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8 hours ago, C8RKH said:

I'm sure I have seen an Elise/Exige with a Ferrari engine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbrUniSbX4c.

But not an Evora. Any pictures / links?

Don't forget the Hennessy Venom its basically an Elise tub with new subframes

1393454469000-Venom-GT-2704-mph-KSC-9.jpg

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Selling 6 cars instead of 5 in China would be a 20% increase. There really is nothing to celebrate at this moment in time beyond Lotus's survival but hopefully it will start to make some kind of sense

Maybe, time will tell. I am starting to think that I am out of kilter with the majority (nothing new there I suppose) but all this talk of electric, luxury, etc and I can't help but feel we are going

Having spoken to a few of the long time Lotus guys still at Hethal i can confirm my LOVE for Lotus is back on the straight and narrow, Jaguars/McLarens are not for me!  I just need to have more p

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IT'LL BE WORTH THE WAIT

What will be worth the wait???

Are we talking Evija, Covid 19 vaccine or first drive post confinement, or an upcoming model here?

Edited by NedaSay
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Don’t wait - the roads are empty - get thrashing the car to the chemist 👍

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Only here once

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With all the idiots about showing their true colours, whether on the weekly shop, the inability to practice social distancing etc I'd be worried about leaving the Lotus anywhere out of site on the road in case someone takes offence at your choice of transport for your essential journey. I've sorn'd mine :(

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Did the Esprit yesterday - but that’s not likely to move anytime soon. The Evora is my daily car and gets used as such. Picking bits up earlier in the week from The suppliers was ace.

Only here once

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Come to think of it... Is Lotus' bad luck is kind of legendary?

Every time that they try to grow, the company is hit by mean adverse events. it happened in the late 70's, to a lesser extent in the early 90's. then it happened in the early 2010 with DB antics and the financial crisis remnants and now that they have a strong backer for the first time since GM and Toyota, the world economy goes to shit again...

 

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12 minutes ago, NedaSay said:

then it happened in the early 2010 with DB antics ...

 

That wasn't bad luck. There was nothing lucky about it...

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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7 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

That wasn't bad luck. There was nothing lucky about it...

the crisis started at the launch of evora really and then getting a loan became very difficult.

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I was referring to DB and his obviously excellent decision making skills and his resistance to wasting huge sums of cash on frivolous things and his grounded approach to growth.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Think there are more pressing things on people’s minds at the moment. I think we are all hoping for a bit of good luck if you believe in such things. Sure this topic will be more relevant in some time in the future, when? that’s anybody’s guess. In the meantime please keep safe.

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Geely interview with Matt Windle, Executive Director of Engineering. 

http://zgh.com/media-center/story/interview-matt-windle/?lang=en

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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His interpretation / understanding of 'For the Drivers' wasn't what I was expecting to read at all, and not in a good way.

It's not about "Putting the customers first", its not about the "purchasing experience" and its not about "deliberately designed controls so they're all easily accessible".  That's not to say this stuff isn't important, it completely is; its just that this criteria is what we expect from every company we purchase a product from; they underpin the end product for sure in a way that ensures people have the confidence to engage with, and purchase from, Lotus cars.

"For the drivers" for me is more about the philosophy behind the product itself, not how you get there or indeed, in it!  The connection with the road, the feel of the controls, the emotion and joy from driving experience.  It maintains the link with Lotus' past (being light weight, being about the corners, less being more etc etc) and takes it forward.

I'm reasonably confident from what I've seen in and around this phrase from them in other content from Lotus recently (in particular Russel Carr) that it IS about that.  But hearing Geely's executive director of engineering not reference any of that does give me cause for concern that this nuance is being overlooked from up high and that potentially, we'll be relying on the hardcore of Lotus' employees in the development and manufacturing teams to make sure that magic still happens!

