Exige V6 vs Cayman GT4

[Bibs]

It's just an old joke Tim, makes me giggle still

[The Pits]

Trouble is, @430CUP you started with: "let not pretend Lotus get anywhere near their weight or BHP where the GT4 will make more BHP than Porsche quote."

That's a pretty big claim that you won't be able to substantiate. It also suggests that we're all deluded and pretending on here yet you also say there is a lot of criticism of the V6 here too. So we can't all be 'one make' owners talking bollocks then can we? It's all very antagonistic.

If you're all about talking straight and being honest then start with what you know to be true from experience, not what some bloke said or what you read online.

At the moment it seems like you think everything is shit. Fair enough but rather goes against the idea that you love cars.

Rein it in a bit and then we can have a more worthwhile discussion.

 

 

[Tim Raven]

As ever made me feel like an idiot !

Jonny, remember how you used to take me to pieces on PH and the other one over your unending support of Danny, at least I won on something !

[430CUP]

22 minutes ago, The Pits said:

Trouble is, @430CUP you started with: "let not pretend Lotus get anywhere near their weight or BHP where the GT4 will make more BHP than Porsche quote."

That's a pretty big claim that you won't be able to substantiate. It also suggests that we're all deluded and pretending on here yet you also say there is a lot of criticism of the V6 here too. So we can't all be 'one make' owners talking bollocks then can we? It's all very antagonistic.

If you're all about talking straight and being honest then start with what you know to be true from experience, not what some bloke said or what you read online.

At the moment it seems like you think everything is shit. Fair enough but rather goes against the idea that you love cars.

Rein it in a bit and then we can have a more worthwhile discussion.

 

what have you done to you're car over oem now ?  lets start from there then and what issue you think an OEM V6 has out the box when driven towards it's limits  ?

 

I listed all the things I do not like about my GT4 and have had to fit after market parts to get to a geo which works. I listed 5 things I don't like you tube style, have a go :-)

Also  It's quite well known that Porsche figures have always been conservative, not so much the BHP but the stats and timing,  ave Joe can go out and do even beat Porker times , this can bee seen with sport Auto times on Porsche cars beating Porsche stats by quite a margin. it's nothing new with Porsche.

you never read about Porkers not performing even on forums which  show all the downsides of cars ,  but you do read (and not just one offs) that Lotus don't make the BHP claimed ! if it were a one off then I would not take note but you read it time and time again, so there must be something in it.

I do point out the downside more than the upsides because I find cars (and owners)  frustrating esp the newer cars with eps and the like hence looking at Lotus again.

one make forums are really shit to get real info out of owners :-(  you have not come up with anything worth reading yet which is disappointing.
Do the 5 things I hate about my Lotus, it' will be refreshing ;-)

[The Pits]

30 minutes ago, Tim Raven said:

As ever made me feel like an idiot !

Jonny, remember how you used to take me to pieces on PH and the other one over your unending support of Danny, at least I won on something !

Forgive me Tim but I don't remember that, nor remember being any kind of supporter of Dany Bahar but back then Lotus were genuinely facing extinction I found all the adoration for well-funded Porsche and ridicule of Lotus very hard to bear. I think you remember me from a very difficult time when pistonheads, originally a TVR based site, was invaded by a very intolerant hoard of Porsche fans led by their Furer Chris Harris who made it their business to ridicule anyone who was stupid enough to consider any other brand. He actually ridiculed me personally on Twitter which I thought was deeply unprofessional and highly unpleasant but I ended up posting some pretty incendiary stuff, though that was kind of what pistonheads was all about then. I've moved on and left pistonheads to the Porsche fans, I think here at least we've learned that it's much better to communicate with each other like we do in real life. I've met a number of people who can be quite abrasive online and they are always much more likeable and reasonable in person.

 

[LF1]

@The Pits Love the way you split this on my comment... now it looks like I'm the firestarter!

[The Pits]

You most definitely are!

[alias23]

38 minutes ago, 430CUP said:

what have you done to you're car over oem now ?  lets start from there then and what issue you think an OEM V6 has out the box when driven towards it's limits  ?

I think I have earned the right to be able to comment on this one given my experience based on my Exige V6S

- Gear Change does have a problem on track

- Seat runners are crap and constantly have play

- Understeer needs a geo (but what new car doesn't need a geo these days)

- Suspension (need Nitrons for track days, unless your a 60/70% type of driver)

- Brakes do need upgrading, definitely fluid, and fitting decent pads (Performance Friction)

- Lotus parts department are shocking, I know from personal experience and cost. Legal theft and ridiculous back order problems. 

Two reasons why I feel compelled to write these points: One there are Lotus owners who are diehards, and thats cool by the way, but they refuse to believe people are having these problems with their V6 and instead replay 'never had that problem' which is frustrating when people are experiencing real challenges and need Lotus to listen, step up, and resolve.

