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Exige V6 vs Cayman GT4


LF1

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Jonny you have certainly never offended. Strangely when I first got my GT4, it was the first one around for many months, a very charming meek and mild chap came to have a ride in it at Silverstone, and later I learned that it was the infamous Mr.D ! Web personas are very different to the reality, this could be why I've made numerous attempts to meet the illusive 'Pits" ?

On an honest and positive note, I know Goodwood pretty well, for years before it was rebuilt it was the place for track driving enthusiasts , your time in the Exige V6 is really impressive, is there a video of it and do you have any comments on special techniques to achieve it ? 

 

 

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I am just open Tim, yes a quite person with strangers , but I would say every thing I have said on forums to people face's I try and keep personal comments out of it.
I just say things how they are and not scared to say stuff about my own cars, it helps people overall in the end , on here though it seems a bit "Lotus or nothing" I cannot see how people can be anti Porsche.

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4 minutes ago, 430CUP said:

 I cannot see how people can be anti Porsche.

I'd start by tarring Porsche and VW group with the same fraudulent and cheating contempt they have had for the environment and our children's lungs. Absolutely disgraceful and disgusting. They should be fined a huge huge sum of money. The tax that has been effectively evaded by this action is eye watering

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Only here once

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The question posed wasn't about the drive though.

Im afraid even if I was given a new German car - I'd frankly dump the thing in a crusher - the whole business with cheating emmisions transcends everything else for me

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13 hours ago, Dan E said:

Got to be honest mate, I have known The Pits on here for a good few years and met him at the last festival. He so doesn't need me to do this but...........He is an upstanding and respected member here. You I notice have only been on here a month. I never get involved in this stuff but we had another going on about the essence of Esprits a while ago can't remember his name. 

Let's just get back to Lotus, I had all this nonsense on the Merc forum so left. 

don't read GT4 threads then ;-) it's a simple solution

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Thanks @Mark030358 for sharing your pain points I thought I was going to be the only one!

Its refreshing to see people be genuinely open about these points especially given the higher price points of the new range. If Lotus are going to increase prices and the jump to be so severe, the materials, quality, and service need to equally step up!

That’s my biggest problem with Lotus, you can't charge and provide the same 'good old' service it has to step up! For sure they've got a good die hard fan base, a number of which forgive the pains and challenges, and seem to pride themselves in wearing the badge of honour of being Lotus through and through... and thats fine, but for the Lotus brand to grow they do need to attract a younger fan base and a new demographic of customer of which will most likely not actually care much about tradition but more about what the car gives them in return for their hard cash. If its not value for money then the strategy will not last long.

To balance out the argument a little more I thought long and hard last night about what I didn't like about my GT3!

- Geo, again can be sorted, but I noted it on my V6 'frustrations' so its only fair I list for the GT3 as well.

- Dealer. This one needs explaining, the service in the dealership is usually good, the problem I have is the games Porsche and dealers play on allocation of new cars. Its all fixed and its the one thing that made me tell them where to go 2 years ago! Outside of car allocation, communications, servicing, all are good. Before anyone jumps on the cost, yes it can be a little costly but servicing is every 2 years vs every year. You can negotiate with the dealer and get the cost down you just have to shop around and prove that they need to sharpen their pencil. The cost of V6 servicing I don't believe is too far away from the servicing TCO with a GT3 in my opinion. That said because of the laughable quote I got back from my local dealer I’m going to HPE Auto going forward for my Lotus.

- Clutch. Again needs explaining, the gear change in the GT3 is a dream, however i'm short and the Porsche has a long travel clutch pedal which was at times difficult for me to get a full depress and in turn a perfect driving position.

- Radio. Awful but that’s probably because my GT3 was spec'd with a standard radio.

- "Are you a drug dealer?" I got this quite a bit, a young chap driving around in a Guards Red GT3.  To be fair I’ve had this with BMWs (M3, and M3 CSL), Range Rover Vogue, GTR (R35), but with the Porsche I got it the most to be fair. Typically the remark is sparked from jealousy and people making unfair prejudicial assumptions.