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I guess you can see why Geeley would be keen to take Lotus upmarket if these "profit per car" figures for Ferrari are to be believed.  Almost £80k profit on each car they sell is a great figure. If Lotus tried the same thing that would the GT410 down a around a £140-150k car given the extra cost they would need to invest in the interior quality and design? It would be interesting to understand McLaren's figures.

Last year, the once-hot automotive market began to show signs of cooling. Sale still topped an astounding 17.1 million vehicles in the U.S., but that was down from 2018. However, 2019 wasn’t all bad for every automaker. Ferrari, for example, sold 10,131 cars, and made a killer profit on each of them, too, according to a new report from Fiat Group World, an unaffiliated Fiat Chrysler Automobiles website.

The website reports that Ferrari sold 10,131 cars with a 23.2 percent operation margin on each of them, which comes out to €86,369 ($94,474 at current exchange rates). That’s a significant amount of money, though not as much as the automaker made in 2018 – €86,801 ($94,947). Fiat Group World says Ferrari achieved its impressive margins through adopting new technologies, adapting to market changes, and marketing its vehicles.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Here's a new article on the forthcoming release.

I guess its nothing too new - confirms that its priced between £55,000 to £100,000; but it suggests that this will be its 'last' combustion engined car. So whether they classify a hybrid as being 'combustion' engined might be significant. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-21/lotus-is-gearing-up-to-make-a-car-you-can-drive-every-day?srnd=markets-vp

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11 hours ago, KAS-118 said:

Here's a new article on the forthcoming release.

I guess its nothing too new - confirms that its priced between £55,000 to £100,000; but it suggests that this will be its 'last' combustion engined car. So whether they classify a hybrid as being 'combustion' engined might be significant. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-21/lotus-is-gearing-up-to-make-a-car-you-can-drive-every-day?srnd=markets-vp

Yeah kind of crazy. I mean I would still call a hybrid a combustion engine car even if its not the sole propulsion method, but maybe they mean strictly combustion. Either way its kind of sad, however if they nail this next car out of the park I will be there, especially if its not a hybrid. It will most likely be one of the last few manual sports cars manufactured, looking at where things are headed.

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I would not lend too much credit to this Bloomberg piece, as the price bracket they are giving is so wide 55 to 100k... that would be an Exige replacement, all the rumours have pointed to an Esprit class car, and the latest leaked pics point to a car bigger than the Evora in size... So doubtful that much car would retail at 55k entry price or not. if they do it, it means that they have gone back to JMG business plan and that plan was idiot proof in my opinion.

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/lotus-will-launch-entry-level-car-daily-use

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a32235575/lotus-entry-level-daily-driver-confirmed/

Then i do think Lotus will jump into EV but, I seem to recall one executive saying the ones coming after the "interim car" would be hybrids, I think all cars will have some level of electrification, even that interim car could have electric supercharger and a 48v battery making it essentially a soft - non plug in - hybrid. The team design team has been on a roll lately,  so I'm confident the car is going to be a looker while the parts bin they have access to is plethoric and easily customizable. The propulsion system is still a bit of an unknown but should be quite potent. At this point they just have to execute the plan well and Sales and support function have to deliver on what they promised to offer. 

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I think the reality is the next car was running behind schedule and over budget anyway. The corona virus not only changes the landscape they will be selling into it's also the ideal opportunity for them to reappraise the plan as they now have the perfect excuse for being so late. The longer they take the less interest there will be in a combustion engine car as such a thing will have a short shelf life and reduced return on the investment. Also the decision to neglect the existing range is looking like an increasingly bad call, that was based on a new car being rushed to market sooner plus general lack of interest among new management. Again though, corona virus will be used to explain some catastrophic sales numbers. A get out of jail card in many ways for the new management who were in for a severe hairdryer treatment if not given a final ultimatum depending on how Evija sales are really going of course. Geely have been very clear about their ambition to be world leaders in 'electrification and autonomous driving'. Whatever the deal was with Lotus the terms will be changed to suit whatever Geely's plans and priorities are now. We are already in a different world, one unrecognizable from 6 months ago. Don't forget they will be facing massive challenges of their own now post this virus. Lotus will have to like it or lump it.

