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Delco-Moraine ABS Deletion - Page 10 - Suspension/Brakes/Wheels/Hubs/Steering/Geo - The Lotus Forums #ForTheOwners Jump to content


Delco-Moraine ABS Deletion


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9 hours ago, Sparky said:

@AndersL - do you want me to change them?

@swindon_alan- did you just blow me a kiss?

@Sparky - No, let it be I'll fix it myself this winter. At best, maybe it annoys someone when you meet others Esprit owners at your meeting 😁

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7 hours ago, Erikl said:

Some info to add - hopefully this has not been repeated elsewhere - if it has - my apologies.

I was curious about replacing my ABS and power brakes with a simple old school non power brake master cylinder.  So I called the Willwood tech line.

They said - No problem, you need to adjust the pedal ratio to about 6:1 and tell us the diameter of the pistons in the calipers and we can size a master cylinder.

They also said Lotus by Claudius https://www.lotuspbc.com/home.html

Had worked with them to develop a big brake system and might have a non power assist master cylinder all worked out.

So I called them because the website is light on specifics.  They do sell a NON ABS retrofit system (power brakes) that includes Master Cylinder and everything you need to ditch the ABS.  The cost......$2500. Way out of my budget.

Anyway, I am on the list for one of the LHD brackets from this thread and looking forward to sourcing the parts to put together a system.  

I am curious though.  If anybody knows the piston diameters on a 94 Esprit (non Brembo), and the measurements on the brake pedal.  A master cylinder is only ~ $300 I might try an old school non power assist set up and see how it works.  I figure I could always switch it back out.

I enjoyed the brake feel on my old non power assist cars - I am sure it would take a bit of getting used to.  

 

 

Good luck with non power assisted brakes, I would be interested to learn how you get on with them, I certainly couldn’t. Please note I don’t supply brackets, only complete kits..

Margate Exotics.

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23 hours ago, Chillidoggy said:
I have a few RHD or LHD brake conversion kits unallocated which will be available early in November. Please e-mail me at espritservbrake01@yahoo.com if you're interested.

Sorry, typo. It should be espritservobrake01@yahoo.com

Margate Exotics.

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  • 2 months later...
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3 hours ago, doct93 said:

Just started to get pump running too often plus flashing abs light on the GT3......

Accumulator changed, have a pressure switch to try, but not hopeful.

Have I missed the boat for this excellent sounding conversion?

Tim

 

Tim, please e-mail as in my previous post, and I will respond.

Margate Exotics.

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The current batch of brake kits has now been either allocated, or fulfilled. Vacuum pump supply is still an issue, however I am working on it. I am now accepting expressions of interest for another batch, email me at the address above for details. Happy New Year to everyone!

Margate Exotics.

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It appears that the vacuum pump supply blockage has now been resolved, albeit the UP5X pumps are NLA for the foreseeable future, and I will be using the UP32 instead. I actually ended up removing a new pump from my own car to complete a kit, not something I was overly happy about, but it helped a desperate Esprit owner. Thankfully, seven new vacuum pumps landed on my doorstep yesterday which means I can now start putting the remaining kits together and getting them dispatched.  

I already have 4 out of the next 10 kits allocated, if you're interested in making your Esprit stop like it should, then mail at espritservobrake01@yahoo.com

Happy New Year to everyone!

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Margate Exotics.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
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Yesterday I drove an ABS-equiped Esprit for the first time. Now I understand why people want to change it! It certainly does feel different to my early SE. A lot less reassuring, even when driven gently (it is a customers car after all).

In this case, the main problem seems to be the accumulator. The pump runs on every push of the pedal and the feedback doesn't feel consistent. So I'll start by replacing the accumulator. If the owner still isn't happy, a conversion will be the way to go.

Greetz,

Filip

I have made many mistakes in my life. Buying a multiple Lotus is not one of them.

 

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Some news - I am expecting to be able to supply brake kits from approximately 8 - 10 weeks time.

Interested parties, please mail me at espritservobrake01@yahoo.com if you haven't already done so, and I'll put you on the list.

