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Having spoken to a few of the long time Lotus guys still at Hethal i can confirm my LOVE for Lotus is back on the straight and narrow, Jaguars/McLarens are not for me!  I just need to have more p

Selling 6 cars instead of 5 in China would be a 20% increase. There really is nothing to celebrate at this moment in time beyond Lotus's survival but hopefully it will start to make some kind of sense

Lotus staff got free hot drinks vending machines back in August, was a very welcome move and much appreciated from the people who work there. Sometimes the little things can make a big difference 👍

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Can't argue with much on the last few posts on this thread - as mentioned staggering variety of used car choice at the £80k - £130k  region.

I think the delays are what concern me the most - great there is all this new investment, but we have the halo car first (Evija) which most mere mortals won't be able to afford, whereas the rest of the range which desperately needs updating won't be done, as we now know, for at least another year, maybe more if the virus continues its effect.  I fear Lotus are being left so far behind.

I very nearly said on my comment on the US LOT thread what someone above mentioned about Bahar, his plan may not have happened by my god was there something to be excited about.

The sportscar market has its own echelons and I always saw Lotus in with Porsche, at the lower end - fine by me, it means used cars fall into my price bracket.  I remember seeing the Evora launch and hoping one day I could get one.  The fact that McLaren are also in that bracket now is a little false, by rights they shouldn't be but low confidence/reliability and over supply looks to be killing used car values.  I follow @JayEmm's channel since his Lotus days and he has done some very interesting videos on McLaren following a recent dual purchase by his friends - worth watching, and quite shocking.  Still, a lottery win would definately see one in my garage.

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@The Pits - I agree with you it is bonkers. However, a 30k miles, well looked after Macca MP4 for say £65k is in my mind a keeper. You could buy it, do 10k a year in it for 10 years, and still not lose as much as buying a brand new Aston Martin DB11 and keeping it for 3 years and 30k miles!   

Now, a Macca 570s, at £85k, sub 5k miles and I would be buying that as a long term keeper and enjoy it, rather than think about the miles and resell!

 

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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1 minute ago, Bibs said:

:lol: That's a lot of trips to and from the garage for warranty work! 

Might not be far from the marque!  (sic)

 

Maybe McLaren today is the Lotus of yesteryear in terms of ownership, certainly at the used prices?  Certainly a lot of Lotus DNA in the current McLaren cars, largely due to the number of people who moved from Norfolk to Suffolk!!!  If I had to drive something other than a Lotus, then a McLaren would be the obvious choice for sure.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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I know a fair number of people who have had them but very few who would have more of them. 

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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McLaren bashing is currently all the rage. JayEmm is just jumping on the band wagon, it’s helped his channel no end by the look of it. After putting up with years of prejudice against Lotus I’m not inclined to join in with it, especially without any first hand experience.

They’ve ruffled a lot of feathers among the supercar establishment. Making the usual names look a bit slow is probably the biggest insult you can dish out. Make no mistake, Ferrari’s turbocharged 488 was a direct response to the 12C wiping the floor with the 458. Lots of fanboys wish to see them fail. Porsche fans tend to mock and sneer at anything built in Britain anyway. Makes it easier to hand over huge cheques to the Germans I guess?

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1 hour ago, Bibs said:

I know a fair number of people who have had them but very few who would have more of them. 

I thought Mclaren had a fairly hard core of loyal repeat buyers. I personally know 2 people who are repeat buyers & that's in N. Ireland with their nearest authorised Macca dealer being in Glasgow. That said, although its a few years old this article is very revealing 😁

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/cars-mclaren-what-do-workers-drive

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43 minutes ago, The Pits said:

McLaren bashing is currently all the rage. JayEmm is just jumping on the band wagon, it’s helped his channel no end by the look of it. After putting up with years of prejudice against Lotus I’m not inclined to join in with it, especially without any first hand experience.

They’ve ruffled a lot of feathers among the supercar establishment. Making the usual names look a bit slow is probably the biggest insult you can dish out. Make no mistake, Ferrari’s turbocharged 488 was a direct response to the 12C wiping the floor with the 458. Lots of fanboys wish to see them fail. Porsche fans tend to mock and sneer at anything built in Britain anyway. Makes it easier to hand over huge cheques to the Germans I guess?

Very fair points. AndrewC on here has a Macca and to my knowledge, no problems, and he is still very happy with it. It certainly looks great!

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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2 hours ago, The Pits said:

12C wiping the floor with the 458

I thought a lot of that was the other way around. The 12C was a technical genius but the 458 was the better drivers car? Very similar to a lot of German cars, the 12C was exceptional at what it did but was no fun doing it. 

I've been around Brands in a Cayman and mid-low 50's were easy but I'd be much happier taking over a minute around the Indy in an S1 Elise. Completely different experience and the Elise was always a lot more fun from a driving perspective. The Cayman may have well been on a TV with an xbox controller in my hand, it was very sterile and I thought that similar to what people said regarding the 12C vs 458.

