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More gearbox issues ? 2nd gear questions


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Hi! First time posting here. I have used this sight for answers for a long time, but I need to pick a few brains on a few specific question. So the car is a 1998 v8. Im down in NC driving the dragon. Not pushing it, but having fun. I go to shift into 2nd mid drive and CRUNCH. No prior signs or concerns. From what I have read 1st and 2nd share the same synchro? When the car is idoling at a stop, or very low speeds, no issue getting into 2nd. However if I'm doing 5-10 or more coasting in neutral then try to select 2nd I get a small crunch. At the same speed I can select 1st from neutral no issues. Rev matching does not help. To me it sounds more like a damaged 2nd gear more than a synchro. What are your guys thoughts? 

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Cannot recall whether 1st even has a synchro, it's not unusual (esp not modern cars) to not have one.

I've had 2nd gear synchro fail but it was progressive in that it got worse over time, becoming more difficult to engage 2nd at pace, having to give an extra second or more between changes compared to when it started to go. If you have noise when in 2nd (rather than just when selecting it) then I'd be sure it's the gear, but either way it's gearbox out and send it off/ repair it asap as either will mean metal floating about that could cause other problems (accepting bit of a tooth is worse than fine particles of brass).

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3 hours ago, 1998v8 said:

Hi! First time posting here. I have used this sight for answers for a long time, but I need to pick a few brains on a few specific question. So the car is a 1998 v8. Im down in NC driving the dragon. Not pushing it, but having fun. I go to shift into 2nd mid drive and CRUNCH. No prior signs or concerns. From what I have read 1st and 2nd share the same synchro? When the car is idoling at a stop, or very low speeds, no issue getting into 2nd. However if I'm doing 5-10 or more coasting in neutral then try to select 2nd I get a small crunch. At the same speed I can select 1st from neutral no issues. Rev matching does not help. To me it sounds more like a damaged 2nd gear more than a synchro. What are your guys thoughts? 

Have you tried double declutch ? If that stops it then it's almost certainly box out.

check the gearbox linkage and that all the nuts and bolts are nice and tight on the gearbox end. 

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Welcome to TLF Mitch. :welcome:

You should duck over to the Introductions area and say hi in there as well. :) 

 

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

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Does seem that your 2nd syncro is failing. What oil are you using? Try Redline MT90 transaxle gear oil which might improve things. Also check the cable and rod adjustments.

DanR

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Thanks for the quick responses! I changed to MT90 about 600 miles ago. Right after I posted the original thread I messed with the linkage. Drove the car and no difference. I parked it for a few hours and hopped in again without touching the linkage again and it's perfect ? It was only crunching for 2 small drives I went on. Wondering if it's worth opening up, or if I should wait and see if it reoccurres. I destroyed 5th gear in my last esprit se, so I'm somewhat familiar with working in these transmissions, but nowhere near an expert. 

Other than that I'm having a great time down here! 

IMG_6125.JPG

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In my experience, mechanical problems don't usually heal up, and if you've checked the gear linkage and clutch release are operating correctly, then it sounds to me like your 2nd gear synchro is failing. Best to have a look inside the box as early as possible to save any further damage.

Margate Exotics.

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I'll tell you what I think has happened from personal experience and having seen many others with the same problem. As the pics above show, you have broken one or more likely, a few of the dog teeth. The broken bits were probably jammed in the gear assembly causing difficulty shifting until they eventually worked their way out of the assembly and are now laying in the bottom of the gearbox sump. The 2nd gear is now weaker due to the missing teeth and at some point in the future, the rest of the teeth will get sheared off and you will lose 2nd gear completely. Probably not an eminent repair at the moment but will require a gearbox out and disassembly in your future. It may be next week or a year from now but it will happen...

1995 S4s

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The gear oil was changed only a few hundred miles ago with no leakage to my knowledge. However I am going to drain it tomorrow when I can pick up some more, and inspect if the magnet has caught anything.  I'll keep you guys updated. Thanks! 

Edited by 1998v8
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I may very well have jumped the gun in my previous post and didn't pay enough attention to your first two posts. I thought you couldn't get into second and then it cleared up later. (what can I say, it was late ;-)).

Your symptoms could still be related to a damaged second gear but does sound more like a bad synchro as others have said. As Barry said above, if you double clutch and it doesn't crunch, then it's probably the synchro. 

@jacques, I've had to replace the 2nd gear on two different S4s's that I've owned and one in a V8 for a friend. Have also read about others in the various forums having to do the same. In my case, the symptoms were not being able to shift into second gear after a hard crunch, but after a period of time, all appeared normal again. Then, a few months later, losing 2nd gear permanently and having to open the gearbox and finding what was in the pics posted above. (those were my pics). In my opinion, the teeth don't all break off at once. It's a few each time it happens until finally they are all gone.  

1995 S4s

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Not long replaced it with nice new syntrans. Few spots on the garage floor as normal - but no worries about the box being full of oil.

so - I wonder if it's these lil dog teeth that have gone? Getting somewhat bored of taking gearboxes out now.

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