worst week of my life

[cbclotus]

I think the firm I work for have dropped a clanger BIG time. I had to remove aspestos sheets from ceilings they have done lots of things wrong, I have informed the HSE who came to the site today, not very happy because they said we were at a low risk of becoming contaminated by ChrisTile fibres. I was also told to f off if I didnt like it and get another job. Now it leaves a doubt in my mind. There was no air monitering carried out until today. The tests show that the fibres were above the legal limit to work in so God knows what I was in on monday,tuesday and wednesday. I think the HSE might want to prosecute them. What do you guys think ? Any legal advice on how i stand ? Mike

[esprit350]

Asbestos should only be removed by licenced operators, area should be sealed and waste disposed of correctly. you will need medical exam and any clothing you were wearing at the time needs to be bagged imediately in case of conatamination, contact the HSE asap. Just hope that the type you were exposed to was a low risk type. hope all gets better for you

[bigsi]

if your boss even tries to sack you due to his neglegence in this matter, he wouldnt have a leg to stand on. the hse have already been and seen the situation, told you that procedures were broken, i mean the list would go on, and if they prosecute him then he really doesnt have a chance in hell of getting off, thats a serious offence now.

you could seek legal advice if need be and as for telling you to f-off that goes to show just how inept this person really is, if he isnt prepared to take his employees saftey and health in the workplace seriously, i for one would be looking at another job anyway.!

[cbclotus]

Thanks Howard ,they did not need a licence ,becase it was a cement bonded chrisotile ceiling boards dateing from 1930 ,how ever that does not make you feel much better ,but thanks for your help ,mike s3

[cbclotus]

Thanks Si had a slight slanging match with the jerk on tuesday ,when he entered the building wearing no mask.he said it was safe ,i asked what qualifations did he have also the same question about health and safty guy at work answer none .bunch of ass holes .i will not let this matter drop ,by the way he kindly told me today that i piss him off ,nice guy lol trouble is i have worked there 17 years may be a bit frighted of change ,thanks for your help .mike

[lrg_machine]

Mike

Have a quick llok at this site, here's an extract from it

The penalties for non-compliance can be extremely strong and claiming ignorance of the regulations is no defence. The penalties for non-compliance with the Control of Asbestos at Work Regulations 2002 can be as follows:

* HSE inspectors can issue prohibition notices which can close areas or entire sites

* Companies can be fined an unlimited amount and individuals can be fined

[mayevora]

if your boss even tries to sack you due to his neglegence in this matter, he wouldnt have a leg to stand on. the hse have already been and seen the situation, told you that procedures were broken, i mean the list would go on, and if they prosecute him then he really doesnt have a chance in hell of getting off, thats a serious offence now.

you could seek legal advice if need be and as for telling you to f-off that goes to show just how inept this person really is, if he isnt prepared to take his employees saftey and health in the workplace seriously, i for one would be looking at another job anyway.!

Mike . I can only echo all of above. Get it all checked out including yourself. Any employer who knowingly puts any employees in this enviroment really is on dangerous ground. I would also consider this a major reason to do a bit of job hunting. Good luck

[cbclotus]

Thanks for your help guys you are a good bunch ,the problem is they do not give a s..t about you .and that is wrong but i am not letting it go ,talk later Mike

[CarlC]

Just wanted to wish you well with all this Mike. Quite a shocking story so far. Any person who has commited 17years to company deserves far better and with that type of commitment I think it wouldn't do you any harm to keep an eye on the job market and perhaps find a company that rewards your level of commitment.

Best of luck.

Edited March 10, 2007 by CarlC

[Paul C]

In 2001 i was working at a certain College in Oxford.

In a large hall, the radiators were hidden in large 12" high oak skirting boards, with cast brass

grating set in the boards to let the heat into the room. All the cabling and sockets were also installed

within this skirting.

As part of the job, the skirting had to come out and underfloor heating put in, so i took all the sockets

off and the chippy then removed the skirting. It was in long sections so he was going to run the scroll

saw through them to put them on the skip (yes, solid oak on the skip - typical everyday university waste).

Anyhow, the inside of these skirtings was lined with an asbestos like product. Now even the EXPERTS need

to send the stuff away for analisis, nobody can ever look at it and say 'yeah, that not asbestos', no way ever.

The site forman unscrewed a section and showed us the back, stamped 'Asbestalux'. Now there was a time

that this stuff was deemed to be Ok, in fact only a few years ago i was working in a certain large Hospital where

the had workers carefully unscrewing Asbestos ceiling tiles, bagging and removing, and then fitting the safer

Asbestalux tiles as replacements - drilling the holes in the ward and sweeping up the dust with a broom.

So, back to the skirting, with it identified as Asbestalux and not Asbestos, the chippy sawed it all up with the

power saw while we all worked alongside - safe in the knowledge it was actully written on as not Asbestos.

