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Red Clutch Hose Replacement - Page 2 - Gearchange/Gearbox/Clutch - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
jkorvette

Red Clutch Hose Replacement

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All four of my Esprits, 2 Giugiaro ^ 2 Stevens, gave problems changing gear when driving in hot weather.

I changed the hose for SS on the last S4s & problem solved. :thumbup:

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There seems irrefutible evidence both ways. Maybe there are differences in materials or possible on some cars the hose is routed in contact with hot water pipes and others not, or some other difference.

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It's interesting to think that bleeding the clutch slave cylinder may have solved it originally. When I first did mine back in about 1998, there weren't the forums around like there are today to read up on. I can't even remember how I found out about the stainless replacement.. probably word of mouth!

It's made me realise though.. I probably haven't changed the fluid in there since it was fitted 19 years ago!!! I'd better add that to the list of jobs to do. :) 

I do intend changing the coolant in the next couple of months though as I have a full set of silicone hoses to fit, but that's probably only about 7 years old so will be fine no doubt ;)

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2 hours ago, jonwat said:

All four of my Esprits, 2 Giugiaro ^ 2 Stevens, gave problems changing gear when driving in hot weather.

I changed the hose for SS on the last S4s & problem solved. :thumbup:

Wait WHAT?, You've owned 2 G's and 2 S cars!!!! Why on earth did you let them go!?!?!?!?

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58 minutes ago, Vanya said:

Wait WHAT?, You've owned 2 G's and 2 S cars!!!! Why on earth did you let them go!?!?!?!?

Not all at the same time, earlier ones were sold to help finance later ones.

The last one, the Azure Blue S4s, ah well such is life. 

Pictures of all of them are on my web site. :thumbup:

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45 minutes ago, jonwat said:

Not all at the same time, earlier ones were sold to help finance later ones.

The last one, the Azure Blue S4s, ah well such is life. 

Pictures of all of them are on my web site. :thumbup:

What possesses a man to sell an S4s with Futura rims?!!!?!?!?!?! Unthinkable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Although it looks like you found your way back after your stint with Ze Germans. 

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Changed out my fuel pump and regulator today as I seem to be running out of pressure under load, didn't really need to change the regulator, but they are not expensive but do have a diaphragm that may not be too keen on modern fuel.    Anyway, thought I'd take a snap of Satan's spawn and a series 2 Landy slave cylinder .   Red gloop on cylinder is just some excess rubber grease

 

redhose.jpg

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Just to add a plus one to needing a red hose replacement.  Classic symptoms on every track day I did - typically after just 3 or 4 laps - and no amount of bleeding/checking /adjustment did any good.  Replace with a braided hose and never had a problem again.

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I had a quick through an article online  yesterday from a few years ago,  Basically a buyers guide for the esprit from specialists  ,  And one of the parts of the article was what to change on the car from standard. 

One of which was to change the plastic clutch hose for a braided one.  No mention of the red hose syndrome,  but it explained that when the pipe gets old and degrades it splits,  this can sometimes lead to brake fluid spraying onto the the brakes and can cause a fire.  

The article states that any esprits have been lost to this,  How they know i have no idea as when you look at most esprit engine fires, nothing is left,  so to be able to see if a fire was caused by fuel or brake fluid is beyond me. 

But food for thought and another mystery to add to this red pipe.............:)

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Sounds a bit fanciful to me.   Assuming not all cars spontaneously burst into flames if it splits - has anyone on here had first hand experience of a red hose splitting due to degradation (not damage)?   ts a plausible argument to change it as its old, however, I'm far more concerned about bulging original brake hoses on an Esprit, but we don't have many threads about those!   

NB Red pipes are not unique to Lotus, my TR6's used them too, they were older and the engine bay routing much hotter  (albeit a shorter run) 

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Yes see what you mean Steve,  It was just that no mention in the article about the clutch pipe when it gets hot affecting the actual gear change,  had never heard this theory before about it actually been a fire risk to the esprit, even more so when a specialist has said it, maybe the writer for the magazine had mixed  up sj or mattys words when they had been maybe going on about fuel pipes or something ?  

Not sure but i can see a little logic in it if not only to sell more braided hose kits lol  :P

 

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If cars caught fire every time brake fluid got onto brakes the roads would be lined with burned out wrecks!

The red tubing is (or was) a standard Girling product. Its likely the same stuff as the tube inside the braided replacements, Polyamide. 

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1 hour ago, Andyww said:

If cars caught fire every time brake fluid got onto brakes the roads would be lined with burned out wrecks!

The red tubing is (or was) a standard Girling product. Its likely the same stuff as the tube inside the braided replacements, Polyamide. 