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There seems to be a good supply of Evora GT cars in the US now, I was wondering if anyone over there had any ideas/views on how sales were going? Also, the number of positive videos/reviews for the cars there from owners is outstanding. Lotus really did mess out in not prioritising better the models/needs/desires of our US cousins as I reckon done properly they could have easily shifted a 1000 Evora's a year in that market with help from customer recommendations, blogs, videos and a decent dealer network!  I guess it is easy to look from the outside, without any constraints, and be the expert on where they got it wrong and what could have been.

A 500 bhp Evora, for less than a price of a 911turbo, that would defo sell in my mind in the US, and probably sell 30 odd in the UK.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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US is a tricky one, federalising cars is a deliberately expensive and time consuming process. They are very late to the party with the GT and the road legal Exige is an obvious casualty of the legislation which is an effective form of protectionism. It's also harder to compete with US sports cars once you have jumped through all the hoops with the new Corvette available for peanuts and a brand new Mustang with all kinds of bhp costing loose change. It goes without saying that Lotus would liked to have done more in the US. No idea how the GT is really going but doing everything they could to lower the price as standard was necessary and appears to have worked. Deal is the same, you have to go out of your way to know the GT exists, to find out what it is, what it's good at and have to look past many cheaper, more powerful alternatives to end up buying one. Without GT sales from the US to prop up the production figures Lotus would surely be posting their worst year ever?

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Lack of dealers and top-notch professional marketing must be a major issue for Lotus in the US. I would have thought it impossible to fix those two sores without an increase in volume. As Lotus Cars have failed to increase volume to a level where they have the scale to do the US properly, I cannot see any other way forward than the Geely plan, which is to increase Lotus Cars sales worldwide to previously unseen levels.

Hence my question to put to Geely via Bibs (today): what car do the Lotus management think will attract buyers to the marque who currently do not buy a Lotus? 

I very much doubt the answer will be to make a car similar to the vehicles Lotus have made for the last 60 years. The Evora is a stunning car but did not sell as required. If Lotus Cars is to survive, they have to change the products they supply to the market. If they make cars I do not like, so be it; my hope is that by being profitable for the long term, they will then be able to also produce some more 'traditional' Lotus cars. And even if they don't, at least they will be in existence to supply the parts I need to keep my older Lotus on the road.

Justin

 

 

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I’m not so sure that the Evora GT is selling well in the USA. Have you seen the dozens and dozens of new cars that pop up for sale at dealers on the eBay USA thread on here? In fact it seems to be a quite different sales strategy to the UK. Presumably most new Lotus buyers here want to spec their own car at their preferred dealer on a new-build lead time. Sure they might be tempted by an available demonstrator at a good discount. In the USA it seems to be more a case of customers generally buying from the available dealer specced stock. In which case the US dealers are battling with each other over the same customers and the skill for the dealer is in striking the right balance of colour/spec. versus price.

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Also, I'm not really aware of the taxes that apply to different countries in Europe or worldwide when buying a new sport car but for example in France currently :

Go buy a brand new Exige 350 Sport. Price is about 80 000 to 85 000€. Of course you have to pay for the certificate like every car in order to have a licence plate. Not expensive, it's about 1200€. BUT! Now you have to pay an extra tax of... 20 000€!!! Just because of its CO²/km value. It's 25% of the cost of the car you have to add! Makes it crazy expensive for the entry level of the Exige 100k€ or more (87 or 90k£) 

France is a small market of course for car makers, even if Lotus sells some here I believe. But if other countries do apply crazy taxes like this, it makes it quite impossible for a small car maker to sell cars like those. 

The Elise is quite OK it's about 3500€ tax 'only' 

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