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5 hours ago, harrry said:

 I just hope that the all new platform remains relatively compact, particularly in terms of its width. ...

 

While I get that, one of the things that got me out of Elise was that basically I don't fit.  Its not all that much better in the Evora.  I'm a bit lardy but not THAT big and only 6 foot.  Elise platform with anyone my size or bigger in the passenger seat and we're rubbing shoulders hard and leaning on the door at the same time.  In the Evora its just the occasional brush if pushing on.  Its nice having my own space in the Esprit and M100 and I don't consider them "big" in the way the RangeRover is.  Its much the same with Plane/Train and many Theartre seats - too narrow and not somewhere I'd ever chose to put myself.  With obesity issues becoming more - er - widespread, it may not be a great idea to discount half the market.


Loving Lionel and Eleanor......missing Charlie and Sonny

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I'm a lardy bastard and fit in the Evora carbon buckets better than the thinner @Colin P (he just must have a wider arse!) And have no issues getting in to our out of my Evora 410 Sport.

My type116 (the vauxhall Elise lol) is dead easy too. I just unclip the roof. Fold it over in half. Step onto the seat and slide right in just like an F1 driver. Pull the roof over, clip it on and vroom vroom.

Is it stylish looking? Nope. But it actually adds to the experience and just helps to remind me that that car is just so different and focused (it's also highly modified with a 260bhp sc, variable steering rack, spitfire rods, nitrons, harness and lcd dash etc, so obviously not a DD.

I sort of get your point re the market, but I really do think the world would be a poorer place without cars of the like Lotus is a master at making...


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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Worry not guys, sizing, easier egress and ingress is one of the core characteristics JMG made clear in is business plan and Popham and Co are sticking to it. The new Evija is a clear indicator of what we can expect to get with the next gen cars. Lotus will still be compact but the cabin will be absolutely liveable,  Henry Catchpole from Carfection is one of the tallest car journalist out there, lanky but very tall and he had room to move about in the car. Matt Farrah from Smoking Tire is what can only be described as big and tall and yet he fits in the Evora GT with a helmet on without the need to take his shoes off and without have the seat nibling at the waist. Evora 's VVA is going to be the conceptual base for the next gen of cars, it will be heavily reengineered and  but deep down it will be an evolution of that so I think if you fit in 95%, you should be fine.

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the future shape of the skeleton production hall.

They just obtained official permission the 25th of september so if they want to start the production of Evija in late 2020 they seriously have to get crackin, the superstructure is already built but they still have to do the glazing and all the interior fittings.

https://info.south-norfolk.gov.uk/online-applications/files/3DBBA0D2BFE687393EB05BFEDE3F69F4/pdf/2019_1830-PROPOSED_ELEVATIONS_SHEET_1-6469744.pdf

DB would be proud it doesn't look like they changed much to the original layout 

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https://info.south-norfolk.gov.uk/online-applications/files/C5F8F02490F3D4C1605E229B2674FC84/pdf/2018_2147-PROPOSED_SITE_CAR_PARKING-6190094.pdf

Thank you @Chipp for sharing these with me, i've been nerding part of the day.

It is quite fun to see that despite a change in ownership and 2 changes in management some of Dany Bahar initiatives will come to fruition has it appears the skeleton has only be modified cosmetically.

Edited by NedaSay

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1 hour ago, Nathan Pitman said:

Thanks for the in depth reply @NedaSay, a couple of weeks you say?

Nein, nein, nein... Not a couple of weeks, certainly not, but each week that passes is getting us closer to the reveal, patience is still a virtue. 

