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General Election - 8 June 2017


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The simple reason they never achieved it before is that New Labour lacked the political will to make the necessary public investment.

The "Private Funding Initiatives" started by John Major and continued by Blair and Brown got things built but placed public authorities in hock to prIvate lenders. To say that is not a socialist policy is an understatement. They were New Labour. Other things New Labour promised to do was to renationalise the railways and oppose the privatisations of prisons. Once in power they failed to do the former and contiued the latter.

The proof of the pudding is to be found in the light touch regulation of the banks. Certain experts foresaw the 2008 Crash but were ignored by New Labour who saw the City as a Cash Cow for their schemes. Once the banks collapsed Brown did a good job in preventing a meltdown (are you with me on that ? LOL) but did astoundingly little to fight the views of the Tories that Labour had created the crisis and not American creditors. 

To summarise, Corbyn is Labour, not New Labour. There is a heck of a difference.

He means business, that`s why he gets a bucket of vomit poured over him every single day from the powerful who do not want their wealth and power  touched.

Meanwhile "I won`t call an election before 2020. I won`t call an election before 2020. No, I won`t call an election before 2020. As I said  I won`t call an election before 2020.

Oh I know I WILL call an election now and I won`t face questions from the public or other party leaders  " May is seen as more trustworthy.

Wow  :lol:

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"All pigs are equal, just some pigs are more equal than others" Dan, your utopian view of the world is I fear fundamentally flawed. The human race just doesn't work like that, however much you mi

The bloke who lived across the road from me used to work for a drug company that supplied the NHS. He confirmed what you're saying about prices, and made a very good living on the back of it. Jus

Only problem I have with this post is the sly attack on the Queen. Now, let's see how this goes shall we as I really do get pissed off when people knowingly miss-represent facts. Anyone with half a br

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New Labour, Old Labour, Tory or Liberal, no political party CAN sort out ALL of the problems that the UK faces with the current system in place.

One thing I do agree with Corbyn on (help me please!) is that the current system doesn't work and hasn't worked for decades. Corbyn is not the man for the job

Anyone remember that last time the Country ran a surplus? We have a massive annual deficit and no conceivable way of resolving it without massive cuts and pain in all sectors.

With only 5 years to get re-elected NO party will ever tackle the big issues. However much good the Tories did in reforming the 'sick man of Europe' after the catastrophe of Labour (and Heath) in the 70s, it was inevitable that things would go to far and the 'Nasty party' would effectively be hated by all for virtually a generation.

Economics and Politics in the Western World generally depends on growth to sustain things (and seemingly reduce debt as a % of GDP. This has left us with a massive (not really a big enough analogy) National Debt that in any other walk of life would see the UK bankrupt.

Apart from Banks going tits up (shame!!) what would be the consequence of cancelling ALL World debt, not just 3rd World debt? Interesting idea in principle to set us back to zero - but how long would it be before we were back to where we are now? In essence, this just proves that the current system is fatally flawed and until someone comes up with a solution that is acceptable and works nothing will change.

After the 2008 crash, we have seen that no one is held responsible for what happens, true capitalism isn't practiced as not enough companies (or Nations) were left to sink or swim. Greece are an extreme case - but in essence it is the same story as in the UK - not enough tax revenue to deliver Pensions, Education, Policing, Welfare, NHS etc etc.

Arguing the toss over the fringes solves nothing - I'm actually hoping that Corbyn does come up with something radical and get elected - that would solve immigration and over population in one fell swoop. The UK viewed from abroad would be your only hope!

Is the price for that bit in Yen or £?

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Yes what a joy to hear from that war mongering criminal.

wish he would just crawl off to a corner and die

Only here once

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On 4/21/2017 at 17:55, oilmagnet477 said:

After the 2008 crash, we have seen that no one is held responsible for what happens, true capitalism isn't practiced as not enough companies (or Nations) were left to sink or swim. Greece are an extreme case - but in essence it is the same story as in the UK - not enough tax revenue to deliver Pensions, Education, Policing, Welfare, NHS etc etc.

Arguing the toss over the fringes solves nothing - I'm actually hoping that Corbyn does come up with something radical and get elected - that would solve immigration and over population in one fell swoop. The UK viewed from abroad would be your only hope!

I don't see it as a case of not enough tax revenue to deliver Pensions, Education, Welfare, NHS, etc etc.  It's about making choices and the issue for me is that no politician, of any colour (yellow, red, blue, etc), is really going to tackle the hard situations and take hard and difficult decisions.  They are too scared of the ramifications of being "unpopular" and then losing their seat next time around. This is the real issue with short fixed term positions which essentially is what a politicians job is. Corbyn, for all his principles, has shown us he suffers from, and behaves in the same way to, these issues.  Just look at how he has desperately, resolutely and harshly battled to hold on to the power he now has?  Him and his sidekick John MacDonald (the real power and ideas man behind Corbyn) are not behaving any differently to any other politician here. Nothing radical to see here, just good old, plain old, protection of my position politics. Just because he comes across as a nice old guy to have a pint with, does not mean he is any different to any other politician. He isn't. And if he was, the radical thing to do would be to recognise the damage he is doing the Labour party's ability to win a general election and he would stand down for the greater good.  But he hasn't. And he isn't going to do that. So again, nothing radical here or different.

To get back to the tax income, choices and NHS, Education, etc.  Within the UK we have a reasonable tax regime and a high degree of compliance with tax to pay and be collected (we can laugh about Costa, Starbucks, Amazon, Google but in reality and compared to many other EU countries, let alone outside of the EU, we collect a very high proportion of tax owed/due). This gives us a considerable net income to the Government's coffers. A very substantial amount.  But it is not, as some people like to think, a bottomless pit of money. This is where the hard choices come in. Many of these choices would be unpopular and as such they do not get done as (1) politicians do not talk openly with the electorate to educate and inform on the choices in an impartial way (2) they fear the backlash and therefore for their continuing employment as an MP (3) etc... 

