Evora GT430

[TBD]

11 hours ago, blindside said:

P.S. I'm a little sceptical about the just 60 cars build limit. It will be interesting to see how many eventually do get made if demand significantly exceeds supply.

If there is one thing JMG has taught us in the last years it is that one special edition follows another. Lotus will probably not make more than the 60 cars they promissed, possibly a few fer the US. The aero package Lotus designed for the 430GT most certainly wasn't cheap to develop, obviously quite some time on the aerodynamics simulators and in the wind tunnel. It most certainly will be reused.

But, the good news is that this most certainly won't be the end of the line of special additions. So, we can probably expect:

• The 430 Cup
• A wide body derivant
• A Targa (both as a base model and a GT and....)

Hell, where the Porsche lineup now has something like 500 911 variants, why shouldn't Lotus do one special edition after another. They certainly seem to sell well.

 

Pricewise: hey the car is (almost) sold out on the day it is announced, so any marketing expert will tell you it was too cheap! No, Lotus has to go this way, we all wan a profitable company (because all others will cease to exist).

[Lukeyboy2k]

18 minutes ago, DaveC72 said:

@anthonyyule that was very eloquently put.  Thank you.  And massive congratulations on your purchase - I am massively jealous

I really don't get the snobbery around the "Camry" engine.  Having rocked through just over 40K miles in 29 months I have to say I would much rather have the Toyota lump behind me than any number of  exotic power-plants.  The engineering to get this kind of performance from this power-plant within tolerances is mighty impressive.

The obsession with dick waving bhp numbers is something I'll leave to the pub-bores.  Surely Lotus should be commended for staying true to it's principles, the benefits of which can be read in a pretty decent article here.

It may, and probably does, sound a bit rich coming from someone who will (unless my circumstances change dramatically) only ever be purchasing a second hand Lotus, but I think Lotus really needs to move up in the value proposition.  I'm not saying abandon it's core market, but Lotus does suffer from a kind of inverse snobbery around pricing outside of the community.  The kind of customer that Lotus should be adding to it's target audience will often dismiss a car as being "too cheap".  Go figure.

As a community we  all  mostly want a mid-engined, Vsomething, 900Kg, eleventy hundred bhp sports car for about £30K.  If Lotus was building the volume of cars to make that even a remote possibility then I guess it just wouldn't be Lotus anymore.  I'm not saying that Lotus shouldn't have a plan to become a higher volume car maker - but I wouldn't want to see it become a machine chucking out soul-less clones by the thousand.

Back on topic, +1 request for some photo-shopped images - ideally in FYEO trim! 

 

Couldn't agree more. I think it's testament to the engine that it can be used over various platforms. Ok, it isn't a V8/V10/V12 and it never will be, but it gives more than adequate performance for the vast majority of cars and driver abilities. I applaud Lotus for selecting such an engine so it can concentrate on the other areas and build fantastic cars. I've done approximately 25k in my Evora in 2 years (2GR-FE), and nearly 15k in 6 months in my Lexus GS450H (2GR-FSE), all of them without issue and in comfort. The engine has a good balance of performance/reliability and... economy!  I'm definitely a Toyota/Lexus/Lotus fanboi, I've had various highly tuned Supras, MR2s, along with Ravs, Landcruisers, Lexus RX, GS and they've all had fantastic quality and reliability. The use of a Toyota engine was a deciding factor in me getting an Evora in the first place.

I won't be in the market for  £100k+ car for at least 5-10 years, but if I was, the new Evora would be right at the top of my list, even if it will probably be surpassed by something else within a few years.  

[LF1]

10 hours ago, Bibs said:

It's $1bn to build your own engine from blank sheet to showroom nowadays, I'm not sure Lotus are quite there yet and I, for one, forgive them for that! 

Not denying this. But I think the point is that the £30k suggestion has to recover that £1b, which seems marginal if you considet it in these terms. 

[Cypriot]

3 hours ago, anthonyyule said:

I'm really really REALLY struggling with these price comparisons.

540c - no options at all - £124k

Audi R8 - no options at all - £123.5k

Lotus Evora GT430 - no options at all - £112.5k

so can we just stop please?

i keep hearing the "it's almost double the price of a GT4"....... no no it's not. Even if you could buy one, nobody that really knew the car or the brand would have bought one with NO options as it's resale would be terrible, not to mention it would have none of the cool Porsche toys that they entice you in with during their marketing.A friend of mine has a GT4..... spent weeks agonising over the spec - and sought counsel online with many other Porsche users as to what was an adequate spec. His final bill - despite him going for the only "free" colour choice..... £120k.

so again - let's just stop and have a little think to ourselves. Who, who is going to buy a Macca or a Porsche or a Audi - and not spend anything at all on options. Who is going spend £100k plus but not get the little niceties that makes it just a little bit more special? And with that sort of brand also comes some serious servicing costs as many have already mentioned.

ive not mentioned track focussed. I don't think that's the real question here. My 430 will never get tracked - but adored for the perfect blend of capability, looks and rarity - but with the knowledge that what lies beneath would make it pretty much the fastest point to point thing around me at the time. For the pric, with all the carbon and additional engineering that has gone into this - in today's f@cked up global economy - I think is a bloody well good job done by Lotus.

