free hit
counters
Future of Lotus - Page 95 - Lotus / Motoring / Cars Chat - The Lotus Forums Jump to content


Recommended Posts

The choice we've been given here is be patient and wait however long it takes or move on. Many of the serial Lotus owners I know have chosen the latter.

Naturally, those frustrated by the lack of activity are going to get more frustrated the longer it continues.

To those that think it's all just fine and dandy I suggest they have a look in the classifieds for what you can buy for around £80k these days. The choice is overwhelming. From new cars from the obvious alternatives to used McLaren 570S or 650S, Lambo Gallardo, Ferrari 599 or how about a low mileage AM V12 Vantage and £20k change. Really. A leggy one is top-end Elise money now. Comparing new and used isn't fair but it's reality and what customers have every right to do. With a list of alternatives like this, with much of the depreciation done, how could you not consider some? If the new Lotus doesn't do at least one thing better and several things differently to all of the alternatives then they really will struggle. The current Lotus cars have some real points of difference which have not demonstrated, explained or promoted to a wider, largely indifferent audience. Alpine outsells Cayman because it offers something different.

It's often been said that it costs over twice as much to get new customers as it does to retain loyal customers. Car companies work really hard for every customer and they do their utmost to keep them. I can't imagine a single one of Lotus's rivals being so indifferent about existing customers and the people that like their current cars. If they think that 5000 new punters will just show up the moment they take the covers off the new Exxxxx I think they are in for a shock. Lotus needs to be working hard right now (ideally starting 12 months ago) to convince all of us that things are going to be great. They don't have to tell us about new product but they can tell us what's being done better, differently, what lessons learned at JLR and Bentley are being applied?

I totally get keeping hush about future products, it's normally done to avoid wrecking sales of existing models. But to do this while distancing themselves from the current range at the same time is really unusual. My best guess is that they don't 'get' the 'old' models or feel any ownership over them. They focus on Evija which is Lotus's future and are looking to break with the past. The old cars and the old owners. That part at least appears to be working.

Anyway, most of you will be glad to know that I'm getting bored of trying to convince people that there are legitimate concerns. I know some stuff that would make your blood run cold and boil at the same time but will be keeping that to myself. Having been on the receiving end of much criticism for being blinkered and sychophantic towards Lotus (and worse!) I take no pleasure in finding myself among the critics and cynics. Let's see where we are in 6 months time and continue to wish the many good people at Lotus every success.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.
  • Replies 2.8k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Selling 6 cars instead of 5 in China would be a 20% increase. There really is nothing to celebrate at this moment in time beyond Lotus's survival but hopefully it will start to make some kind of sense

Maybe, time will tell. I am starting to think that I am out of kilter with the majority (nothing new there I suppose) but all this talk of electric, luxury, etc and I can't help but feel we are going

Having spoken to a few of the long time Lotus guys still at Hethal i can confirm my LOVE for Lotus is back on the straight and narrow, Jaguars/McLarens are not for me!  I just need to have more p

Posted Images

No-one can credibly argue against brand building during this time, given the ambition Geely has for Lotus, the negative perceptions that need to be overcome and when funding is in place. Not anyone here, not Phil Popham.

The task in hand demands it.

I bought an Aston Martin V12 Vantage back in 2012. I didn't buy it new nor from an official AM dealer either. But I was invited to a V12 Vantage day at Works Service in Newport Pagnell. It was arranged to celebrate the car. You could call it a glorified owners 'meet' but they did it with thought and care. We got a tour of Works Service and Aston's original site, a talk about Aston Martin history, a technical presentation on the car, a nice lunch with the car's designers and engineers, a goody bag for our families. A few days later we all received a dated, framed picture of the gathering in the post with a letter of thanks. It didn't cost Aston much to do it but we drove away feeling fortunate to own such a special car and to be small part of a great car company's history. Fortunately for me, I don't like the design direction AM have taken in recent years, especially inside, so remain immune to their temptation for now. Another example of a company that felt they had to break with their past to attract new customers. Doesn't appear to be the answer for them as yet sadly.