- Values. The values of GT Porsches as you will all know have exploded, I hope the bubble will burst soon (sorry @LF1) as its arguably preventing GT cars being taken on track. That said as the new 380 range verges on the £80-95K mark you're still taking about a high level of money being thrown around a track!

- Tyres. Crap need upgrading to something stickier.

I did honestly try very hard to find more car specific frustrations but I struggled… as per my last post, the main difference for me, one is a toy, one is a car. On that note, I think folks are questioning, do I spend my hard-earned cash on a toy, or on a car that seems to strike the perfect balance between road and track. 

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www.alias23.com

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Imran, you know who 430Cup is, right? Just checking.

Can we just clear one myth up that you seem keen to perpetuate, there is tons of discussion about various issues to do with all the models on here. That's what forums do and TLF is particularly good at offering useful discussion and looking for solutions rather than just general moaning about Lotus, popular though that is online.

Page after page of issues and criticism is here for anyone that wants to read it. I have never done a review without criticism either, nor will I until someone makes the perfect car. Every single issue I've had with my car is documented on here and elsewhere. But if my seats don't wobble or stab me I'm not going to start pretending they do. So can we please give the talk of 'refreshing' criticism a break. It's all here, has always been here and always will be here. Fortunately, so will some genuine appreciation of what Lotus do well.

For some there will never be enough criticism, many people just love to moan, some have axes to grind, some have hidden agendas. But don't fall into the trap of thinking only negative views are true and of any value or the only ones worth listening to.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, The Pits said:

Imran, you know who 430Cup is, right? Just checking.

For some there will never be enough criticism, many people just love to moan, some have axes to grind, some have hidden agendas. But don't fall into the trap of thinking only negative views are true and of any value or the only ones worth listening to.

I might have missed the point ref 430Cup I'm not particularly siding with anyone just giving my opinion.

Over years of reading car forums as many of us have over time we all get to know the different personalities that exist on such forums. I agree 430Cup may exhibit a certain strong personality just like many other different personalities represented in this thread.

I don't feel I'm perpetuating any negative commentary from memory I think I've posted three times which isn't much compared to others who have posted on this thread.

I hope my views do come across as balanced hence why I thought it only right to think of the negatives when I owned my GT3. 

That said I do have an axe to grind on Lotus parts that's a fair point I'll take that and accept it.

I hope I don't have a hidden agenda, but as it's hidden maybe I can't find it...

On the other points I hope to make them so that Lotus start to listen and adapt their strategy. 

We're a community and I do feel sometimes the message isn't heard or acknowledged by Lotus.

www.alias23.com

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Imran, FYI. 

He's been banned from some forums, even seloc would you believe! No rules broken yet but we're keeping an eye on his posts as I mention in that post. 

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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Well I believe you'll find more balance here because we have positive and negative views. There are better places to go for those who enjoy negativity (sadly quite a British trait) or for those who are only able to believe negative views.

There are recent examples of the factory appearing to listen and also many up there read this forum. Not on parts sadly, we can only hope the Geely thing brings that sorry chapter to a swift end. The GT430 launch detailed some of the improvements made to the Sparco seats. There was also mention of aluminium brackets replacing steel ones to save weight and prevent rust.

GT4 vs Exige V6? Who cares really. The comparison only serves to create animosity. I'll never buy a GT4 and most GT4 buyers wouldn't touch a Lotus with a barge pole. I'd like to see some of the hype around the GT4 challenged in the mainstream media, Rennlist is more critical of Porsche than the car mags these days. I think Porsche should have been challenged over electric steering and the PDK-only policy that they have admirably reversed (without any pressure from the UK press). Where was the proper test of electric 991 GT3 steering against the hydraulic 997 GT3 system? I'd prefer that 911s didn't win twin tests between an the Evora and the Nissan GTR. And sure, the 'less is more' angle used for most Lotus tests is well past it's sell-by-date and the press have completely ignored that the Exige 380 exhaust is too loud for many tracks.

