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Delco-Moraine ABS Deletion - Page 5 - Suspension/Brakes/Wheels/Hubs/Steering/Geo - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
swindon_alan

Delco-Moraine ABS Deletion

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Well now that I am having some strangeness with my 94 s4 ABS system, (See Here ) I am researching changing the system out for a non-ABS setup if I find I will need to repair anything expensive.

So to recap the info here, the only caveats are that a new mounting bracket will need to be made to mount another servo/booster to the bulkhead and a custom rod from the brake pedal to the servo/booster may need to be made. Otherwise as G_Reaper did, fitting a new servo/booster, master cylinder, vacuum reservoir, pump and proportioning valve is all that is needed? I am guessing the pump (electric), reservoir and proportioning valve are pretty universal and that the catch is finding the rest that fit with the least hassle? Being that G_Reaper's install seems pretty straight forward, why not just use the same parts he used?

 


John
94 S4

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I would use the same parts at G-Reaper. They are the most similar to my 89SE original Lotus brake system, which is perfectly fine, and has great feel, especially with my upgraded calipers and rotors.


Travis

Vulcan Grey 89SE

My Lotus Photo and Projects Album

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Techspy - my two-pennyworth if you decide to convert the system:- Whatever parts you use, make sure that the push rod angle isn’t excessive, and is as straight a push as possible into the servo. It may be necessary to drill a new hole in the brake pedal to achieve the desired pedal ratio, and described arc. Measuring and drawing will help in this.


Margate Exotics.

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After reading this I am realizing that I posted in the wrong thread before.

I have to say that I think the factory system on my 90 SE would do just fine as long as it has a good vacuum source. Ive never driven anything 80s or newer that I couldnt lock up if I wanted. The reason I am saying this. ( Dont shoot me I is a just asking.) What is the problem with the master and servo in the cars???

I also looked around the gargler for 30 minutes before posting this and I would just rip that SOB ABS unit out and all the wires and any ABS lighting wiring and the bulb with it. Shove a T fitting with some nice alloy brake lines and call it a day. Unless I am missing something???   MR2 gerlig OE stuff and Japanese truck parts seem a bit far.

My vacuum isn't great and mine still stops good.

The reason I want to go full manual or am pondering on it very very hard is because of the vacuum. I just don't think the pedal will be that much stiffer  if its done right with the right throw. I don't know where I read of someone doing this before in place of the delco unit. They used a wilwood master.

Edited by Roberto Esprit

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@Roberto Esprit You sure you have ABS on your 90SE?

If you have ABS, then the vacuum isn't connected to the brakes. The vacuum is only used for the EBPV, the Throttle Jack, and the cabin heater flaps. There is no vacuum booster in the Esprit with ABS (except the Kelsey Hayes system in the later GT3 and V8's).

The Delco Powermaster III on the ABS Esprits (usually late 90 & '91+) is run off of a pressure pump and accumulator. 

If you don't have ABS (most 90SE's don't...) then you do have a vacuum boosted master cylinder. And replacing the pump and checking the system for leaks is a good start. But even then the stock brakes and available pads are not really that aggressive. The stock master cylinder and booster work great with bigger brakes and more aggressive pads, so it's not the booster or the master cylinder that is inadequate.

Post a photo of your brake system under the front bonnet.

 


Travis

Vulcan Grey 89SE

My Lotus Photo and Projects Album

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I have boosted brakes. I was saying I dont really have much issue with their power. But it could be my driving style.  I have never outmatched brakes on anything newer than 70s stuff even on the track.

My annoyance is with the Vacuum unit. It all becomes relative when you add to the fact that I am converting a lot of stuff to electronic creating a huge load for the altrenator. So I dont want to add a seperate electronic device just for the brake servo. the only Vac item I will have when I am done with the rest of the car is the turbo control circuits Which then if I really need a pump at least it will be at the back of the car not connected to the front.

Before I made some phone calls and sent some emails I was considering a system like the delco unit... Thank god I saw this post. The thing that I didnt know until today is that the SE booster and master is rare. I would be willing to give up mine for lotus parts as I have already made my decision to shelf the part in favor for two seperate master cylinders on a pedal box for these reasons:

-I am tall and the pedals sit two inches out of my comfort zone.

- I am now aware that I have used non power brakes many times and didnt even know it.

- I wont need to add any wiring or load on the electrical system.

- I am being given 6 piston pots.  ( I know this piston can handle em.)

- I may have a bad master cylinder for the clutch so I might as well do the whole thing now.

I will post up how it feels as I see vulcangrey was on the post of the first guy who did this to his esprit and the guy never said how it worked out... He just said it took getting used to and that it was different.  Dont hold your breath though as I am modding/ restoring a lot of other small stuff right now.

I feel like my previous post was a waste of everyones time due to the fact that I answered most of my own questions. Sorry for that. But please PM me as I wont be on for a while if there is an owner of an aftermarket non power setup that would be willing to share how it feels pedal ratio ECT.

 

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The vacuum pump weight is negligible and it’s one tiny pipe.

 


Only here once

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On my way; break out the gin.


British Ambassador to Florida, New York, Denmark and Newfoundland.  And Sweden.

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They looks the mutts nuts 👍


Only here once

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Well done Ian, looks good. Now if you can knock me up a 40ft cruiser that's cheap to run and folds up to go in the garage please. Oh and 40 knots plus capability.

 

Trevor.

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I'll get around to it at some point.

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Very disappointed.  Drove all the way to Margate to find that Ian was at the post office with Bazza's package and Shan had sold the remainder to a horde of gentleman callers. Hey ho, there's always the 2019 production run...

IMAG0487.jpg

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British Ambassador to Florida, New York, Denmark and Newfoundland.  And Sweden.

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:D

I for one have something probably to address in my stock system as it's pumping almost every time I depress the brake pedal. I may need some parts in a near future! (I may do the conversion later but I don't like to do that sort of things based on the bad experience of a malfunctioning stock system (I mean, worse than it's supposed to be)

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You took pictures of Ian's wood? :blink:

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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I can’t wait to open the box 👍

wont be long and a thread from Farmyard exotics will be appearing

2 hours ago, Giniw said:

:D

I for one have something probably to address in my stock system as it's pumping almost every time I depress the brake pedal. I may need some parts in a near future! (I may do the conversion later but I don't like to do that sort of things based on the bad experience of a malfunctioning stock system (I mean, worse than it's supposed to be)

Sounds like your pumps either weak, pressure switch knackered or the accumulator on its way out. Simple to fix really.

 

 

 

just put yourself down for a conversion kit 


Only here once

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3 hours ago, Giniw said:

:D

I for one have something probably to address in my stock system as it's pumping almost every time I depress the brake pedal. I may need some parts in a near future! (I may do the conversion later but I don't like to do that sort of things based on the bad experience of a malfunctioning stock system (I mean, worse than it's supposed to be)

Before you start buying parts, pump it empty (40 presses), leave it for a few minutes to dissipate, then turn the key to pump it all back up again.  See if you get back to 5 or 6 presses. 

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Interesting, thanks a lot! :) (I haven't started on that subject at all so far — as we all know, brakes are not critical of course :D )

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Hi Chaps, glad to hear the parts are getting some interest. Whoever fits the first ones, i'd really appreciate some feedback -i'm always cautious with first batch runs, so i'm all ears if i need to tweak or remake something. 

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Mine fitted bang on and perfect @Miguel.

 


Only here once

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