon.

I still remember one of our neighbours coming up to him and saying that he should be ashamed of himself for not buying British.  This would be the same neighbour that my dad would frequently help to bump start his Morris Marina!!

It's a changing world and I suspect that we will view Chinese cars very differently within the next 10 years.

 

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42 minutes ago, au-yt said:

The Chinese don't work on contracts its who know and bribe you need to have the whole local communities hierarchy bribed and on board including the local Cops.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7528217/13-5-tonnes-gold-worth-520-million-corrupt-Chinese-officials-home.html

19191866-7528217-image-m-11_157000543288 19191868-7528217-image-m-9_1570005424274

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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So @au-yt, @Bibs, are you pointing out that only the Chinese are corrupt?

Was not that long ago we had Rolls Royce, BAE etc in the dock for dodgy deals in the middle east. A region notorious for the use of "agents" with many palms that need greasing etc.

Don't get me started on UK companies and dodgy deals in South America.

The global mining industry is shadey. Australians should know all about that.

The Chinese may be masters, but they learnt from others too.

Plenty of UK public figures done for corruption. Maybe not on the scale of that one Chinese guy in modern times, but if you go back to the Empire similar business practices and fortunes were made not necessarily legally, and on the broken backs of children and the poor. China is just catching up.

Oh how quickly we forget or forgive our own history, even when it was not that long ago. DeLorean anyone? 😜

As for Chinese stuff being cheap shit. No shit Sherlock. People buy cheap, knowing it's cheap. Then butch and whine re the quality. FFS, really? Don't buy cheap in the first place unless you're happy buying twice, thrice etc...

Yes some Merc cars are built in the USA. The general view was/is that they  were crap compared to the others. They've got better, but still not 100%.

Good job our houses are not made out of glass.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, au-yt said:

Check the Vin number of the S90, it will tell where it was made and it will be in Sweden

I take it Volvo have no idea where they build their cars then? I'll check my VIN and you can check your facts. Ok?

https://www.media.volvocars.com/global/en-gb/media/pressreleases/208624/first-china-built-volvo-s90-sedans-arrive-in-europe-via-ground-breaking-rail-link4

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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Could we amend that, regardless of brand, all these China-bashing posts were most likely written on PC's or mobile phones built in China! Yes, that includes iPhones!


If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

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And by people who mostly drive and applaud German quality built cars whilst steadfastly refusing to acknowledge that said cars often languish in the bottom quartile for reliability, and quietly change the subject when you mention their part in Dieselgate and other illegal practices.

It seems that Brand snobbery, clever marketing and perception is the key, not reality. Or is it just the old east v west rivalry? Either, I agree with you that it is time to move on.

 

 

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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We all know the Chinese preside over making the best cars 

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Only here once

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4 hours ago, C8RKH said:

And by people who mostly drive and applaud German quality built cars whilst steadfastly refusing to acknowledge that said cars often languish in the bottom quartile for reliability, and quietly change the subject when you mention their part in Dieselgate and other illegal practices.

It seems that Brand snobbery, clever marketing and perception is the key, not reality. Or is it just the old east v west rivalry? Either, I agree with you that it is time to move on.

 

 

From my point of view as one time owner of so called "dieselgate" car I can comment that I did not suffer that at all. I got the car with the promised power&consumtion figures and had no problems with Mot, so I had nothing to complain about. 

Reliability issue is bit more complicated. For the people who often change New car main issue is absence of minor problems, which require workshop visit during the warranty period.

People like me who generally drives from 150 to 350 thousand miles before changing the new or newer car, more important proof of quality is the durability of the engine, gearbox and other expensive components. Small problems which can be solved withinh first 100 thousand miles are not that important. 

Every brand and models seems to have it own problems areas. Mercedes it was air suspension, in this current ride Phaeton it is the wheel bearings. They seem to last only about 60 thousand each before making noise. 

I have not heard much negative comments about chinese Volvos.

 


"Older I get, faster I was"

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https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/volvo-geely-form-stand-alone-engine-business

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Volvo Cars and Zhejiang Geely Holding Group plan to carve out their engine operations and merge them into a stand-alone unit.

The new business will develop next-generation hybrid powertrains and internal combustion engines for group brands such as Volvo, Lotus, Lynk & CO and Geely Auto as well as third parties, according to a release.

Volvo CEO Hakan Samuelsson said the move helps further accelerate the Swedish automaker’s push to have battery-driven cars account for half of its global sales by 2025.

“Volvo has taken another decisive step toward electrification by adjusting its business structure,” Samuelsson told Automotive News Europe.

The  merger should provide lower-cost access to the powertrains that are expected to account for the other 50 percent of the company’s sales in the mid-2020s, he said.

"Because half of our cars will be hybrids [by 2025], we are securing the necessary resources to further develop [them],” Samuelsson said.

When asked how much Volvo stands to save Samuelsson said. "We haven't quantified it, but it will be huge. We are at least doubling the Volvo volume and that alone results in a significant cost savings."

Volvo sold more than 640,000 vehicles globally last year and aims to boost that volume to 800,000 by 2020.

With Volvo’s 2018 sales, Geely Group, which also includes UK-based taxi maker LEVC and Malaysian automaker Proton, had a worldwide volume of 2 million vehicles last year. “That will continue to grow rapidly in the future,” Samuelsson predicted.

Volvo says that what might be even more important than the merger's potential savings is that the move safeguards the company’s development resources, particularly engineers who would have seen their budgets squeezed as Volvo prioritizes full-electric drivetrains over hybrid and traditional powertrains.