Margate Exotics.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Partual solution for your Delco Moraine problem(see lower)

Hi all, I'm still looking for a broken (most are 1f609.png😉 ) Delco Moraine mastercylinder (ABSIII) as found in SE Highwing, S4, S4S, and GT3. (and/or pumpassembly)
An estimation is that approx 70% of the systems is not working correctly (poll Norwegian Lotus Forum), so I'm adressing myself especially to people who placed already an alternatif and wants to get rid of the bad memories... 
(I'm sure most of you know the phenomena: the car brakes bad, the pedal pushes back while braking, and when you depressurize, and open the cover, you will see an airy mixture of oil and air (photo 3)
I do not want to take out mine, since my car would then be completely out of service and i have this opinion even stronger now, since a first attempt went wrong on a 2nd unit I was able to buy 1f641.png😞
Yes, i also still suspect the pump, so I'm interested in both parts.  I revised my pump: the shaft was corroded, and under no load (=low pressure, high flow), I saw small bubbles of air coming out (transparent hose). However after fixing that, the Delco Moraine problem persisted. My idea is that the air pumped in the master damages metal parts and seals since parts are moving without oil. It is impressive how much air is collected in the system!!

Since I'm working already quite a time on the problem here is what happens while you are braking (Sorry push the brake pedal 🙂 )

Lot's of air get in the system, before and after the spool valve in the mastercylinder. When you push the pedal, the spool valve opens and oil (in the beginning just air!) starts flowing (for seconds!) to the rears and boost system. Only after seconds (while you are panicking because the car is not braking as you expect) , the system gets pressurized and finally your brakes and boost are coming up  (the pedal pushes your foot back). Because you are nearly in a complete panic (the car in front is approaching really fast now), you push the brake pedal to your limits. But since the boost and the rears are coming up, and start doing their job, all wheels block. The ABS intervenes, and, in miliseconds, let out all the precious oil and builded up pressure : the compressed air expands very fast and helps pushing away the oil. Then everything starts over: again air flows through the spool valve..., it takes again seconds before you build up pressure, and again the ABS let out all the oil. You have no rear brakes... Positive point: while this is happening, you let out the air, and you are actually bleeding the brakesystem! (ok, not the right moment to do so...) But next time (if you are not crashed the first time), when you brake, your brakes may actually work! And if not, brake on a quite place up to intervention of the abs, and again, you let the air out of the system. 

So, to bleed the system before you go driving, do following: depressurize the system (push the brake pedal 40 times, contact off). Have a look into the brakesystem reservoir: when this is an airy mixture (photo), wait 15 minutes - you do not want this back in your brake lines.

image.png.0c80046690d24a41bcd202534763142d.png

Close the reservoir again(, or brake fluid will be spilled around). Switch on contact, and the pump will pump for ca 30 sec. Switch off contact, push brake pedal, swicht contact on, and you will feel the brake pedal going down, switch contact off: you are bleeding the abs recirculation valves. Do this 3 times, and wait until the foam (see photo) in the reservoir has dissappaired. Switch on contact, let the pump pump, and do this again 3 times.

Your car should brake better... Better but not really good, because doing so, you do not bleed the brake lines, so there is still air in, but maybe the brakes will start after 1 second... You can bleed the rear brake lines, and again your car will brake better. While doing this, keep an eye on the level in the reservoir. When it runs dry, take a day off to bleed the system properly.

I'm working on the problem, without succes up to now,  and whether i will be succesfull is still a doubt.  I broke another precious master cylinder that I purchased: the parts are that fine and sensitive, the work cannot be done on a workbench, you do it at a desk, with magnifier and good lighting. It is a very complicated system. I'm in electronics (I studied car mechanics after that), I have very fine fingers, but while opening the master cylinder, they seemed like the hands of a giant. I damaged the pushrod, and after disassembly of a part, maybe a circlips? was lost in the system (i did not notice). Anyway, something blocks the moving parts from further analysis, but I do not see the blocking "thing", it is too deep in. So that is why i'm looking for another system...or 2 :-) (serious)

Some people say the car brakes much better when the abs is disabled. That is true! Because after building up the pressure (after the seconds of panic), the abs will not intervene, and the system stays pressurised. It is tire consuming in the beginning ( blocking wheels, blue smoke,...), but you learn how to handle and prevent that.

As far as I can say, replacing the system by a system from Barry or Ian or..., is the best solution. I searched the world for somebody who could repair the system, but did not found. Both Lotus and Delco cannot or not able to give any explication "When the systems were sold, we had not such a problem"... 

 

Good luck and have fun with the Esprit!!! Let me know when you want to sell your system, see also my add in the buy/sell section (brakes)

 

Edited by Karl lambrechts
corrections
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