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NW76

Gearbox Oil Cooler

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Here is the Gearbox Oil Cooler thread:

I recently got the KT Gearbox Oil Cooler installed in my EX460. The Installation included a PT-100 temp sensor that is conected to my AIM data recording system.

First experience on the road: it takes prolonged hard driving to bring the gearbox oil temp up in to the 90C ranges. The cooler kicks in at 70C (have to verfiy if it is really 70C not higher) and seems to prevent the Oil Temp from ever getting significantly above 90C.

On track you quickly reach 100C but the cooler manages to hold the temp at around 120C even at prolonged sessions (30-40 min hard driving in Spa). The issues I had before where it becomes more and more difficult to shift from 2 to 3 or vica versa or even from 4 to 5 and vica versa has not appeared again. Overall the gearbox feel on track is much closer to how it always felt on road (very solid and easy to shift). Whereas before after 15 mins on track I could feel the stress I am putting on the box.

@Jack and @550superfast I think you both have a gearbox cooler installed as well: what is your experience so far?

@Jack I have looked my data download and realized that it cant find the logged values for Oil_T, Oil_P and GearBoxOil_T ... I have seend the live data on the Display while driving... something must be wrong in my AIM settings, as they do not seem to be logged. I have tons of other data... but exactly those are missing.

I will check with AIM re my settings... if you have any tips on how to check and select whats beeing recorded, please let me know. I have not found a field in the configuration where you could turn recording on or off, but I assume thats whats wrong...

Cheers

Norbert  

 

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Interesting results! In the Evora I observed the gearbox behaviour you're describing even on the road, either on high speed autobahn passages, or in the Alps when pushing the car. Particularly high autobahn speeds (>250 kph) seem to stress both the engine and gearbox even more than trackdays.

I will have to see how it is in the Exige by comparison, but the oil cooler is something I already have on my potential wish list.

I really have to start working on my OBD Superdongle (with additional analog/discrete inputs and high-speed GPS).


If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

Captain,  Lotus Airways. We fly lower! 

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@NW76-Norbert, data logging is always on.  If you've got the sensors hooked up the MXS, it will data log all the info.  When opening up Race Studio 3, you want to go to "View" (upper right) and hit "Measures" and you should see all the channels that are being data logged, both off the ECU and your extra installed sensors.  I believe for you car, you had to have sensors installed to get oil temp and oil pressure, did Komotec do that?

Also, typically when looking at your lap times and Theoretical Best lap, if you hit the "space" bar on your computer, the "Measures" list will pop up on the right side.

My transmission temps (X-Trac) run between 180 and 230 degrees F when the car is fully warmed up after running several laps on track.  The cooler from Lotus is an air to air cooler not activated by a specific temp (no fan on cooler).   X-Trac recommends a min. temp of 180F (~82C) before pushing hard.  If it's a really cold day, I need to cover a portion of the trans oil cooler to reach the minimum recommended temperature .

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Jack
2008 2-Eleven
2015 Exige V6 CupR
Track videos ... http://www.youtube.com/jackcup
2010 Lotus Challenge Series ULTRA Class champion
2012 Lotus CUP USA OPEN Class champion

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Hi Jack,

exactly - I had those sensors installed and they work as I can see the live data ... what I am not getting is why the values are not recorded. Have to check with KT whats going on. I cant find any issue in the settings of the system ...

Cheers

Norbert

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Hi Norbert. Good to know everything you said about temperatures.

Where exactly have you located the oil cooler? (In which engine bay place) May you post a picture please?

Did Komotec give you the temp sensor with the kit?

Regards 

Edited by Dani

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Dani, dont exactly know - but will find out and post a picture next time when I have a look at it. The kit has a analog temp sensor that switches the cooler on/off but I had to install a digital sensor in order to get exact data that my AIM could read. That was part of my AIM kit and not the gearbox cooler.

Cheers

Norbert

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On 5 April 2017 at 18:33, Jack said:

@NW76-Norbert, data logging is always on.  If you've got the sensors hooked up the MXS, it will data log all the info.  When opening up Race Studio 3, you want to go to "View" (upper right) and hit "Measures" and you should see all the channels that are being data logged, both off the ECU and your extra installed sensors.  I believe for you car, you had to have sensors installed to get oil temp and oil pressure, did Komotec do that?

Also, typically when looking at your lap times and Theoretical Best lap, if you hit the "space" bar on your computer, the "Measures" list will pop up on the right side.

My transmission temps (X-Trac) run between 180 and 230 degrees F when the car is fully warmed up after running several laps on track.  The cooler from Lotus is an air to air cooler not activated by a specific temp (no fan on cooler).   X-Trac recommends a min. temp of 180F (~82C) before pushing hard.  If it's a really cold day, I need to cover a portion of the trans oil cooler to reach the minimum recommended temperature .

Have Xtrac actually given you that info about running temps before giving it the beans or was that the advice from Lotus? Only ask because I've discussed this very point with my son who was instrumental in designing this gearbox when working at Xtrac. He tells me it is essentially the same gearbox as used in the BTCC and they have no requirement to pre heat. The 'box isn't built with any crush or pre load in the bearings so aside from getting the oil to a reasonable running temperature for flow through the pump, there is no specific requirement to pre heat. He says that if the oil is anything above 30 deg Celsius, you are good to go, so don't need to worry about blanking off part of the transmission cooler on cold days.

