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Very sad about this.  Just seen the building from my train on the Westway coming into Paddington.  It's still smoking, the air smells of plastic.

RIP those people that have died.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LondonFire?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2017%2F06%2F14%2Fgrenfell-tower-fire-massive-blaze-engulfs-block-flats-near-white1%2F

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House systems are relatively cheap but for a high rise it needs storage big tanks ( mains water cannot keep up with the demand) and pumps and secondary pumps plus maintenance.  I have had this co

What I dont understand is that tests on the cladding seemed to be failing every hour if you get regular news updates.  If that is the case why is this stuff made, why is it sold, why is it used (no ma

If you are referring to Composite Panels, Most new buildings I see now are PIR/PUR/Phenolic or rock wool, however polystyrene panels were made by the major manufacturers in the past and remain prevale

Absolute horrific pictures coming out last night, with people jumping and throwing kids out of windows.

Apparently fire alarms didn't go off and the fire spread so quickly, many didn't get a chance to get out. 

Condolences to all those effected.

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http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

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One theory is the refurbishment fitted plastic cladding to the exterior and that ignited and spread the fire rapidly....whatever it was, fire should never be able to spread at the rate it did in a building of that sort. Also seems that the fire doors to the staircase were open and the stairs filled with smoke. The "advice to residents" signs in the block were to stay in your flat in case of fire....(!) Witnesses describing horrendous scenes... Just awful.

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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The truth will no doubt come out eventually, but knowing builders they are always looking at ways of saving pennies and cutting corners.

There are a few tower blocks near this one, used to drive past them on a regular basis. They were not nice things to look and, nor were they nice places to live.

James Martin (JayEmm)
Director of Photography & Car Enthusiast

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Those plastic fires burn pretty hot. Many may remember an overpass section of major route I-95 in Atlanta being destroyed because some homeless people lit fire to stuff being stored under the overpass (some of which was large plastic pipes). The cement structure crumbled and had to be torn out for something like 300 feet (from memory). 

 

As for the London fire: Totally horrible and I hope some lessons are learned from this tragedy

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7 hours ago, JayEmm said:

The truth will no doubt come out eventually, but knowing builders they are always looking at ways of saving pennies and cutting corners.

There are a few tower blocks near this one, used to drive past them on a regular basis. They were not nice things to look and, nor were they nice places to live.

Not the builders more likely the client. 

Very sad though

hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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 Yep, if the client spec'd it and then got signed off by building control I would say that is where the blame is unless the cladding contractor cut a corner. Although they should have known the product. 

i have wired a few big blocks and it might surprise you that there is not usually a requirement for fire alarms in the the communal areas they use containment within the flats, the stairwells and AOV's (automatic opening vents) to manage the smoke in the communal areas. 

I totally disagree with this btw, anything over 4 storeys should be protected by sprinklers if that had happened not one person would have died in that fire. But it is very costly especially to retro fit. I would not live in a highrise with out one. 

Do yourself a favour, sit the kids down work out your escape routes I live in a 2 story house and we all know how to get out in a fire, this was all to do with the twin towers. I think it was City Bank in there and they had a fire officer that made them do a fire drill every week and I believe they all got out. Since then any fire alarm in any building I am the first out I never wait I just go. 

Terrrible tragedy that could have been avoided, once agin hats off to the emergency services and my thoughts to all them poor families 

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Agree - well said chap - it's simply frightening.

ive burnt the very same product used in the cladding on the bonfire at home - it's sure goes up. I would think this will be a wake up call and a real change in building refund practices 

A side note - I was very annoyed to see sadiq Khan demanding answers today on the news. Only days ago he was saying terrorist attrocaties were what was expected in a big city...... he needs to go and now

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Never lived in a high rise, but think I'd have one of these as an option if I did (with racing fire suit and short term O2 supply as necessary)

 

 

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Barry, you know mate how many buildings have you been in with fire exits with a load of shit stored in them, fire doors wedged opened.

I was in a law firm in Farringdon the other day the whole stairwell full of filing. I did point it out but they just shrugged. What they forget is ultimately it is on their heads. 

Bob America is way ahead of us over here. I believe you have sprinklers in high rise? That kit btw is a bloody brilliant idea. Short term cheap fix. 

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Mark I don't think we know yet, but it can be made of literally anything but I reckon the issue here will be the insulation. I might be wrong. 

Just watching the news and they reckon all stair cores went up at the same time that points to fire doors not shut to me. Saying that and Mr Kearley will back me up on this. All electrical and mechanical risers need to be sealed I reckon 90% of the ones I see have holes knocked in them as "trades" men smash holes in them to get cables, pipes or whatever through them and never seal them back up. 

I am properly paranoid about fire, as you can see. 

