Poll - problems with seats

[PeterSweden 60]

I intend to contact Lotus CEO Jean Marc Gales regarding the problems with seats in V6/350/380.

[Mark030358 503]

Good man. My vote is in there!

cheers

 

[mickv 17]

Sport 380 - my driver's seat rocks back and forth.  Didn't notice it at first, but it seem to be getting worse with time.

[GFWilliams 1,769]

Exige S, doesn't rock but squeaks

[Crouchy 121]

Drivers seat has started to rock. First 8k or so miles were fine but its been getting worse (may 2015 build Car)

[stratosboy 38 1 Vehicles]

my seat problems and dissatisfaction are well documented on here and other forums, thanks for taking this on Peter, you have my full support. Driver seat runner's on Exige/Elise models are not fit for purpose and needs resolving.

[PeterSweden 60]

I will contact mr Gales next week. 100% promise to all of you.

[swanny71 53]

Drivers seat loose/rocks on its runners but no rattles/squeaks. (2013, V6)

Edited July 22, 2017 by swanny71

[Kristof Thys 113 1 Vehicles]

As stated previously; seat runner replaced under warranty and 500 kms later again same problem.  I have bolted the seat fixed so works super... but agree that it should work "as intended".

 

Keep us posted ;-)  very curious

[Bibs 9,266 4 Vehicles]

I believe a fix for this may be available now, maybe even for the past few weeks. I will check on Monday and get back to you with what I find out. 

[Mark030358 503]

Nice one Bibs... be interested to see what it is...

 

[stephenwhyte 1,520]

1 hour ago, Mark030358 said:

Nice one Bibs... be interested to see what it is...

 

Buy an Evora!

[Steve Banks 35]

All three of my Exige v6's that I have owned have had major problems with the rails. Infact my current one failed completely on Friday night on the way home when I had to break suddenly and then was thrown back from the peddles which was a proper brown trouser moment. I am actually amazed that they are allowed to still sell the car knowing there is such a dangerous fault with the drivers seat. 

[Mark030358 503]

9 hours ago, Steve Banks said:

on Friday night on the way home when I had to break suddenly and then was thrown back from the peddles which was a proper brown trouser moment. I am actually amazed that they are allowed to still sell the car knowing there is such a dangerous fault with the drivers seat

This should go to JMG and also to IVA... clearly dangerous....

thanks

 

[PeterSweden 60]

I will mail him later today. Got his mail address now.

[The Pits 4,215 1 Vehicles]

Appalling and inexcusable for a seat to fail on any car but never encountered any problems with my seats. Would insist on a permanent fix if I had though. What actually is the problem and why would some cars be immune?

[TBD 773 2 Vehicles]

1 hour ago, The Pits said:

Appalling and inexcusable for a seat to fail on any car but never encountered any problems with my seats. Would insist on a permanent fix if I had though. What actually is the problem and why would some cars be immune?

The primary issue seems to be vertical play in the seat rail. As a result the seat pitches forward on braking, back on acceleration, etc. Whether it moves freely or only under load, or abruptly in certain situations seems to be coincidental.

The fact that many drivers push the seat full back for ingress and exit seems to be a contributing factor. 

[Bibs 9,266 4 Vehicles]

2 minutes ago, TBD said:

The fact that many drivers push the seat full back for ingress and exit seems to be a contributing factor. 

I understand that this is the main contributing factor in fact.

[PeterSweden 60]

Mail sent to mr Gales!

[MartynB 238]

Being 6'3", I moved the seat to the rear and left it there when I picked the car up.

It still slackened slightly over time, giving rise to an annoying rock. Shortly before the other recent loose drivers seat thread, I decided to do the fix from the SEL0C wiki. Here's what I wrote in the other thread...

Quote

I actually did that (the 'playground' fix) a couple of weeks ago. It is quite a faff, but does work. I thought it might as I had the same problem with runners in the Caterham, which are a similar design and had done a similar fix with some success.