I would love to see more support in the UK for all the sports cars built here but it's not going to happen any time soon. Until then a little more humility and good grace among those who prefer to support the German economy would be much appreciated.

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12 hours ago, Bibs said:

Imran, FYI. 

He's been banned from some forums, even the playground would you believe! No rules broken yet but we're keeping an eye on his posts as I mention in that post. 

Sometimes it's not the rules that need braking!!!!

Just saying....,....

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14 hours ago, Bibs said:

Imran, FYI. 

He's been banned from some forums, even the playground would you believe! No rules broken yet but we're keeping an eye on his posts as I mention in that post. 

I am not banned from any forums, please don't post rumors, that's not nice, I can post on the s.e.l.o.c if I wish and still have a few friends on there, what I did not like on there was the Mods and the hassle I got, I left, I WAS NOT banned.

Don't make me out to be something I am not just because I have strong views on cars :-(,  I don't break rules on forums as I DON'T make posts personal, but some of you lot are already making my posts personal, it's not very fair is it ? why has this already got to this stage ?  I am open about all the cars I own, this upsets many people on one make forums, I don't care about makes, cars are just metal, I only care about driving nice cars and like meeting like mined car nutters.  Porsche have gone too VW, owners have gone soft and forums are about values :-( and the Mods on PH don't care about personal abuse.
I hope I can post my views here and any one who makes personal comments will be talked to by the mods,  I am serious about getting back into a Lotus because I  hate EPS and no new car really floats my boat atm. What I will do is give you guys an honest GT4 review and say it how it is, like I did with my GT3 and my ex Lotus cars.

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If you join a forum and have a pop at the cars which people own, of course they'll take it personally. One of our rules is 'play nice', you can find them here... 

https://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/guidelines/

While a forum is a benevolent dictatorship, I'm very open to giving people a chance. I've read your posts on seloc in the past and PH more recently and you are inflammatory and well known for it. You have no posts now on seloc so I assumed you'd been banned and they don't speak kindly of you on there. If I believe that your posts change the atmosphere on TLF (which is a very pleasant one) for the worse, you'll not be allowed to participate so 'play nice'. 

Anyway,. back on topic. 

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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On 8/8/2017 at 18:53, 430CUP said:

 I cannot see how people can be anti Porsche.

This statement is maybe one of the reasons why you are, maybe not intentionally, winding people like me up on this forum!  I have the same issue with the playground where I have been flamed down for asking why so much Porsche and Audi talk on a "LOTUS" focused forum!

If I want to find out about a Porsche, I will go to a Porsche forum or the PH Porsche pages or search for Porsche reviews. I will read the comments, the reviews etc and I will form an opinion based on that.

However, I come to TLF as I "love" what Lotus has done with its cars in the past, to learn about its heritage (sporting and road), to learn about what people think of the brand and their experiences (both with their cars and who they have met from Lotus etc.) and because i am interested in how Lotus develops, what new products it releases, how it makes the difference to its new cars, what its future holds. For me, TLF is an integral part of the ownership experience and getting the most out of my Lotus ownership experience. 

I personally could not give a flying puck about modern Porsche cars. I am, and I am happy to admit it, anti Porsche. That may be hard for some people to swallow or accept. That someone could be anti Porsche. But there you have it. I am one of those people. Bizarrely, and who knows, maybe because i am schizophrenic or just plain barmy, I am interested in Porsche's motorsport heritage and its exploits on the track. Maybe that explains why I do occasionally read up on the latest top end, focused, GT cars from the brand.

You might ask why am I anti Porsche, and I might offer some of my rationale that includes:

1. I do not like what the "brand" that is Porsche has come to stand for when it comes to road cars

2. I have met several Porsche road car owners who quite frankly, have left me cold and have been arrogant, sneery, ill-informed, and other things

3. I have had a couple of experiences on the road with normal Porsche drivers that has made me literally want to pull them from their cars and rip their heads off (see my early comments re being schizophrenic, barmy etc)

