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swindon_alan

I knew it was a bad idea...

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...parking next to @Barrykearley at Castle Combe yesterday. I've caught gearbox disease from him. Sigh.

Also, stupid here should keep his bloody mouth shut about having a trouble free car.

We went down to the White Lion Antiques classic car bash at Hartley Wintney this morning. Went for a walk around then came back to the V8 to find a note on the windscreen from some kind soul - "there's a puddle of fluid under the back of your car". There was indeed. Quite a sizable one. I know the driveshaft seals need doing but that's more of a weep. Getting underneath I find a weird hole at the back of the fifth gear end cover. It looks as though a boss has been broken off, there's a threaded bit left in there as well, like a plug bolt has had the top sheared off. As it is about a third of the way up from the bottom of the box I'm not surprised that it is p*ssing oil out. Hey up, at least the box still had oil in it when I drove it there, even if it was low.

I dash off to the tea room and they kindly supply a used cork which I whittle down and screw into the hole. It stops the deluge but there are strange diagonal cracks away from the hole where it is still seeping. Better go and get something to bodge this with before it empties... So we have a very, very gentle drive to Halfords in Basingstoke. Not my favourite shop, but needs must. I come back out with an armful of overpriced ideas. Cleaning the area up I think the best bet will be to get it as grease free as possible, put some instant metal epoxy on the cracks then squeeze as much oil in as I can before plugging the hole with a blanking grommit and a shedload of RTV. Repair kit:

592b24e12c001_repairkit.thumb.jpg.5c7b2e2c352536d1cc5dfe03aeaadfa5.jpg

Just a note on the Evo-Stik putty, it's brilliant stuff. Unusually an adhesive product does what it says. Let the epoxy set, get some temporary oil in and then a shedload of RTV over the grommit. I left it for half an hour and it wasn't weeping, so off home. Slowly down the M4, sitting with the lorries at 56mph. A temporary repair but it worked.

bodge.jpg.66cb12e3a09c65096132e5a42c06b7df.jpg

Once home I peel the RTV off to see what is what.

hole.jpg.7ba52793277322e67f1ec2309d83193d.jpg

The grey stuff is the putty which is well and truly bonded. I have no idea what has happened here, what could knock this boss off - if that was what it was? Time for the parts manual and Google images (I know that some of you UN1 gurus already know what this horror is). The Esprit parts manual is not very helpful, it doesn't detail the area. After a lot of trawling on UN1 not finding any end case images featuring anything like a cap here, I find a post on a Delorean forum.

http://www.noroads.com/delorean/projects/3281/?content=3

"Now attention turns to the gearbox. There are two big common problems with it: the second gear roll pin sheers off and the primary shaft but has an occasional tendency to back off and drill a hole through the end case, ruining a perfectly good transmission. Here you can see where the nut has started to back off after ~23k miles."

IMG_0555.jpg.57f0fedb3164a9d40595405157b94802.jpg

****, that's what has happened then. The nut on the end of the secondary shaft (I think he meant that, not primary shaft looking at the picture) securing fifth gear has come loose. That's exactly what I can see, the end of the shaft and the inside of the nut thread. The nut has a lip on it which is what is sticking out through the hole. God's teeth...

nut.jpg.a240ca8397baa164f41a4a490c712b8d.jpg

What to do then? I will drain the rest of the oil out tomorrow and see how much aluminium swarf there is in it. Whip the boot floor out and take the end case off and assess the situation. I don't really want to have to pull the box if I can help it. Replacing the nut and patching the hole with that sooper-dooper epoxy putty would suit me if it is viable?

@CHANGES, @Vulcan Grey, @toyroom, @lotus4s any thoughts, suggestions, comments would be most welcome on how to play this. Oh and just to mention that the (previously GTO kit upgraded) box still sounds and works fine. Thank you in advance.


I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob)

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Them nuts should be really fking tight - 200ft lbs or such like.

thats proper shit chap - but - doesn't sound like you need the box out. Can you get all gears ?? End cover is probably all you will require.

Hang on - if that's spewed a roll pin - it's box out chap....


Only here once

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Don't think there's any other problems Barry, it still works and sounds fine in all gears.

The secondary shaft nut should be at 20 da Nm according to the UN1 manual, that's about 148 lb ft.

I'm hoping that I can get away lightly with this one. Patch the cover up and find another as and when. Too busy with so many other things and I need the car on the road for the summer!


I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob)

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That cover will repair with a decent welder chap


Only here once

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1 hour ago, swindon_alan said:

I've caught gearbox disease from him. Sigh.