I found the trickiest parts to be getting some of the bolts out that hold the seat to the runners, where access is limited, then also getting the runners to line back up with the chassis holes when reinstalling the seat. Fiddly

Once I got it all back together, I thought it was unsuccessful. Still had a wobble. Gah!

Then I sat in it and the seat and it actually clicked into place. Doh! Now the wobble is pretty much gone.

The caveat is, I'm an engineer. My wife and I built a Caterham. I'm good with tools and spatial reasoning. Not everyone is, so I can't recommend this job to everyone. Some people will have to go via dealers, warranties etc to get a replacement that is nice and tight.

The issue here is the tightness of the fit of the stamped steel sections of the runners. Ideally when new they should be quite stiff, so that as they bed in they ease up without becoming loose enough to wobble/rock.

These runners, like most others are made of pressed steel, shaped into interlocking channels, rather like drawer runners, but captive. They also contain some sets of ball bearings, held in channels between the runner faces. They provide the rolling contact that supports the occupant weight, but if you pull up on the seat, the runners will touch each other metal to metal. In order for the runners to operate, there will be a tiny amount of play between these to conditions, otherwise the metal to metal contact would make the runners hard and rough to slide when you wanted to move the seat.

Ideally though the slack wants to be almost zero. The SEL0C fix is to remove the runners and use a vice to crimp the channels until the metal to metal contact is pretty much binding. It's a bit tricky and I would have preferred to have a spare pair before doing it. So I did it slightly less than I would have liked, so I still have a tiny bit of play, but much less.

The thing to appreciate is that these are really tiny amounts of play. The problem is that the seats are totally rigid and lightly padded, so any play is massively amplified. Most cars have separate squabs and bases, each attached to the sliding frame. This allows them to significantly reduce the sensation of play.

I had intended and others had also suggested 3D printing some shim parts, but looking at the mechanism I'm not sure how well that could work and still allow the seat to move. I wondered about milling ramps from Delrin (tough plastic aka Acetal), to fit over the rear mount bolt head, so that the top runner grounds out on it in the far rear position. In the end I figured actually bending the runner channels was a better solution.

I'm waiting with baited breath to find out what the factory fix is, if indeed there is one.

The total failure that Steve suffered is to my mind unlikely to be due to the play, more likely he had a properly defective part in the locking mechanism. Not good at all, but I suspect not systemic.

[Gashead1105 281]

2 hours ago, Bibs said:

I understand that this is the main contributing factor in fact.

Hmmm. I'm not exactly the biggest person in the world and even I have to do that. If the sliders can't take the seat being moved back and forth on a low mileage car then there is surely something wrong.

[SamoL 21]

2 hours ago, Bibs said:

I understand that this is the main contributing factor in fact.

I am 179cm tall and I do a bit of "entering the car yoga" - I get in and out without moving the seat. There is quite some space behind my seat especially in Elise with standard steering wheel (would need to bring it a bit closer for use with harnesses). But as it is just me (and rarely someone else) driving my Elise and Exige the rails don't see a lot of moving back and forth. Only at dealership.

Still both my seats are rocking. If I use harnesses this is less disturbing. If I use seat belts, it is very disturbing. So I don't think moving the seat a lot or using it full back is necessary for this.

Edited July 24, 2017 by SamoL

[MartynB 238]

@Bibs any news on this? You're better placed than the rest of us to get a straight answer.

[TBD 773 2 Vehicles]

@MartynB I think your writeup describes the issue excellently. You might add that the long seatback actually amplifies the play and this is what you notice most when driving.

I discarded the 3D-printing idea because most printing materials aren't designe to handle the forces. It might seem to work on day one, but will quickly fail (and fall apart). I'm also skeptical that a shimm would last much longer.

The only permanent solution would likely be new and improved runners manufactured to much more stringent tolerances. Good seat runners have two sets of bearings, one on the top like ours and anoher on the bottom so that there is always constant pressure.

 

 

 

 

[PeterSweden 60]

Got reply now! I let you know more soon, must run. But it seems like they are not aware of the problem, or at least wont admit it.