“It’s likely they would not have gotten the resources they need to maintain their high level of competency in that area. With this change we avoid this,” Samuelsson said.

The new business is expected to be made up of approximately 3,000 employees from Volvo Cars and about 5,000 from Geely’s combustion engine operations.

The functions that will be part of the new company will include r&d, procurement, manufacturing, IT and finance.

No layoffs are anticipated because of the merger, Volvo said. Samuelsson said job losses might have been unavoidable if Volvo and Geely had waited to make the change.

“We have an advantage by doing this very fundamental restructuring very early because the market for combustion engines will not grow in the future," he said. “We are doing exactly the right thing, which is utilizing synergies. That's what you do when you are dealing with a shrinking market."

Volvo and Geely still need to negotiate the changes with their unions and get approvals from competition authorities to form the business, which will become a unit of the overall holding company.

 

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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Very positive. Geely appear to be very well run and are making some positive decisions.


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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Agreed the powers that be at Volvo and Geely do know what they are doing. Even with an event horizon darkening somewhat in the short to medium term in mainland China, there have been no knee-jerk reaction, just adjustment made and profit warning issued in a timely manner, long term goals remain achievable using the current plan and decision like these make so much sense.

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I think the largest issues in dealing with Chinese goods is not the lack of quality.  As previous posters have already said, you can get what you pay for from Chinese (and Taiwanese) manufacturing.  If you want goods that excel, they will cost more.  If you want cheap, they will oblige.

I rather think a greater danger in dealing with Chinese entities is intellectual property theft.  That's the more usual scenario in a "wild east meets wild west"  manufacturing joint venture.  Quality is scalable in Chinese manufacturing. You get what you pay for, and so do they plus they get your design and feature sets.  This is an ongoing issue and maybe the only area where I  see eye to eye with our (otherwise humiliating and feckless) current administration.   China is frequently  predatory as respects intellectual property.  Of course with Geely, that's off the table since they purchased Lotus' expertise outright and have nothing to hide in that regard.  Chinese manufactured Lotus parts are likely to be every bit as good as top Japanese and Korean quality and that should be quite acceptable. 

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'17 Evora 400 MT 

 

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As a Radio Amateur who is forced to use Chinese vacuum tubes I can tell you the standard quality yield is horrible out of the box. You pay extra for post mfg quality testing to sort. Unfortunately nobody else makes tubes these days so the incentive is low without competition. The US vendor I go through has a a good warranty and excellent service to compensate for the lower %. (they advance replace and pay shipping both ways). Once sorted they are fine, but the delay in sorting out the defects is annoying.

 

 

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I'm no expert on tubes but basically the last US made ones were in around 1988. That's 31 years ago. The current new tubes are descended are they not from the ones made back in the space race days by Russia, in Russian and Chinese factories. Since about 1990 there has been no real tube development or enhancements and any volume need there was (remember these used to be made in their billions) is long gone. Rather than bemoan the crap quality maybe you should celebrate the diversity of Chinese manufacturing that means you can still buy something that is in effect 30 years out of date, and at a reasonable price.

Looking at it that way puts it into a different context, no? I hope in 20 years time some Chinese company is still making spare parts to keep my Evora on the road lol....


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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The subject of my post was related to quality control. The Russian (Svetlana) and US manufacturers had a handle on that. The Chinese don't seem to care. Yes, it's good someone still makes tubes, but that doesn't mean I should celebrate their lack of concern over quality control. They should follow the Japanese quality ethic and we all win. Quality should no be an option. If it costs more to implement  so be it. Luckily the vast majority of tubes are still available in NOS stockpiles, but no so much the power amplifier tubes. (both audio and RF.)  Would you buy a Lotus that keeps having engine meltdowns and multiple trailer-ed trips back to a distant dealer to hopefully fix? (fingers crossed)

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Many people would and have, on here, argued that is their experience of Lotus cars lol. My own dealer is a 120 mile round trip.

It was not so long ago all you heard about was "Jap crap". Now they are benchmark for quality. Lol, funny how things / peoples perception change.

Anyway, I'll get back on topic and based on my Geely Volvo I think the future of Lotus is in sound hands.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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Geely products leave not much to be desired already, early reviews on their western offering point to perceived quality level higher than Kia/Hyundai current offering in terms of fit and finish ; plastic quality not being exactly Volvo' spec but assembly being very high. This is not surprising knowing that All cars are partly engineered by CEVT in Sweden by a sino-swedish team. Lotus recently appointed a procurement manager based at CEVT in Gotenburg.

Mutualising the legacy ICE is going to push the envelop even further, this is no bad thing for Lotus.

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It’s actually only partly accurate to say Lotus will be using Volvo engines. The plan really calls for Volvo Cars and Geely to merge their internal combustion engine operations into one unit, then Lotus will draw off those combined resources.”

ie old news. 

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Will the new logo be used on the badges for upcoming models only? I'm yet to see pictures of a car wearing the new logo

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Long may they remain the case!
 

In the unlikely event that I buy the next ‘attainable’ Lotus sports car I will be swapping the badge for the one of the ‘old’ ones asap!

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I don't want a luxury car from Lotus  I have a Geely S90 for that.

However, nice to see Lotus and the brand getting positive press and accolades. Long may it continue and that 130, gosh it looks good from that angle! 😍


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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Well you could look at it as:

If you can afford an Evija, it's a luxury.


All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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