4. I have an affinity to the underdog, like a lot of my countrymen - I marvel at what a company like Lotus has done and has achieved, and what cars they have produced, on a sales revenue of about 3% if that of the mightiest sports car brand in the world. I find their ability to build desirable sweet driving cars that perform as they do admirable. This tends to make me more biased against the powerhouse manufacturers

5. I get hacked off with smug Porsche owners criticizing the build quality, or comments like, "it still feels like a kit car" when talking about Lotus. See point (4) as to why. The financial gap, the sales volume gap is so huge as to make the comparison a cheap comment.  Yes, I get you might be comparing two cars that both retail for £80k, but I can tell you now the build cost of the Lotus will be significantly higher than the mass manufactured build cost of the Porsche so of course there will be a quality/design disparity. Doh! Instead of pointing out the negative, how about marvelling in the positive of what a small UK engineering company can do.

6. I have an admiration for the engineering that goes into a Lotus - lots spoken above about the penny pinching of recent models - but then let us not forget that sheer beauty and marvel that is the current output of carbon panels and aero on Lotus's. That carbon quality rivals anything from anyone in the world, and yet people want to whinge and moan that their supercharger is no longer painted black or some cheap plastic cover has been deleted!  Go figure the real logic in that - Lotus spends money where it matters, not on purely cosmetics.  Let us not forget the huge innovation that was the all aluminium Elise chassis - was not the benchmark for Aston and the new DB9?  What about the Evora? Was not its sublime handling the benchmark used  by McLaren for the MP4, Ferrari for the 458 etc?  Again, Lotus spends the money on the right things, the things that matter

Cars, like a lot of things, evoke a lot of passion in some people - especially middle aged men! ;)  If you cannot see that coming onto a Lotus enthusiasts forum and then focusing on the negatives whilst pointing out the positives of a much larger competitor's product will invoke some kind of response, then quite frankly, you deserve your Porsche!  :harhar:

 

 

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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4 hours ago, Bibs said:

If you join a forum and have a pop at the cars which people own, of course they'll take it personally. One of our rules is 'play nice', you can find them here... 

https://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/guidelines/

While a forum is a benevolent dictatorship, I'm very open to giving people a chance. I've read your posts on the playground in the past and PH more recently and you are inflammatory and well known for it. You have no posts now on the playground so I assumed you'd been banned and they don't speak kindly of you on there. If I believe that your posts change the atmosphere on TLF (which is a very pleasant one) for the worse, you'll not be allowed to participate so 'play nice'. 

Anyway,. back on topic. 

Don't post lies about me then ! . best NOT TO assume anything than post lies !,

 

I am not having a pop about the cars it's a GT4 vs Exige thread and I was honest about my  GT4 short comings !

Now you have "Tim Hodgson "  stating "don't feed the troll"  more personal abuse which I take it will be over looked !  I doubt I'll  post much more, it's seems too bias and some people have already show their colours :-(

It seems one cannot have a real GT4 VS Exige debate after all which is a shame. 
 

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4 hours ago, C8RKH said:

lots spoken above about the penny pinching of recent models - but then let us not forget that sheer beauty and marvel that is the current output of carbon panels and aero on Lotus's. That carbon quality rivals anything from anyone in the world, and yet people want to whinge and moan that their supercharger is no longer painted black or some cheap plastic cover has been deleted!  Go figure the real logic in that - Lotus spends money where it matters, not on purely cosmetics.

@C8RKH You miss my point.

When all the glossies you get to look at indicate you are going to get something then you don't, i.e. the carbon fibre spoiler tips, (part of the aero package as you quote) incidentally which are now shiney black plastic, plus all the other bits that went missing from the earlier 380 models, it does feels like penny pinching. Actually my biggest gripe, apart from the seats, was the electrics getting soaked as there are no engine covers, so I went and bought them and the brackets afterwards.

I've bought TWO brand new Exiges in less than 3 years, the second one partly because of the  "sheer beauty and marvel that is the current output of carbon panels and aero" so I think I'm a good loyal customer and entitled to have a minor pop. Anyway, I just love Lotii to death, on my eighth I think and personally wouldn't have any other sports car.

Nothing wrong with your point of view, we are all different.

cheers

Mark

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