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I wish I shared Nico's optimism but reluctantly share your view Nathan. The focus appears to have changed at Lotus. Many will say that's essential for them to achieve higher volume. But the focus and philosophy at Lotus was what made their cars special. Misunderstood by many but adored by a few. True pioneers don't follow the herd and are often unappreciated at the time. Often unsuccessful too. Human beings are naturally conservative resistant to change. To appeal to a broader market beyond Lotus will have to abandon much of what makes the current cars so special. I believe this is a fundamental mistake based on false assumptions. But car makers don't seem to have any imagination beyond copying what is successful elsewhere, when it comes to sports cars this usually means copy Porsche. SUVs plus unisex, conservatively styled all-rounders. Detune the cars on launch so you can add 10bhp with every new update. Much like the music industry you have clone after clone appearing until you have the great sea of samey blandness until someone comes along who changes the game. Or someone gets more widely recognized for having changed the game years ago.

To be 'misunderstood by many but adored by a few' is a marketing problem. As is the whole thing about people not even knowing what an Evora is. Lotus have limped on with a tiny marketing budget for many years. Imagine what the same cars could achieve with some smart, engaging, truthful, inspiring marketing behind them? The false assumption is that the current Lotus range do not sell in large numbers because they are not good enough cars. Or not what 'the market wants'. It's assumed that if you make a Cayman clone more people will want it because more people buy Caymans. As in, Porsche got it right, Lotus got it wrong. For a brief period in the 1990's TVRs outsold Porsches in the UK. It suddenly became deeply uncool to be seen driving a Porsche around the City. They went the way of the filofax. TVR didn't sell more cars by building a 'better' car or one that was more like Porsche. They benefitted by maintaining what made them different. Lotus could build a car twice as good as a Cayman and it still wouldn't sell at this moment in time. I happen to think the Elise is more than twice as involving to drive already. Until Lotus make the badge desireable to those beyond the hardcore car enthusiast they won't sell many SUVs either. However good. Again, principally a marketing problem. Lotus need to be using this time to lay the foundations of what is to come. Whether deserved or not Lotus have a reputation that needs to be addressed. They are unfairly thought of as poorly built, unreliable, fragile, plastic track toys. It's up to the marketing department to prove people wrong about this. Evija, if successful, should help elevate the brand but so much more needs to be done that will have a more direct effect on public perceptions. As said before I'd like to see regular updates from the factory, press releases, youtube videos, digital and print ads, showing the steps Lotus are taking to radically improve the quality of their cars. Dany Bahar hired an ex Porsche quality control manager. He didn't do anything as far as I remember but it was the right sort of statement to send out there. Imagine a series of youtube videos that detail the changes this new german quality control manager is bringing in. Vital stuff if Lotus is to be taken seriously as a volume sports car maker. Lotus can do a lot to counter the reputation for being unreliable by endurance racing, driving an Evora around the world, increasing the factory warranty, keeping driving an Evora, a 911 and an F-Type until one of them breaks, celebrate high mileage customer cars, start a high mileage league table, reward customers who use their cars. Make something of this 'For The Drivers' thing.

Instead we neither see nor hear anything about the current cars or what is going on at Hethel beyond the very occasional Evija video. Does anyone outside Guangzhou care about the Guangzhou motor show? I don't believe that's enough. Nor will launching a Cayman inspired car or SUV on its own. Maserati and Alfa Romeo have proven that just building an SUV will not guarantee a sales stampede by itself.

 

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All fascinating thoughts...…….Lotus Cars cannot survive long-term making less than 2,000 cars per annum, so something has to change. Tricky to have extensive marketing with that low volume, so perhaps the only avenue is to increase sales (which means new product). 

I am open-minded on the process, as my fear is the current situation is not sustainable; even given Lotus Cars legendary ability to survive despite everything.

I hear the cars will be softer, genuine touring cars. In time, I am sure these can be stripped out to appeal to those who currently buy Evora 410/430, if not Exige fans. First of all though, Lotus have to sell these touring cars to a wider audience; I have no idea if they can but I hope they do.

Justin

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3 hours ago, The Pits said:

Lotus can do a lot to counter the reputation for being unreliable by endurance racing, driving an Evora around the world, increasing the factory warranty, keeping driving an Evora, a 911 and an F-Type until one of them breaks, celebrate high mileage customer cars, start a high mileage league table, reward customers who use their cars. Make something of this 'For The Drivers' thing.

I like this idea. 