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3 hours ago, Spinney said:

Have Xtrac actually given you that info about running temps before giving it the beans or was that the advice from Lotus? Only ask because I've discussed this very point with my son who was instrumental in designing this gearbox when working at Xtrac. He tells me it is essentially the same gearbox as used in the BTCC and they have no requirement to pre heat. The 'box isn't built with any crush or pre load in the bearings so aside from getting the oil to a reasonable running temperature for flow through the pump, there is no specific requirement to pre heat. He says that if the oil is anything above 30 deg Celsius, you are good to go, so don't need to worry about blanking off part of the transmission cooler on cold days.

Brent,

Thank you -- good to know.

That temp info was, in fact, from Lotus..... got some other erroneous info from the Lotus Supplemental Manual on the proper method of refilling the Xtrac as well. :)

Just checked my Xtrac manual for the 426 and found that optimal sump temp is 90*-110* C  (194-230*F) but found no pre-heat requirement.


Jack
2008 2-Eleven
2015 Exige V6 CupR
Track videos ... http://www.youtube.com/jackcup
2010 Lotus Challenge Series ULTRA Class champion
2012 Lotus CUP USA OPEN Class champion

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18 hours ago, Dani said:

Did you have ocassion to take a picture yet? :blush:

Dani: no chance yet - will take some time until I can get a picture of it ... maybe next service.

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6 hours ago, Jack said:

Brent,

Thank you -- good to know.

That temp info was, in fact, from Lotus..... got some other erroneous info from the Lotus Supplemental Manual on the proper method of refilling the Xtrac as well. :)

Just checked my Xtrac manual for the 426 and found that optimal sump temp is 90*-110* C  (194-230*F) but found no pre-heat requirement.

No problem. Lotus giving duff info??? Whatever next? ?

My son told me that when designing this gearbox he always had in mind the need for it to be rugged and able to accept some punishment from the BTCC drivers, who weren't always known for their mechanical sympathy, without giving any problems.?

Having said that, just as you wouldn't start an engine from stone cold and immediately thrash it, he says a degree of gentle use to allow the oil to really flow freely is always a good thing. 

I always hoped he'd be able to sneak one of these gearboxes out the back door for his old dad, but he's far too honest. Takes after his mother in that respect! ?

Edited by Spinney
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Do you know the thread of the oil temperature sensor. I want to buy one and there are at least 2 options: M12 x 1.5mm pitch or 1/8" NPT (which is a tapered American standard)

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Hi Dani, sorry - no clue. Its a PT100 from AIM. But you can always call KomoTec and ask them if they are willing to sell you one. Cheers Norbert

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42 minutes ago, NW76 said:

Hi Dani, sorry - no clue. Its a PT100 from AIM. But you can always call KomoTec and ask them if they are willing to sell you one. Cheers Norbert

Ok, thanks anyway,  I wrote Komotec, to see what they say

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On 2017-4-25 at 18:25, Dani said:

Ok, thanks anyway,  I wrote Komotec, to see what they say

Strange answer from Komotec: "On which place would you be mount the sensor? In our opinion is no space for this."

:wacko:

 

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Hmm ... are you looking for a sensor to run the cooler or to measure oil temp?

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I'll take a stab at what KT might mean -- to install a sensor, you will have to modify your car to provide an appropriate installation port for a temp sensor.  IOW, the stock car has no location for installation of an after-market oil temp sensor.  Adding a sandwich adapter (which has 2 ports), or modifying your stock oil pan by installing a bung or getting a Moroso oil pan which comes with "bungs" will allow the installation of the sensor.

Of course, you will also need a gauge or some device to display the oil temp info.  Photo below of Greddy oil sandwich plate, Moroso oil sump and my modified stock pan:

 

greddy oil adapter-1.jpg

Moroso oil pan.jpg

bung 2 copy.jpg

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Jack
2008 2-Eleven
2015 Exige V6 CupR
Track videos ... http://www.youtube.com/jackcup
2010 Lotus Challenge Series ULTRA Class champion
2012 Lotus CUP USA OPEN Class champion

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Jack I think they are wanting one that works for the gearbox oil and not the engine oil. 

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Yes, I got the gearbox oil cooler and now I want to locate a oil temp sensor in the gearbox

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@Dani I dont know where Mine exactly is ... it was installiert together with the KT cooler.

Why dont you ask KT specifically for my install? 

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On 2017-4-29 at 21:42, NW76 said:

@Dani I dont know where Mine exactly is ... it was installiert together with the KT cooler.

Why dont you ask KT specifically for my install? 

I am having a surrealist conversation via mail with komotec: even after asking them about your install, same answer: "On which place would you be mount the sensor? In our opinion is no space for this."

Norbert, may you give me your mail so I can send to you my mails with Komotec? I have the sensation that they are not understanding my question (very simple by the way) or they just do not want to answer me for an strange reason.  May be you can help me... 

 

Edited by Dani

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Yes - happy to help. I will PM you my EMail.

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