I really enjoyed the 70th event at Hethel, that deserves all the credit it can get. Fantastic event that achieved much the same feeling for those that attended. Never felt so proud or fortunate to drive home in a Lotus. But it was initiated and executed by a passionate marketing guy who has since been replaced his 2nd in command who has also been let go and the brilliant events manager who is one of the most loyal, dedicated people you will meet in Hethel. It happened because of these people plus our own Bibs of course who made a typically huge and tireless contribution. I don't believe anyone went anywhere near a Porsche showroom for some time after that.

Really hope Lotus can do something soon to keep the likes of Jimmy @blindside interested in what happens next. The chances of them producing a better driver's car than your GT430 are extremely slim though. The next car will be a looker, no doubt about that, but unless they change the current positioning it will be a lesser catagory of car.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Following on from what Jimmy and Jonny have said, I don’t believe we are that different to many others who purchase brand new cars we start drawing up our short list 6 - 12 months before, we are looking at McLaren sports series and Jaguar F type 575, not sure if the car will replace out 430 or sit alongside

however at the present time we don’t have much on offer from Lotus, there was talk of a road version of GT4 but this possibly wouldn’t be much different to the 430 and with the current CV this has gone quiet 

being a long time Lotus owner purchased our first Esprit from Souter & Rhodes back in 1982 and was a Lotus fanboy before this, my concern is that if I go off piste I may not return and therefore our grandsons may not show the same love for Lotus; and yet with the current radio silence this is becoming a very real possibility 

Darryl & Sue

Proud to drive and own a true British supercar the Evora GT430

Link to post
Share on other sites

Again I don’t enjoy reading that from another great Lotus customer, advocate  and supporter. People like you and Jimmy have been keeping the company going when you could so easily have bought something else, you are a part of the history. Every Lotus sale is a triumph against the odds. Especially when most people consider many of the alternatives to be both better cars and better places to put your money.

Ferrari invite customers to exclusive clinics and preview events to show them their latest cars before the press. Very smart move. Makes owners feel special and valued before offering them the chance to put down a deposit. And other car companies wonder why all their cars sell out so quickly!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hopefully some of your questions will be answered here...

 

  • Like 2

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

lotus_sports_car_-_front_watermarked-1.j

AutoExpress rendering of Project Gamma, they obviously designed that using  the 2010 DB Elise design.

Edited by NedaSay
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Gold FFM

So the general consensus, as I read it, is Lotus has a poorly articulated strategy. Increasingly disengaged customers and dealers. A declining market share. Old models in the showroom 

So with a significant investment (remember Popham said £1 5bn was very conservative) WHAT has the new management actually delivered? What significant outcomes have they delivered? At least Bahar got 5 great looking concepts produced! This just feels like hype and positioning over substance. It's as is the last 10 years never happened.

That video interview has just totally deflated me.

 

  • Like 2

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Gold FFM
50 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

At least Bahar got 5 great looking concepts produced!

You aint alone in that thought - the Esprit was very close to launch as well apparently. Oh well - we can only hope.

  • Like 1

Only here once

Link to post
Share on other sites

You can always put the news on if you need cheering up! 😉

Black humour aside, it's easy to throw stones behind a keyboard and I've always suspected that Lotus probably need to be doing things to upset the few nutters who bought their old cars, in order to appeal to a much larger number of people who aren't that 'into' cars. Clarkson proved how popular a car show could be when you stopped talking about boring technical stuff and started having a laugh and doing knob jokes. Lotus probably wouldn't be going far enough if everyone here was whooping for joy. I'd like to think that the best strategy would find a way to bring the nutters along for the journey somehow but perhaps they believe the sooner they get away from trackdays, spring rates, Cup2s and steering feel the better. Popham was involved with the Evoque, wildly successful of course but no doubt the Defender owners club still haven't gotten over it. Somehow they turned Land Rover, the most earthy, salt of the earth brand (on earth), into a fashion accessory.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Gold FFM

You guys are forgetting these cars are built in Britain. That alone, faults an all, makes them superb things.

  • Like 1

Only here once

Link to post
Share on other sites

MJK absolute hero and much missed. Suggest they use lockdown to clone him and Chapman ASAP!