I thought they are,  i see lots of  porkers and lambos and dancing donkeys having  " Thermal issues "  all over the place :P

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14 hours ago, silverfrost said:

I had a quick through an article online  yesterday from a few years ago, 

One of which was to change the plastic clutch hose for a braided one.  No mention of the red hose syndrome,  but it explained that when the pipe gets old and degrades it splits,  this can sometimes lead to brake fluid spraying onto the the brakes and can cause a fire.  

This sounds like some poor reporting to me Dan - an article cobbled together from memory which was failing, and muddling up at least two stories heard down the pub.

Many of us have replaced our red hose for braided hoses....but to solve the clutch issue when hot.

Many of us have had concerns with old fuel lines which run at pressure across the top of the engine.  Many Esprit fires have been caused by the fuel lines failing and fuel p***ing out over the hot engine.  Many of us have replaced the fuel lines with braided hoses.

So most likely the article was just plain wrong...

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+1 about the fuel lines, I know of 3 cases where these split. One of which led to a fire with the loss of the vehicle.

Apropos the red hose - I believe it's on the MX5 too, and even there the endless debate about red hose syndrome has raged. 

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So the miatas forum are full of red hose myth debates  also, that is good to hear lol :P

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I dunno how the fluid reservoir is on the Miata, but if it's a common one for the clutch and brakes, and if the car is tracked AFAIK it's not uncommon for the fluid to boil - this I suppose could affect the clutch as well...Technically we should all buy some red hose fill it with fluid and stick it in the oven then measure it at different temperatures... 

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Leave it to myth busters Vanya, i will send them an email lol,  now that i know it affects mazdas also it will appeal to a bigger audience lol :P

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With the SJ steel braided clutch line installed my grinding gears/can't get into reverse or first when hot issue has gone away! Thank you for all of your replies and support, it is appreciated.

I had to buy some fittings to adapt the SJ braided clutch hose to my slave cylinder that is threaded M12x1.0. Not sure if my slave is factory but car only has 19,850 miles. I do have some grind into second gear if shifting fast at high RPM, perhaps due to synchro wear from driving 19,850 miles with the dreaded red hose syndrome or perhaps the nature of these Renault gearboxes.

Attached are some pictures for the chap looking to do this upgrade.

My clutch worked perfectly when the car was cold. I did not bleed the red hose before replacing it with the steel braided hose, so the myth of the red hose syndrome may continue for some. If we reference PV=nRT, as temperature increases so must the volume and or pressure. If pressure increased with temperature in the clutch system I would think we would have complete travel/clutch engagement, but that was not the case. My vote is the red hose increases in volume with temperature reducing pressure and losing complete travel/clutch engagement.

How do you not drive these cars fast?:)

 

Red hose #1.JPG

Red hose #2.JPG

Red hose #3.JPG

Red hose #4.JPG

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Shift carefully from 1st to 2nd if you are getting a grinding there. That's a synchro and dog teeth problem. If ignored it will go bang and second gear will take a well deserved rest

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26 minutes ago, jkorvette said:

If we reference PV=nRT, as temperature increases so must the volume and or pressure. If pressure increased with temperature in the clutch system I would think we would have complete travel/clutch engagement, but that was not the case. My vote is the red hose increases in volume with temperature reducing pressure and losing complete

 

 

 

Any increase in volume would immediately be topped up by the master cylinder reservoir though.

My guess is some cars have the hose routed differently to others and on some it heats up and becomes slightly soft so that when the clutch pedal is depressed the pressure causes the hose to stretch slightly, then it contracts back again when the pedal is released. If it stretched permanently it would not cause any problem as it would be topped up as soon as the pedal is released.

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23 minutes ago, jkorvette said:

That's what I suspected. Are synchros/parts available for these gearboxes?

Yes mate - sj Sportscars has everything you need

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Coincidentally, I visited Rapid Mechanical Services Ltd off the A12 near Romford on Tuesday to take a look at my X180 and it was suggested changing the clutch cable if the original style red cable was fitted - I'm reading above SJS or PNM both work well with a bias to SJs?

They kindly described my recent buy as 'someone has spent a lot of money on it' with the suspension, brakes etc. and that my exhaust cam cover was the wrong way round (I really must correct this) but that my accelerator cable was correctly attached from the right side.

I've now booked it in for closer scrutiny/checks and an MOT start of Oct when I've asked them to fit the PNM gear selector kit I bought recently, firm up the adjustable suspension and realign the tracking. I'm repairing some minor damage to my under tray and will get this done in time for them to also re-attach properly. I've also noticed a tiny water leak on the garage floor that may be a weep from the newly fitted water pump, or, hopefully just be a jubilee clip in need of a turn.

I'm sure that there will be plenty of other things for me to work on going forward, but for the moment, I'm keen to use my nearest Lotus independent and recommend Andy and Dave at Rapid - I'll let you know how it goes.

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