Two, a number of these problems still exist even with the new cars and when you're talking £80-90K thats a lot of money to be having problems with lotus parts department or seat runners for example, and im not going back into the limited rpm debate but theres enough informed views to build a conclusion. 

Lotus had a great thing going with a V6 being in the £55-60K new bracket it opened up a market to those who want a real weekend and track day car and had the money to afford such a luxury toy. We can't deny the V6 is a toy, its not a daily, yes some people use them as dailys and we seem to applaud them as martyrs which I just dont get but its a toy its not a car. When Lotus start selling the Exige platform for £80-90K they do start opening themselves up to other brands such as Porsche whereby people do have to question the what they're getting for their money. Can people afford these higher prices for a toy?

The GT cars on the other hand (and I say GT cars as I dont have a GT4 but I did have a GT3) are a more rounded track and road car. They are in my opinion the perfect balance of being able to drive to track, have a good day, and then drive back home in comfort with a nice coffee, stereo, and bluetooth technology. Oh, I mentioned having a coffee and we all know the tower of negative commentary that can stir in our Lotus world as having a cup holder is sacrilege!

For me it all depends on what you want from the car. If you want an all rounder get a Porsche, if you want a toy get an Exige (actually better yet get a Caterham once you've seen the replacement parts from Lotus!).

 

 

[430CUP]

2 hours ago, The Pits said:

You most definitely are!

still waiting for a realistic post  ! at least Imran  has posted :-)

 

The seat runners are shocking,  i went to look at a sport 380 and the seats still moved a lot !!!

why are the basic faults  NOT being fixed 3 years on ?  but they keep pumping out new models with all the same issues !

it's very hard to go the Lotus route atm unless you keep below £30k and accept it's still a kit car of sorts and the value is at £30k.
I have my eye on the 2014 Elise Club racer in SC form for about £30k it seems like a sweet spot,, the V6 seems poor value esp these new cars over my GT4. and no cheaper to even run on track days over Porkers now.

 

Edited August 8, 2017 by 430CUP

[Tim Raven]

Oh come on Jonny, I might be loosing it a bit, but you used to be like Danny Bahar's PR Man of the web forum's, aggressively defending his every move ? I remember once on Pistonheads, actually asking the question "are you a Lotus employee" ?

[LF1]

@430CUPThe Elise S CR is a good call. It is where we started our Lotus journey in 2014  and most likely where we'd still be had it not been for the lure of the beautiful LF1. At the time we took delivery there were supply issues at Lotus so we ended up having a stock car. It was lovely but had the comfort pack which we'd not have opted for. Try and get one with the forged wheels if you can. 

That said - if you can stretch to an S or 220 Cup it's probably worth it. We've been round the houses with Lotus Cars and find that is the best all rounder. We've never owned a car so long. And ironically us buying the GT4 was simply so we could keep the Elise. It really is remarkable fun on track and if your a decent driver you can give the big boys a run for their money and don't get bogged down too much with traffic like we found with the V6. 

Cheeper to run too, the V6 was an epic car on track but we found it ate tyres (nitron upgrade and increased -camber helped), but along with petrol and brake wear track days worked out about £1k a pop. The general oninion seems to be the V6 Cup suffers less tyre wear. All we've done with the Elise is upgraded the pads, although next step is suspension which were actively investigating. I was keen to get the very most out of the car before making changes this time. 

[430CUP]

here is my old Elise and Exige I am still a Lotus boy some where ;-)  the Elise was Motorsport car number 008  and the Exige was the full 46mmOhlins + AP set up.

both great fun and peanuts to track.

People think I am anti Lotus, but that's far from it, I am a realist and that's upsets a lot of people ;-)

I hope you dial in that GT4 as it is not great out the box lol.  you only need a set of rear toe links mind you and then you can get a nice geo. I run -2.5 up front and -1.8 at the back camber.

I hope the car has Cup 2's as the dunlops are shit imo if it's on those.

 

my Elise was the first S2 to have >150BHp from 2001  and waspy came after mine was a 135R look well befor the 135R came out.

my Exige on track just the 190NA one, but it seems to over take all the S1's  in my vid ;-)

 

 

Edited August 8, 2017 by 430CUP

[430CUP]

27 minutes ago, LF1 said:

@430CUPThe Elise S CR is a good call. It is where we started our Lotus journey in 2014  and most likely where we'd still be had it not been for the lure of the beautiful LF1. At the time we took delivery there were supply issues at Lotus so we ended up having a stock car. It was lovely but had the comfort pack which we'd not have opted for. Try and get one with the forged wheels if you can. 

That said - if you can stretch to an S or 220 Cup it's probably worth it.