Oh dear!.....what a pair of dodgy trannies :P.

Seriously though, I hope the damage is limited to the cover, as Barry said a decent ally welder should be able to patch that up. Unfortunately I recently got rid of the four UN1 016's I had, l was going to keep one for spares, would have had that cover and second gear synchro ring for @Barrykearley they all went to Kevin at GTO for spares so he should have the parts if required.

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Alan,

Looks like you may have dodged a big bullet. Hopefully the threads on the shaft are not knackered. Definitely replace the nut and be sure to use Loctite 648 on the threads and stake it on the flat once it's torqued. Torque spec on the Secondary shaft nut should be 250 Nm (185 lb. ft). 

Try to flush out the swarf as best you can. It might be worth filling once or twice with some cheap gear oil. 

I would be a little nervous about trusting the epoxy patch for any length of time, try to get the housing professionally repaired or replace it as was suggested...

Good luck!

 

 

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1995 S4s

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An impressive get-you-going repair when some others I could mention would be stuck in a swimming pool car park waiting for a tow!

On a more serious note, that housing will take some repairing, I guess you'll be taking it for an assessment this week? Might be worth having a word with the chap that did Barry's gearbox for a spare?

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Margate Exotics.

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41 minutes ago, ian29gte said:

Might be worth having a word with the chap that did Barry's gearbox for a spare? 

Ill mention it tomorrow

43 minutes ago, ian29gte said:

An impressive get-you-going repair when some others I could mention would be stuck in a swimming pool car park waiting for a tow

Never ever been towed in any of my esprits......... "tempting fate" :ph34r:

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Only here once

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It does look like you got pretty lucky. As far as not destroying the entire gearbox.

You could replace just the rear housing, just make sure you get the correct one for your model.  Your '96 V8 will have the right hand translator from the '94-'97 Esprits, which is different than the earlier Left hand translator setup, and the later '98+ direct cable shift setup...

You could have it welded, it's just a cover in that area.

I would open the transmission casing halves and clean out any bits of aluminum...!

The nuts are supposed to have these lips bent in with a punch to prevent them from loosening...  In the photo above, you can see that one had spun off and it looks like the dented in lip was pretty minimally dented, so it couldn't prevent the rotation.

Here are mine for example.

K74WqabrkBG5MBqmOOBe17yIqOf7hJBxsP3zl58G

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Travis

Vulcan Grey 89SE

My Lotus Photo and Projects Album

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Travis and Jim (and Barry in advance), thank you very much for your help and assistance, it is very appreciated. I haven't had a chance to do anything with it yet, the weather has not been very conducive! I think the first step will be to have a look at the remaining oil once I have drained it and see how many aluminium crud there is in it. Point taken on the cover, I have found a local alloy welder and will go for that option if another right model cover is not readily available. I can always take my time on getting a mint one at some point. Loctite 648 on order.

SJ list genuine secondary shaft nuts at about £30 all in or "Steve's alternative" for a tenner. Looks ok to me?

592d9a3adf003_secondaryshaftnut.JPG.4a0e23e14bac18a029dd3be741336cc0.JPG

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I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob)

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Good writeup Alan, and nice cost-effective fixes. Hope it works out in the long run as well!

Do you have any theory as to why this happened? You mentioned having uprated components inside the box; had that particular nut been removed as a part of fitting the new parts or was this a problem from the factory so to speak?

Did you ever hear anything strange from the transmission (grinding etc) prior to this happening? 

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Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '91 Elan SE | '97 XK8

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Hello Vanya. Yes, a previous owner had the Quaife upgrade fitted by GTO hence the box must have been apart to fit the new shafts etc. As Vulcan Grey pointed out, it didn't look as though that nut had been peened over properly and I didn't see any sign of any really high strength Loctite on the thread which I would assume would hang around as it is probably pretty thick stuff when set. I'm not saying it was GTO as it might have subsequently been played with as the upgrade was quite a few years back. Whatever, it had not been reassembled adequately and worked loose as per the DeLorean post above.

There weren't any symptoms apart from the oil puddle although after that I did notice a bit of a whine in fifth when I carefully drove it home. It is amazing that the box was not destroyed really, with nothing holding the fifth gear cog on the secondary shaft I assume that the helical cut direction kept it pressed against the bearing/face. Even driven gently that's still a lot of torque...

A bullet definitely dodged.

 


I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob)

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The nut is known to occasionally wind itself off the shaft on these gearboxes, a symptom of this is fifth being hard to engage.

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So I hear it's an early warning of possible cam belt failure :sofa:

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Only here once

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