Anything that is done to clamp down on benefits miss-use, fraud, etc, if jumped on by Corbyn and the left as an attack on the disadvantaged. Something radical from Corbyn would be to send out a message that benefits cheating IS STEALING MONEY AND RESOURCES from the disadvantaged members of our society. It  should be socially unacceptable and repugnant and as well as the full force of the law, popular peer pressure should be used to prevent the abuse.  It worked for drink driving, it can work for other things, but it needs a sustained, cross party, long term initiative. Something we won't get as the battle lines are drawn - on the left we have benefits for anyone who wants them (the nice party) and on the right we have benefits for only those that can prove they need them (the nasty party).  The truth is somewhere in the middle, as is the need.

We can tackle the issues around Education, the NHS, etc. in the same way. The left wants it all free for anyone, the right wants it free for those who need it as a service of last resort - two extreme points of view again, but the reality of the need will be in the middle.

To me the issue is the personalities.  One of the best things about our system, in my view, is that we vote for a party, not an individual. The party wins the election and the party leader on the day becomes the Prime Minister.  This is different to say the US, France etc, where they vote for a President. A personality. An individual as a leader.  To me, our system is better as it should (but does not unfortunately) transcend the ego of the individual and the party should be able to handle better long term, hard choices and decisions, than an individual who is trying to cling on to individual power.

All through Indyref1 here in Scotland, we had the SNP and Sturgeon talking about the need for a radical shift in politics. For the game to be changed. For a "nicer" and "fairer" politics. Just like Corbyn, they promised radical change. Well, you only have to look at the TV reports with Sturgeon, watch the political chat shows, and read the rhetoric in the press from her, to realise that it was all a sham. A lie. A front, to win the popular support. The reality is that Scotland has never been so divided, so bitter, and so angry. When you do the same with John MacDonald and Corbyn, you realise that just like with Sturgeon and the SNP, it is all a front to win popular support. Deep down they will ruthlessly and callously cling on to power and do whatever is necessary to further their own goals, as opposed to what is best for the nation(s).  And there in is the rub @oilmagnet477. Corbyn is a career politician just like the majority of everyone in power in the UK. Radical change is not in their best interests. But deceiving the population into thinking it has a choice. It has the freedom to choose. Now that is in their best interest.

I don;t have the answer. But if we really do want to see truly radical change, then I strongly suggest it starts with finding people who have the backbone and spine to talk truthfully about the challenges we face. To put on the table the facts behind the hard decisions that are going to have to be made. And to put aside their own self interests to push for and ensure the right decisions are made to safeguard all of our futures. And therein lies the problem, history tells us that there are a pitiful few such leaders who ever make it to the top, to truly drive the radical change. I for one am sure Corbyn is not one of those. He does not have the backbone or the spine, in my very humble opinion.

 

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Yup. A nice summary @ian29gte. I think the turkeys are the one's who believe the hype and bullshit around Corbyn. He is at his core no different to any other politician. He might wear his principles more on his sleeve - but then look at his track record - a life time of defying the Labour party leadership to follow his principles - yet his tenure as leader of the Labour party has been full of his ruthless action against those who try to do the same with their principles and beliefs. He is no different in reality to any other political leader. It's all about him.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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I was referring more to your comments about politicians introducing unpopular policies: The general public doesn't like to take the medicine which may give short-term pain, and thus that party would be voted out of government in favour of the party that offers the land of milk, honey, and four additional Bank Holidays.

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Margate Exotics.

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Which is why their manifestos and reality are two totally different things 

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hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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The public needs to be spoken to with openness and honesty. it needs to understand why we need to take the medicine. What the medicine will do to us, the side effects. but how it will make us better.

Take pensions - we know we cannot afford a public pension for all in the future - so what do we do - we increasingly pinch, steal, and borrow from the money people want to put into their private pensions (so they are not a burden on the state when they get older and retire). We basically raid these pots (Labour loved doing this) to pay for benefits now, knowing that in the future it will cost us much more to provide the care for elderly people who are on a much reduced pension.

It's complete and utter bonkers. The more people with private medical care and private pensions, the better it is for the country as a whole. Though private medical care should be just that, and not a back door way to use the NHS facilities ahead of the queue. So we tax people with private medical care more, when in fact they are already helping by taking load off the NHS. Again, utter bonkers.

I'm have duck for this xmas, as I feel as though no matter who wins, I'll still be ducked!

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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26 minutes ago, ian29gte said:

You should duck over to the introductions section to say Hi.

And change my user name to Mallard whilst I am quack it.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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All water of a ducks back in the end. This is just going "down" hill fast so I'm off for an eiderdown....

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Roll on Corbyns revolution. I'm gonna pay the mortgage off and pack up work. It's a life on the jam roll for me 

Only here once

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Silly boy. They've not done actual proper costed policies for years! That's for the grown ups.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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On 4/21/2017 at 17:03, basalte said:

 

Meanwhile "I won`t call an election before 2020. I won`t call an election before 2020. No, I won`t call an election before 2020. As I said  I won`t call an election before 2020.

Oh I know I WILL call an election now and I won`t face questions from the public or other party leaders  " May is seen as more trustworthy.

Wow  :lol:

Why does May remind me of Frances Underwood in House of Cards?  Every time I see May I am waiting for her to turn to the side and say something sinister. She strikes me as being very good at politics time will tell if that means she is a competent and good politician for the country.

 

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Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear

Not once, but twice in the same morning

 

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^ that woman is the most horrible racist example of a woman I have ever seen. She is not only vile but clearly incompetent as well

Only here once

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