Three skipfulls went away before the HSE turned up.

STOP, EVERYONE. We had to all leave the site, we could take nothing out, all of our tools and gear had

to stay where it was, the site was then sealed like a crime scene. The whereabouts of the skip's contents

was then attempted to be traced, but of course it was too late. The site was sealed for a 14 day 'notification

period' and only then could asbestos removal be carried out. We would not get our tools for three weeks.

Asbestalux carries the same risk and is treated the same way as Asbestos. I didn't know, the site foreman

Didn't know, and even today i hear 'No it's ok, it's only asbestalux' on an alarmingly regular basis.

We went back and bust in to get our tools. We had been 'exposed' for two days so five minute would not

make much difference, and i could not go three weeks with no tools. We registered the incident with our

doctors, but as i could not prove any single incident (it can be proved i've been potentially exposed many

times) as cause then compensation for any future illness, i'm told, is unlikely.

There is a high Asbestos related death count now due to the guys working with it, mixing it up like plaster

for pipe lagging, and working in factories making it. Awareness was not there and now these poor guys are

dying of nasty Asbestos related illnesses. The death count will obviously go dramatically down once the

generation that were not protected have gone.

Four weeks after the incident i got a letter asking for the clothes i was wearing on the day/days.

Obviously they had been washed, so my machine was 'contaminated' along with everything else

i own.

The site foreman faced a lengthly enquiry that he avoided with a Heart attack.

[cbclotus]

Thanks Paul .the HSE are now looking in to this .the readings taken on friday were higher than allowed limits to work in .as first posts god knows what they were on day one pulling down bonded cement christolie boards dating from 1930s four of us had to do it my company better not say thier name at the moment are just idiots and i am becomeing more and more angry about the situaition .after told to f..k off and get another job if i did not like it ,nobody likes working with you ,i was going to help you but you can go and f..k yourself ,now i am begining to wonder if this guy likes me ....LOL .when the HSE came on friday he interviewed all of us .he will be back to take statments and hopefully they will liable ,thier where many things they have done wrong ,know i thing my life will be hell cant get much worse ... going to doctors monday to tell him i am streesed and worried about my health for the future .not good thank for all your help ...mike

[molemot]

Mike, I don't think you'll have a problem. I had to dispose of some asbestos roofing panels from an old garage, so I had to look into the situation before I did so...It seems the dodgy asbestos is the blue asbestos, which was widely used for pipe lagging and insulation. It is a furry sort of loose fibres; they float about in the air and can readily be inhaled, leading to all the lung problems we now know about. The stuff was even sold as loose fibres to be mixed with water ( or often spit!) and stuffed into holes in walls to take screws as a different form of Rawlplug...this stuff was known as "Philplug". The asbestos cement sheeting is pretty safe, as there are no inherent loose fibres. The big no-no is sawing it up, which creates fibres, although even these are nowhere near as bad as the blue asbestos. I had lots of conflicting advice, but finally managed to get rid of the sheets at a local authority tip which was licensed for the purpose. I was told from another source that it was necessary to double wrap all the sheets with thick polythene, which I did...the tip, however,was quite happy to accept asbestos cement sheeting in its raw state...as mine were the only wrapped panels in several containers full. Now, if the local authority tip allows that, considering the readiness of the H&S types to jump all over transgressions in such circumstances, I don't think you should have any consequential health problems. However, nobody will ever guarantee this, and thus accept liability if anything does happen. Basically, certifying something as "safe" is impossible, and thus nobody will do it. Sounds like you'd be better off working somewhere else though; the phrase "cavalier attitude" springs to mind, as far as your firm's workers relations go.

[cbclotus]

Thanks for your post.The difference in my case was that this was athree bedroomed house and that the boards had been nailed and the only way to remove them was to to smash them down and this obviously causes airborne fibres.As it was obvious to all of us that was where the problem lay and that although the work had been carried out on the Mon and the property open to the eliments on the Weds the readings came back on the Fri after the intervention of the HSE as being above the legal limits and the house has now to be enviromentaly cleaned,so that was were my concerns arose.cheers mike.

[WayneB]

Well Mike, this is a difficult one .

What you do (or dont do ) depends on how badly you need your present job (or a job in the future).

I agree it is unreasonable for your company to expect you to be exposed to hazardous material (without the proper safety equipment), but any goodwill that existed between you and your boss went out the window when you bought in a third party to monitor the levels of asbestos in the air.

I would think that even If you quit now, your boss will make it known to any future prospective employers that you are a whistleblower, and as such they might not be so quick to be offering you a job.

Hopefully you or someone can convince your boss how dangerous the site was healthwise, and your actions had good intentions and may have saved him , yourself and others from a slow painfull death in the future.

Good Luck Mate.

