Elise S2 total loss value

[RichardC]

A couple of months back my 2001 S2 Elise was written off in an accident :-(. There were no other vehicles involved so I am claiming off my own comprehensive policy. My insurers originally offered £4500 as payout for the market value for the car, but I've managed to negotiate this up to £5250, from which they will not budge. I can't make my mind up if this is a fair valuation or not. The car was high mileage (170000!) and this is the main reason that they are giving for the low offer. However it was in good mechanical and cosmetic condition; it had had an new front clam and crash-structure fitted around a year ago at a cost of £4900 to the insurance company of the driver that reversed into it back then. I'd be grateful for any opinions as to whether I should be accepting £5250 for the car. I haven't seen any roadworthy Elise advertised for sale less than £8000. Thanks for any advice given.

[Bibs]

@Guy Munday may be able to help but £5250 is an insult! I'd be hoping for closer to 5 figures or be asking the insurance company to buy you one for £5250 and see how they get on! 

[CocoPops]

Yep, what he said.

As an example (simply put) what is the cheapest s2 on the market? That would be a starting point for sure. High milage or not, it's not an excuse.

[Gashead1105]

Absolute B/S

[Gashead1105]

This sold listed at 8k

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/lotus/elise-s2/lotus-elise-135-sold-2001/6928018 

And I think Will Blackham sold this in a matter of days:

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/lotus/elise-s2/toyota-lotus-elise-s--facelift-airbag-model--full-lotus-history--canyon-red--bills-for-13-000-spent--sold/6501865 

[Guy Munday]

Hi..

For those that don't know, I act as valuer for a couple of Lotus clubs.

What is required of me, when valuing a car is what is known as a "trade replacement value". ie, what would an insurer need to spend to replace a car, WITHOUT paying a dealer profit, warranty and service costs. The underlying principle of insurance is to put you back into the same position as you were in before the accident and, of course, if the car comes with a warranty and a full service you are in a superior position (known as "betterment").

It's all a little hypothetical as the chance of an identical car being available on the day that the insurer needs to buy one is next to nothing which is why they make a cash payment. If you then choose to buy a similar car but maybe with less miles and with a dealer profit/warranty/service built in to the price, it is inevitable that you are going to have to put some of your cash towards a higher purchase price.

With my dealer hat on, if I were offered a 170000 mile car, I would not be wanting to pay much more than £5250 for it, with a view to selling it for a couple of thousand pounds more (out of which you have to take VAT @ £400, warranty at £400ish,etc). Once you get towards £10k, you should be looking to buy a car with under 100,000 miles on it, for sure.

£5250 is really at the bottom end of values and not a great way to treat a customer but I would have thought much more than £6k would be a bonus, simply because of the mileage.

It's always worth agreeing a value when buying insurance. It really doesn't guarantee a payout but makes your negotiating position so much stronger.

[Guy Munday]

Hey Buddsy..

It's a hot topic at present.

I'm fighting the corner of a couple of owners who have been seriously short changed by their insurer. An agreed value significantly reduces the insurers negotiating power unless in can be proven that there had been serious degradation to the car between the valuation date and the write-off date. This is why you should always re-visit the agreed value every year even if the insurer only requests it every three years or so. An agreed value on an Esprit from three years ago would leave you seriously out of pocket today.

[ChrisJ]

@Buddsy - do it now. Mine is up at £35k now.

[theelanman]

I have all mine on agreed value..............only way to be sure that if anything did happen then youd get what you consider to be the right price.....

don't forget to up it when you renew........they will let you know if they don't agree........(the insurer that is)

[CocoPops]

1 hour ago, Guy Munday said:

Hi..

For those that don't know, I act as valuer for a couple of Lotus clubs.

What is required of me, when valuing a car is what is known as a "trade replacement value". ie, what would an insurer need to spend to replace a car, WITHOUT paying a dealer profit, warranty and service costs. The underlying principle of insurance is to put you back into the same position as you were in before the accident and, of course, if the car comes with a warranty and a full service you are in a superior position (known as "betterment").

It's all a little hypothetical as the chance of an identical car being available on the day that the insurer needs to buy one is next to nothing which is why they make a cash payment. If you then choose to buy a similar car but maybe with less miles and with a dealer profit/warranty/service built in to the price, it is inevitable that you are going to have to put some of your cash towards a higher purchase price.

With my dealer hat on, if I were offered a 170000 mile car, I would not be wanting to pay much more than £5250 for it, with a view to selling it for a couple of thousand pounds more (out of which you have to take VAT @ £400, warranty at £400ish,etc). Once you get towards £10k, you should be looking to buy a car with under 100,000 miles on it, for sure.

£5250 is really at the bottom end of values and not a great way to treat a customer but I would have thought much more than £6k would be a bonus, simply because of the mileage.