Quote

So we’re going to ignore the empirically ‘better’ car, and choose to take home the car that delivers a sucker punch to the soul - the Ferrari 458 Italia. Because sometimes winning isn’t just about being faster.

^ From Tom Ford writing for Top Gear in 2011. 

https://www.evo.co.uk/ferrari/458/7405/ferrari-458-beats-mclaren-mp4-12c

& Evo agree, although I'm surprised a Porsche didn't come top even though it wasn't in the test! :lol:

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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1 hour ago, blindside said:

I thought Mclaren had a fairly hard core of loyal repeat buyers.

We all met and talk to different people, I wasn't offering an analysis any more than that I know a dozen friends who have had them, and only 2 who have had more than 1 of them. That's all. Your mileage may vary. 

By comparison, there aren't that many people who only have 1 Lotus once they've had 1. I'm on my 5th now in around 20 years of pretty much always having one in the drive and can't imagine not owning an Lotus of some description at any point. 

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Simply in terms of performance. 458 and 488 claimed performance figures are not that far apart. However the 458s were in the great Ferrari tradition of massaged numbers. 488s are more honest and able to be reproduced outside of Maranello. 12C exposed the 458, real world difference was enormous. Ferrari had to turbocharge the 488 just to keep up. They are proud Italians, being the fastest matters.

Ferrari and McLaren are the bitterest of rivals going back to the 70's. They continue to have a profound effect on each other. McLaren have taken strides to make their cars more emotional, Ferrari have gotten increasingly technical and cranked up performance since McLaren showed up on the scene. I don't think Ferrari consider Porsche to be rivals at all really. But McLaren... whole other story.

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That's no bad thing, the drivers are the winners from both sides! :thumbup:

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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World has gone completely mad. These new top end supercars really do accelerate like superbikes now. Even quicker at high speed. That has never been the case before.

McLaren really didn't hold back with the 720S, pushed it's performance into hypercar territory. It's giving everyone headaches, including McLaren. The £1m P1 can't do a lot more in a straight line or around a track. It takes away something from the megabucks Senna's achievements too. It's absolutely nuts. For reference my ZX12R remains the fastest thing I’ve ever been on down Hangar Straight, hitting an indicated 165mph. My Suzuki GSXR 1000 at the time couldn’t pass 160mph. 720S owners are seeing 170mph down there and those who know Silverstone will tell you it’s not that long a straight. 140mph used to be my benchmark for fast in a car there.

 

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Gone mad in a good way Jonny! Now possible to buy a decent used 720S for under £150k. Even more bargains are likely for cash buyers in 6 months or so when the post corona pain really has kicked into the economy.

 

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I hear you on that one but these cars are distorting notions of fast. Testers are saying the 600LT doesn’t feel ridiculously  quick in comparison and a more useable level. From a lightweight McLaren with near 600bhp! Not that long ago that would have been a life-changing experience so I think it takes something away to have the bar set so high. Much like other cars feel numb after a Lotus, so there’s a danger that a lot of fast cars would feel underwhelming to someone used to a 720S.

My Evora feels properly naughty to me still. Much as I’d love a 720S, I wouldn’t like to lose the appreciation of what is by normal standards a seriously fast car. Nice pre-rationalisation for you there! 😁

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720S just sold on Collecting Cars for £124500 to a bloke called Tex. If that was you @Tex congrats! Epic car, fab spec, killer price! 👍👍👍

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Swiftly back on topic....

Looking amazing and exotic is certainly going to help the next car find some homes. The Cayman is actually quite awkward looking from most angles, to say the least. For a car of undeniable capability it's remarkable how undesireable I find it. Many 'worse' cars appeal a lot more. Boxster Spyder for a start. But not everyone wants to be gawped at, a Cayman will certainly end most journeys without being noticed. There are advantages to that for a daily driver.

Having seen the early design renders for the next car it looks like it belongs in a completely different catagory to the Cayman. There's a reasonable chance that the management might seek to tone it down for a number of reasons. Firstly to distance it further from the Evija and to also send out the right message that this is a daily useable car and make it more obviously Caymany. That seems to be increasingly important to those now steering the ship. There's a lot of baggage they want Lotus to get away from, not least people like me! They won't be keen on anything that reinforces the preconceptions that Lotus only make tiny, austere, track cars.

However, that's if they manage to deliver it as a Cayman level car. Note the £55k-£100k spread recently mentioned is very broad, deliberately so to keep their options open. I think the big decision they're having to take right now is where to position this new car.

This is of course pure speculation entirely for lockdown entertainment purposes but I reckon a Cayman/Alpine level car at the £55+k end, would mean toned down styling, a few compromises made inside and 4 cyl turbo more likely. 

The £100+k baby McLaren/Esprit level car means going all-in on styling, higher-end interior and V6.

Which would you personally prefer and be more likely to buy? £55k basic Cayman competitor or £100+k junior supercar?

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No official renders online to my knowledge. No way anyone’s going to share them if they had them either. Nothing to gain, everything to lose by doing so.

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