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Gold FFM
1 hour ago, The Pits said:

Somehow they turned Land Rover, the most earthy, salt of the earth brand (on earth), into a fashion accessory.

Well, Defender's have always been trendy around the county tweed set where I live, and Range Rovers too.  It's a bit like Burberry and Harris Tweed, as the gentrification of the countryside has influenced people's thinking on lifestyle etc. Obviously also helped by footballers and their wives driving the bloody things too.

I'd hate Lotus to be a fashion accessory but then as others have said there are alternative fashion brands to buy. Porsche being one. I will say though that the shift upmarket in terms of following the fashion hasn't really helped Maserati long term has it?

 

Macca 570GT, nice interior and exterior colour combo. Only 850 miles from new. £113k at a Macca dealer, but reckon I could get it for £100 - £105k.  That is what Lotus is going to up against as it moves up the hierarchy...

mclaren-570gt-436580239-6.jpg

mclaren-570gt-436580239-11.jpg

  • Like 1

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure Maserati has gone upmarket recently. Over the years, they have fluctuated from the Thinking Man’s Supercar in the early days (and F1 champions) to today’s diesel engined mid range saloon. Remember the 5000GT that only Heads of State and the super rich could afford? The original Ghibli cost more than a Ferrari Daytona. Then came the Bora and the Khamsin, supercars both, that only the richest cognoscenti could buy. Unfortunately this resulted in them going down-market with the Biturbo era. Things picked up Again with the 3200GT, Quattroporte, 4200GT and Gran Turismo, but finally nose-dived with the advent of the new unloved Ghibli and an SUV.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Gold FFM
1 hour ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Not sure Maserati has gone upmarket recently. 

Sorry, maybe I mean they have tried to go "more popular" to appeal to a wider audience but to little success.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

Link to post
Share on other sites

Another great brand with so much potential Maserati. That name could sell used bog roll. 

But by thunder they'd do better making cars the designers and engineers want to make, cars worthy of the badge. What's been allowed to happen to Lancia is enough to make a grown man weep.

MG today is nothing more than garnish on the bonnet of some shite Chinese SUV copy of some shite Japanese SUV copy of some shite European SUV.

If I was a big MG fan I'd rather they called it a Dungshat or whatever and stopped tarnishing the badge. Survival at all costs can come at a terrible price!

 

download.jpg

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Gold FFM
5 minutes ago, The Pits said:

MG today is nothing more than garnish on the bonnet of some shite Chinese SUV copy of some shite Japanese SUV copy of some shite European SUV.

 

download.jpg

Those things are so cheap you get one free with every Covid19 testing kit multi-pack. They even ripped off the Mercedes diamond grill lol.....

The below was unashamedly ripped straight from MG UK website, the words in bold where the only ones changed (except for headings). Scary or what? The similarities are astounding, let's hope the future products are not so similar!

Lotus is back

Today, Lotus is more than an iconic circular badge; it is once again a motoring force to be reckoned with. Our much-loved British brand has been re-launched with the financial backing of one of the world’s largest car manufacturers, which allows us to stand tall in the global market. 

The current range of Lotus models, that were designed and engineered at our site in Hethel, Norfolk, and our Design Studio in Hethel, Norfolk, include the Elise, Exige, Evora and Evija, which was launched in 2018, is a supercar packed with more fun, practicially and specification than any of its rivals, and at just a fraction of the cost, while the Evora, launched in 2009, is the family-ready compact sports car packed with next-level technology. 

With strong financial backing and a bright future, Lotus is now ready to write the most exciting chapter in what is already a very colourful story, which started with the launch of it's first electric car, Evija, in September 2018.

DESIGN CENTRE

Led by European Advanced Design Director, the UK team is responsible for the interior and exterior design of all Lotus products across the globe. The dedicated xx-strong team works in a new state-of-the-art facility which opened in Hethel in September 2018. It takes designs from 2D rendering through to virtual reality.