 

I cannot see in real terms what the 220 CUP would offer me for another £9k !  I love the CUP look but is it £9k better !   most look basic spec So no nice disc etc on the 2nd hand ones.

9k buys some nice upgrades for a CR.  the 250BHP upgrade, some shocks and 2 piece disc with change.

Edited August 8, 2017 by 430CUP

[LF1]

5 minutes ago, 430CUP said:

I cannot see in real terms what the 220 CUP would offer me for another £9k !  I love the CUP look but is it £9k better ! 

 

Probably about 10 seconds round Hethel 

In all seriousness, it really is worth it - there is real down force that you can feel, a stiffer setup and looking at how few are on the market at the moment i guess they may well hold their value. Consider the Original S Cups (first 6 months of build) were the only ones to go through Motorsport - all the latter ones were actually production line cars. Also the current model has a few nice tweaks (gearbox and suspension) but they don't have the same aero pack.

[The Pits]

1 hour ago, Tim Raven said:

Oh come on Jonny, I might be loosing it a bit, but you used to be like Danny Bahar's PR Man of the web forum's, aggressively defending his every move ? I remember once on Pistonheads, actually asking the question "are you a Lotus employee" ?

I've been openly critical of Dany Bahar on here for as long as I can remember so that's a significant U turn if your memory is better than mine! I do remember hoping for the best when he took the reins. I liked his ambition for Lotus and the very brief moment of confidence that he brought to the factory. He did a decent job of updating the test track too. But while there was merit in his vision his execution was a disaster for Lotus and brought the company to its knees as we all know. The current period of austerity, which is hopefully coming to an end soon, is a direct result of his mis-management and the less said about what he spent on his bathroom the better! When I've got nothing better to do I'll trawl through some old Pistonheads posts to try and find what you're referring to. More importantly if I offended you in any way at the time I regret that and can only apologise now.

I think the question about working for Lotus came from the playground actually, nest of vipers that they are over there I believe the accusation came as a result of being the last remaining actual Lotus enthusiast in the 'Lotus Enthusiast Club'!

Knocking Lotus has become a recognised sport over there, something MrDavid Noble appears to enjoy in his spare time also. Many Brits aren't comfortable with praise or positivity, be it for the weather, cricket team or least of all British built cars! Some strange psychological remnant from the Empire I believe. If we can't utterly dominate everyone else in the world the whole thing is just an embarrassment and we better get the ridicule in straight away to avoid further disgrace.

 

[Dan E]

Just to confirm I really do love my 1981 dry sump TE. Sparky loved it to.

just thought I would lighten the mood a bit and my wife really wants a 356 speedster and to be fair so do I. 

[Bazza 907]

I love your Esprit too.

My wife also wants a 356 Speedster - One day I'll buy a Chesil

[430CUP]

10 minutes ago, The Pits said:

 

Knocking Lotus has become a recognised sport over there, something MrD  appears to enjoy in his spare time also.

 

I knock Porsche just as much, you just don't go to the Porker sites :-)  as I say I give an honest review, some thing you seem to have lost how to do :-(

I get knocked more than any car brand  on PH, just not afraid to say it how it is.

I still await the 5 things you dislike about your car, I doubt it will ever happen mind you.

[Dan E]

Barrie keep looking at Chesils, she even knows the spec she wants, I might even build it once retired. Right better let the thread get back to what it was. 

Happy  interlude over, please resume the "not" normal service. 

[pickle]

35 minutes ago, 430CUP said:

I still await the 5 things you dislike about your car, I doubt it will ever happen mind you.

Sorry, I don't quite understand why you expect another member to jump through hoops for you. 

Back off topic - my wife also wants a 356 speedster.

[Dan E]

New thread required " who's wife want a 356" 

[Bibs]

55 minutes ago, 430CUP said:

Knocking Lotus has become a recognised sport over there, something MrD  appears to enjoy in his spare time also.

A quick bit of research shows that you are "Mr D"/"MrDemon", infamous around the internet for slagging off Lotus whenever possible, and indeed Porsche. Your reputation sadly precedes you mate. 

While you've broken no rules on TLF yet, I'd imagine it's only a matter of time based on your past. Please be aware that myself and the mod team will be keeping a very close eye on your posts.

[pickle]

9 minutes ago, Dan E said:

New thread required " who's wife want a 356" 

Yeah, but what you've got to realise is that they are rubbish straight out of the box ?

(car, not the wife)

[Dan E]

yeah but they look really cool. That's my wife and the 356! 

She is sitting next to me and wondering why I am am laughing 

[430CUP]

1 hour ago, pickle said:

Sorry, I don't quite understand why you expect another member to jump through hoops for you. 

Back off topic - my wife also wants a 356 speedster.

because he has not posted anything worth talking about but has posted a lot, I have no idea why he kicks up such a fuss about nothing.