Check newsnight out now all about cladding 

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Never seen any risers sealed frankly - it's an absolute disgrace.

in this instance - it would have made no difference. External cladding is a foam based solid product. Won't burn if you simply throw a match at it - but have a proper go at burning it and it goes up like a Chinese lantern - hence the 15 minute inferno that was seen. 

Horrifically - most tower blocks are like this. Hardly any have any fire protection - plant rooms are bloody dangerous and the authorities do not give a single flying f....

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And people putting non fire rated downlights in a fire rated ceiling. I can't tell you how many times I have seen that. This is why this passive fire protection is complete bollocks.

You only need to compromise it somewhere and the whole thing goes out the window and this has massive implications when you live in a tower block.  I only know this because I am in the trade if I was a practical DIYer I would crack on and never think about it. 

Barry your right about the cladding, but what I am trying to say is passive fire protection means no one does anything to their flat from hand over day. They never know because no one ever tells them and if they did what difference would it make. 

Just as a very small example and nothing like what happened today but I tested my house first week in, I am not paranoid about electrical installations in fact I am pretty relaxed as long as not dangerous but I found part of my ring main and I am not making this up, wired in speaker wire. The knob I bought the house from was a lawyer and keen DIYer. 

I am now going to donate a few quid to the crowd funding for these poor families. 

 

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Absolutely terrible, having grown up in London i know the area well.  Regardless, it's just so sad, London in 2017 this shouldn't be happening!

Barry this has got nothing to do with Sadiq Khan, other than as major he's right to ask for answers, why would you be asking for him to go?!? perhaps you should be looking at his predecessor... 

What on earth happened with that cladding, why was the cosmetic cladding put in place but the sprinklers not.

Obviously as plebs we don't know what really happened and we can only hope it'll come out in the wash and we can deal with it, but it's hard to look past the cuts to the fire services of the last few years.  It now feels too familiar to the police and other cuts to be a coincidence.  Those cuts have made a difference, a very grave difference.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/firefighters-cry-as-10-london-stations-including-clerkenwell-close-due-to-cuts-9050079.html

 

Look at Boris' face, outright lying and he knows it, you can see it, he gets called out for it. FFS.

 

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@franjipane sorry maybe I was not clear in my opinion on Khan.

after a horrific terrorist incident where scores were injured or died - he did not stand on the soap box and demand answers - he simply made a soft excuse that these types of incidents are almost expected in a big city. Failing utterly to condemn the mosques which are hotbeds for these fundamentalists. I'd like him to have been demanding a response from them in a similar way to which he did regarding this tragic incident.  The man is clearly torn between his faith and views and his political views. Tim Farron at least resigned

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Ahh I see. Going off topic anyway but mosques have been chucking out the naughty ones while papers and TV have been giving them platforms. It's arguable that papers and TV are the ones providing inspiration for extremists not the mosques. Not provable either way.

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This is just truly horrific. Our thoughts and condolences go out to all involved.

As for the fucking politicians wading in on this (on both sides) - just F OFF

Harriet bloody Harmon was blaming Govt cuts - The Council spent £10m fucking quid on what appears to be a vanity project to prettify some ugly buildings in a posh area.

This has NOTHING to do with cash - it is ALL about vanity - ANY and ALL of those responsible should be ashamed of themselves. Whatever happened to safety first ffs!

These people paid rent (presumably?). They deserved WAY better. If this was owned by a Private Landlord there would be hell to pay, let's see who steps up and takes responsibility.....

Is the price for that bit in Yen or £?

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There were 4 two bedroom flats and 2 single bedroom flats on each floor, times that by the 20(?) accommodation floors and that's 120 flats. I'd be surprised if it cost THAT much to install sprinklers - I mean, £1.2m / 120 = £10,000 per flat..........

Hindsight is everything but it appears (from the photos I've seen) that there are at least 2 or 3 other blocks that have had the same treatment.........

Is the price for that bit in Yen or £?

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think we are about to see some premier division buck passing, already saying that all regs were met and all building work carried out as spec. Sprinkler systems are only advisory which means they don`t get done.Seems people are saying the residents weren`t being listened too which seems to be the case with everything these days as nobody wants to accept any responsibility for anything and just pass it on somewhere else. 

hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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Sprinklers cant be that expensive. My parents house built on  a brown field site at the end of our garden has a full sprinkler system throughout   as the driveway  is further than the hose length on a single fire engine.  1000 gallons in the loft with pumps and loads of other gubbins plus at least one sprinkler head in each room and some have 4. 

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It is expensive but how much can you put on a life and how much do you reckon the cladding cost? What would we all rather have? Paint the outside and put in a sprinkler system. 

As I said above Passive Fire systems work on the day of hand over,well to be fair I have seen air tests bodged many a time.  If you have a fire compartment one hole in it, it is next to useless. 

We need to change to the American system, now. 

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