  • Confused 1
  • Sad 1

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Gold FFM
4 minutes ago, blindside said:

building towards is more in Bentley's niche & price point. (Perhaps a better benchmark for Popham than Aston because of its profitability at long last, plus the VW ownership synergies with Geely). If so they obviously have a massive challenge on their hands.

I know several Bentley customers, long term ones.  Bentley has a brand following that borders on the fanatical as much as Lotus.  They love and cherish the stories of the old "Bentley Boys" and their daring doings and they love the refined, sporting elegance of what Bentley stands for. It takes a certain mindset to buy a 2.5ton car, with a 6.75ltr twin turbo engine as a "sports" option to a similar RR! 

A lot of these guys are self made (the guy who runs Pimlico plumbers is a repeat fan having had over a dozen from new) and one, a close friend and neighbour had three in his stable (yes, real stable) alongside a RR Wraith, a Lamborghini, 2 classic merc convertibles, a 911 and a Maserati. No Lotus though and he never had one, but his past cars included numerous Astons and a super range of Ferrari's including an F40, 2 x F50, a Maranello 550 and 575, a F355, a F360, and a stunning 512 BB.  Bentley owners tend to really like cars. Great cars. Well made and engineered cars. With a real passion for detail. They love talking cars and the experience they have had with them. Most of them considered the GT as a "cheap watering down of the brand!"

If Lotus is really going to compete with Bentley then bloody hell. I wish them well. But they will need to change everything  - not just the cars, but the dealers showrooms (all of them), the quality of the fittings in the cars, the tech, the marketing, the aftersales, the experience from soup to nuts.  A herculean task in my opinion. Aston is struggling. Ferrari is booming. Mclaren is doing OK. Porsche is booming. HIstory, legacy, years of brand building. That is what is keeping Porsche and Ferrari at the front. And great cars even if the former are not really for me.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

Link to post
Share on other sites

The principal driver for many Porsche and Ferrari sales is the opportunity to make money, or at least lose very little while enjoying a fast, flash car on finance that will impress your mates and make your neighbours envious. People are quick to forget but before the whole 'overs' thing on Porsche GT cars (which was concocted as a way to shift the slow selling 918 Spyder) Porsche GT was neither a bank machine nor particularly cheap way to own the cars Chris Harris said you should buy. Just to back this up, there were very few sales of the now revered 997 GT3RS 4.0 in the UK. Hard to believe now but they couldn't shift more than 29 cars here. Even with a sub £140k list price which seems relatively reasonable now for a car that went on to sell in excess of £600k to the same UK buyers who passed it up when it was new!

Getting in early on the latest Ferrari has long been a money spinner. For some years people have played the game and had deposits on several cars at once. Took delivery, thrashed them for 1000 miles, flogged for a profit and waited for the next one to arrive. It has been great for those more interested in money than cars but has left a terrible legacy for true petrolheads. Remember when anything under 50k miles was low mileage? That badge is now only awarded to sub 10k miles for most expensive modern cars. Sub 3k miles for most Ferraris. Depreciation past 10k miles is severe on most cars now. I put nearly 20k miles on my V6 Cup without a thought. Still low mileage as far as I was concerned, especially with an engine good for what? 250k miles without a rebuild? Probably more. I'm definitely more aware of putting miles on the GT430 which is tragic. Youtubers are talking about 6,000km being the limit. They are having their cars trailered to places like Scotland. It's absolutely stupid and goes completely against reality and science but the genie's out of the bottle now and there's no going back. Highest mileage McLaren 650S for sale on ph? 9,000 miles. 12C on there is probably considered unsellable at 40k miles. Yours for around £60k.

The choice for new car buyers quickly becomes keep it forever and rack up the miles or move it on early. When everything depreciated you got a return on your investment through memories created on great road trips. It will be really interesting to see what the fall out from all of this is but high end cars have been bought in huge numbers over the past 10 years all fuelled by cheap finance. Over 50 Mc720S for sale on PH currently. Nearly 70 Ferrari 488s. Nearly 80 458s. Nearly 200 911GT3 for sale just on one UK website. This is before the economic downturn has really started to bite. Crazy times folks.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Bibs featured and unfeatured this topic

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...