Justin

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3 hours ago, The Pits said:

Lotus can do a lot to counter the reputation for being unreliable by endurance racing, driving an Evora around the world, increasing the factory warranty, keeping driving an Evora, a 911 and an F-Type until one of them breaks, celebrate high mileage customer cars, start a high mileage league table, reward customers who use their cars. Make something of this 'For The Drivers' thing.

Yup, I love this too. What we need is a direct line from TLF to Lotus Cars... @Bibs? ;)

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Commanding a higher price is impossible without a strong brand. This is how Porsche can stick their badge on a VW SUV and charge 30% more. How this hasn't irreparably tarnished their brand as a sports car maker is another story but they didn't build their brand making SUVs. They built it with fast, durable sports and racing cars.

I don't think Lotus should copy McLaren's business model but I'd rather they took inspiration from it and stayed committed to sports cars, offering something more like a McLaren at a lower price point (£50k-£150k). That said, I see no reason why Lotus shouldn't compete with McLaren further down the track. The Evija if successful will sit above anything McLaren makes currently. McLaren and Alpine seem to be doing well out of taking inspiration from Lotus. Alpine A110 is outselling Cayman currently. I just want Lotus themselves to go forward with some confidence about their values and principles which are as valid and compelling now as they ever were. So much they could and should be doing long before the first new model comes out.

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I wonder if they'll ever put the blinker and wiper stalks so that the blinker stalk is on the right hand side of the steering wheel? :getmecoat: 

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All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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For £2m you can have the stalks where ever the hell you want them!

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9 hours ago, jep said:

If they think they can sell a Lotus badged sports car (or SUV) for Merc/Porsche price-point, I fear they will be in for a wallet-draining decade.

Overall a very clear and adequate post as all the others from @jep here - I can't agree more with the thinking and logic

7 hours ago, The Pits said:

This is how Porsche can stick their badge on a VW SUV and charge 30% more.

Makes no sense whatsoever (as much as countless number of other empty/pathetic statements in this thread by @The Pits). Not that I think either of a Porsche SUV's as a "hand built in", but one would struggle to find much in common in between those and VW. You may want to try those and see for yourself. :thumbsup:

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First flat earthers, then climate change deniers and now VW platform sharing deniers! Unusual thing to take offence at though.

I was going to ask what so bad about using VW group parts but I'd much rather we return to discussing the topic respectfully.

I'd be interested to hear your views about what Lotus should and shouldn't do with their future cars. What future Lotus would make you to trade in your Exige in 18 months time?

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1 hour ago, The Pits said:

what so bad about using VW group parts

This is a more sensible of a statement, although platform sharing and badge engineering are a bit of distant from each other concepts. Hopefully we all understand this. :rolleyes:

1 hour ago, The Pits said:

What future Lotus would make you to trade in your Exige in 18 months time?

This really is a fair and challenging question. I bought an Exige with pretty much a freedom to buy any car up to £100k with really no limitations (only one being able to fit in a small carry on suitcase while driving about 100mi one way). I've been sold on the nature of direct connection to the road (I struggle to drive "fully normal" cars) with decent amount of performance. I'm still very happy with these. Only let down's were multiple unexplainable and unjustifiable quality faults and variable dealers network quality when it comes to service.

I don't think I'm going to change the car in 18 months from now, but I may consider buying one more (new). At the moment the next best most immediate candidate would probably be a baby McLaren in specification to my liking (nothing ridiculous, just the way I'd want it to be), while I'm also keen to see what C8 Corvette (and hopefully soon to be announced Z06) is going to be like; I'd also try to get a feel for R8 V10 and maybe (but less  likely) GT-R or AMG GT. So then for Lotus to really be in the list, it would need to either be a major step up from (but same unique type of) my Sport 350 (manufacturing quality at the level of an average Porsche, 30-50% more power and preserved steering/feeling/weight of a car), or a competitive car with big character (read engine and design) and more GT feel, while also more special driving feel than the alternarives. Both are rather tough things to achieve, admittably.

Edited by vd9

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