It's always worth agreeing a value when buying insurance. It really doesn't guarantee a payout but makes your negotiating position so much stronger.

But surely if you would sell it at £7250, that's what he should get?

ie he should be in a position to buy a replacement, not get trade in value?

[pete]

Trouble is insurance companies think they are trade

[Guy Munday]

All explained above...

[Barrykearley]

10 hours ago, RichardC said:

A couple of months back my 2001 S2 Elise was written off in an accident :-(. There were no other vehicles involved so I am claiming off my own comprehensive policy. My insurers originally offered £4500 as payout for the market value for the car, but I've managed to negotiate this up to £5250, from which they will not budge. I can't make my mind up if this is a fair valuation or not. The car was high mileage (170000!) and this is the main reason that they are giving for the low offer. However it was in good mechanical and cosmetic condition; it had had an new front clam and crash-structure fitted around a year ago at a cost of £4900 to the insurance company of the driver that reversed into it back then. I'd be grateful for any opinions as to whether I should be accepting £5250 for the car. I haven't seen any roadworthy Elise advertised for sale less than £8000. Thanks for any advice given.

Simply ask them to provide a replacement vehicle - dig in and refuse that offer.

provide evidence of auto trader adverts and request a real and proper value. I had exactly this with a van a few years ago. I refused the pay out a few times and lost my rag with them - told them I want a replacement vehicle. They stumped up based on autotrader advert values

[pete]

When did you last see an elise for sale with that mileage

[Barrykearley]

Mores the point - when did an Elise last sell at that value.......

[pete]

there hasn`t been one but i have never seen one for sale with100.000 plus miles

[Barrykearley]

I'm sure there was one on eBay last year with 120-130k on it - blue in colour if I recall.

i don't think I'd be at all concerned about high mileage on any older lotus - especially if it's used and looked after

[pete]

unfortunately thats not the way the trade look at it

[Chillidoggy]

Hold on a minute..................so an 'Agreed Value' is not an agreed value?

Sounds like we're being conned, unless I've missed something in the small print.

[pete]

Not sure if it varies from company to company.When i wrote my megane off last year i was told to get the 3 lowest PRIVATELY advertised cars on auto trader and take a mean price and that was what they paid out after refusing the first offer,was insured with AIB and Darren had advised me when i first insured the car that it was better to pay a bit more on the premium than other quotes as cheaper often meant poorer service.You never know how good your insurance is until you make a claim

[RichardC]

Thanks everyone for the coments and advice.

The car wasn't on an "agreed value" policy. I said that I thought it was worth £8000 when I insured it but it seems that insurance companies just ignore this piece if information if it is more than what they perceive to be "market value". (I wonder what they do if the customer gives a lower valuation than the market value? Do they pay out the lower amount?)

I'm not sure what the trade-in value of the car has got to do with it. I expect to be paid enough money to go out and buy a similar vehicle somewhere in the UK. Trade or private sale. No warranty included. And if I had to buy from a dealer then I'm afraid that I would have to pay the VAT and would expect that to be included in my settlement. 

I have pointed out to my insurers that I have seen no Elises (S1 or S2) advertised for sale for anything below £8000. Their response is that the cars are usually sold for a discount to the advertised price and that the trade-guides that they use to value the car reflect this. Can I really be expected to negotiate a >34% discount?

Then there is the 170000 milage. This is unusually high for an Elise, so finding a car for sale with a similar milage is highly unlikely. You could argue that using the milage is almost irrelevant in estimating the value of a 16 year old car. What counts is condition. Once a car gets to that age and milage, it would have had to have many mechanical parts replaced to keep it on the road. My car was a bit of a "Trigger's broom" in that respect. I don't believe that anyone from my insurance company has actually inspected the car; the decision to write-off and the valuation has been done using photographs and milage-adjusted trade-guide value tables.

The question is should I take my claim any further? My insurers won't budge above £5250 and suggest that if I am unhappy with that then I must take my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. I'm not sure what my chances of success would be with this or whether it would be worth the hassle. Has anyone got any experience of doing this?

 

 

Lessons from the story: The cheapest insurance quote isn't necessarily the best one to take out. Never accept their initial offer. Until the industry starts playing fair with valuations, take out an agreed-value policy. If you have to battle with your insurer and they come up with 1066 reasons why they aren't going to pay what you are owed, then never use that company again.

[CocoPops]

Ask them to find you a car surely? They won't be able to.

[Bibs]

That's because the only cars available for sale will be much lower mileage, in which case they're saying the OP has to contribute towards a better car. That said, I still think their offer is too low. 

[Barrykearley]

Can you buy back the salvage ??

[pete]

Have to agree that cheapest not the best but you don't know that until you claim or take the advise of a broker.which company is it.

Went to the ombudsman once but was over pet insurance. They were very good and we won the day.