Edited March 10, 2007 by WayneB

[Tentenths]

Mike, sorry to hear about your troubles. Hope it all gets sorted.

Sounds to me like your employer is in grave danger of exposing himself to a constructive dismissal claim. Hopefully it won't come to this but as a precautionary measure I'd strongly recommend you start putting together a log detailing the sequence of events, what was said by whom etc, whilst it's all still relatively fresh in your mind.

If you need any further assistance PM me (Mrs TT is a senior HR/H&S Manager)

James

Edited March 10, 2007 by Tentenths

[cbclotus]

Thanks everybody for your help ,my obvious concerns are about my health and the other three guys who also carried out the work maybe in future years ,i just can not belive how i was put down when i asked to go into firms health and safety meeting ,all i got were moans from the two guys in charge ,the ironic thing is one never entered the house ,the other one did on tuesday saying no problems what a numpty ... and he is in charge ...LOL with out face mask .four people were chosen myself i think because he does not like me he has made that quite clear .how ever i am on it monday morning i want some thing done about it ............... if i had told him to f..k off i would be down the road thanks again mike

[cbclotus]

In response to your post Wayne,i work for a Housing association and employed as a Bricklayer.We have many chiefs and not so many indians and they are all payed substational amounts of money for standing back and little else.Having been told by three members of management that there are no airborne fibres made when chrysotile is ripped apart beggers belief.The truth of the matter is that my mrs contacted hse to get information on their in confidence line but it was soon apparent that they wished to take it futher as they had concerns that the asbestos regulation act 2006 had been breached as so matters were taken out of my wifes hands.Saying this though i asked many questions in relation to the safety and that of the other three workers,considering one is 17 and has just joined the company and was belittled for doing so and ridiculed,so whistleblower,not where peoples health are at risk.thanks for your concerns though Wayne,Mike

[Paul C]

my mrs contacted hse to get information on their in confidence line but it was soon apparent that they wished to take

it futher as they had concerns that the asbestos regulation act 2006 had been breached as so matters were taken out

of my wifes hands.

Just to clarify, does this mean information requested from the HSE 'in confidence' can

lead to the caller being forced to disclose the full information under the 2006 act?

[Dan]

Mike - best of luck with this, sounds like you're getting some good 1st hand advice here.

Dan.

[t70]

Good luck indeed... Something that might pop up is that the "boss" may try and find another way to get rid of you later... but you can easily dispute that as wrongful dismissal... The other thing that i'd like to point out is that, with your experience.. you should be able to get a better position somewhere else right now.. I have always found that one can advance laterally much faster than vertically (ie... switch companies to get advancement, don't wait to move up the ladder)

[Jonathan]

if your boss even tries to sack you due to his neglegence in this matter, he wouldnt have a leg to stand on. the hse have already been and seen the situation, told you that procedures were broken, i mean the list would go on, and if they prosecute him then he really doesnt have a chance in hell of getting off, thats a serious offence now.

you could seek legal advice if need be and as for telling you to f-off that goes to show just how inept this person really is, if he isnt prepared to take his employees saftey and health in the workplace seriously, i for one would be looking at another job anyway.!

Just seen this - pretty sound advice.

When I was an apprentice we all had a year in the health and safety chair as our full time officer had fallen off a ladder and was on full time sick leave (oh the irony). The tables really turned after the Health and Safety at Work Act 1973, COSHH regulations and all the other regulations I don't know about specifically to do with hazardous substances in this case.

Thing is HSE will say "where the hell is the risk assesment" - everyone in the work place should do them, we do even working with the plod everytime we deploy.

Looks like someone is in for it at your place (I would have thought the boss is for asking you to do dangerous work and not having the working practicies in place), I would do as Si says and try and get some advice on where you stand so you're backed up just incase people start asking questions.

[Bazza 907]

Mike

Sorry to hear the things that have been going on.

For what its worth I think you'd have a strong case for legal action against your employer. You should get it checked out - most insurance companies give free leagl advice helplines - check your home contents or building insurer to see if they offer free (24/7) legal advice. So do some car policies - and these legal queries are not restricted to cars or houses but all legal queries.

Importantly should also keep a log of everything that's happened and been said to you - it could come in very useful.

An employment lawyer would confirm this but as I understand it, a couple of years ago new "whistleblower" legislation came into force that protects employees in precisely the situation that you now find yourself in.

Above all don't let them get you down, you're doing the right thing.

Bazza

[cbclotus]

Thanks Bazza they cant mess with your health i will look into it my mrs is on the case wow she is scary ,i know it sounds a bit cheesy but she is my sole mate and i love her and my daughter dearly ,thanks for your advice speak soon i will know more tomorrow when the mrs talks to the HSE . my nick name for her is WONDERWOMAN .THANKS MIKE

[Jussi]

Hope everything goes well, good luck Mike.

[cbclotus]

Thanks Jussi .mike