I appreciate your response, and I congratulate you on your purchase, no doubt its a fantastic car! I was merely stating my position.  Also, I am not comparing this to a gt4, as I think the gt4 is no where near the GT430. However, if a friend of yours specced his to 120k, then he clearly went nuts on the options, as you could easily spec a nice gt4 for around the 75-80k.  I know, cos I specced one (but didnt get).  So using your 120k figure for a gt4 comparison is not realistic. Either way, I won't say anything further on this as we have different views on this, which is great, and the whole point of forums! I would still absolutely love to see, touch and drive a GT430 (I doubt I ever will as these things will be rarer than a ferrari f50!!) Awesome purchase, and an absolute weapon!!

[The Pits]

Yes there are cars at £120k that might be considered more prestigious, more powerful, faster in a straight line, better built and so on, but genuinely better to drive? Not so sure. I know the V12 Vantage isn't, had one of those. Audi R8 V10 makes a great noise but has gotten more ugly with every new version and just isn't as communicative. Fastest F Type Jags are auto only, good cars but not nearly as involving or exciting. I'm not convinced a 540 Mac is actually better to drive, quicker no question but paddleshift only which is a big drawback for me. Take away the extra go and is the basic car really any more enjoyable to steer? Most would consider it much cooler I guess and more modern for what that's worth. I will admit the McLaren brand has a lot of appeal on its own. But criticisms of Lotus cars tends to fall back on minor switchgear. I guess most expect more luxury and high quality feel inside for a high price but for those who only care how a car drives they still deliver. The day they drive like everything else is the day they're really in trouble. Electric steering, paddleshift, fancy interior tech and endless driver modes are all good in the showroom but aren't worth much when you're really driving.

I am basing all of this on the assumption that the GT430 will be absolutely inspiring to drive. That's based on the Sport 410 being very special to drive as is. The steering, gearshift, pedals, brakes, suspension, seats and driving position are of such a high standard now I don't think anyone out there is doing the basics (and for me, the most important things) any better. Cayman GT4 gets a lot right but electric steering really isn't on the same page as the Evora's, still the best power steering system on sale. I absolutely agree the switchgear should be better, wherever there's room for improvement Lotus need to be addressing that. But the perfect interior doesn't exist for me in any car. I prefer the heavier, higher quality S1 Evora interior for a start but every car is a compromise, 288 GTO is my favourite interior of all time but I cruelly can't fit into it!

[Bibs]

 

[LF1]

@Bibs enough... please stop...

[Bibs]

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

20 minutes ago, The Pits said:

 I'm not convinced a 540 Mac is actually better to drive, quicker no question but paddleshift only which is a big drawback for me. Take away the extra go and is the basic car really any more enjoyable to steer? Most would consider it much cooler I guess and more modern for what that's worth. I will admit the McLaren brand has a lot of appeal on its own.

I hate to say this BUT... it's a big step forward in all departments from my old Evora, feels tighter, the power just keeps coming and the whole car feels more like it's come from an F1 factory... which it has! I like the dual clutch shift too, it's quick, precise, ( a word which applies to the car as a whole ) although I was a fan of IPS too. 

Their big advantage over Lotus is being able to spread the R&D costs, same engine, gearbox, clutch, carbon tub from the 12C onwards made the 540/570 possible at that price... not to mention dropping the active ride suspension and hiring a bunch of ex Lotus bods to sort the more conventional setup on the Sports Series. Throw in bucket loads of tech like brake steer, plus lots of creature comfort and it's an amazing car. On the down side they could learn a lot from B&C about aftersales but they're relatively new to the game. 

That said I really hope Geely give Lotus the funding they deserve, I love the new car, gives me hope for the future and an eventual return to the fold! 

 

 

[The Pits]

Paddleshift is a big step backwards for me for recreational driving. I would feel the same way about an auto-only new Esprit. The brilliance of the Sports Series is that McLaren have managed to dial in some Lotus-like steering feel and chassis response into the package, something I believe the MP412C lacked. But cars like the Evora Sport 410 are still setting the benchmarks in the areas Lotus do so well. But until a new Esprit shows up the McLaren 540/570 might be about as close as we'll get to what it could have been.

[Corsu]

22 minutes ago, The Pits said:

Paddleshift is a big step backwards for me for recreational driving. The brilliance of the Sports Series is that McLaren have managed to dial in some Lotus-like steering feel and chassis response into the package, something I believe the MP412C lacked. But cars like the Evora Sport 410 are still setting the benchmarks in the areas Lotus do so well.

I beleive the same thing. I drove a Mclaren 540C and 570S. These cars are awesome but after that, I drove the Lotus Evora 400. The Lotus is more enjoyable even it's slower. Paddleshift is a big step backwards for recreational driving.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Corsu

[Vanya]

Wow, the 430 in red with black roof (as seen in the press release further down) is truly beautiful. I always thought the 400 was a major step back in elegance compared to the S1 Evora but this is a return to form. Fabulous. 

[kokostrollet]

@The Pits, knowing you were considering switching to an Evora Sport 410 from the Exige Cup and some details about what kind of cars you like from writing here and from your videos, how do you feel this new GT430 stacks up in comparison? From a value perspective, I think the GT430 looks very attractive and would be a better (although obviously more expensive) buy than the Sport 410.

[rallyesax]

@CorsuI never drove a Macca (540 or 570) yet. My expectations were higher than an Evora 400. I would be curious to see looking at your comments

Not talking about power of course, but steering/handling aspects.

This GT430 is quite a masterpiece and I understand it's pricetag in a way... Still a lot of money tho. If I could afford one, agree that the benchmark side would be quite difficult.

[Bibs]

[Stubox]

I've driven the 570s extensively and my 410 would'nt see which way it had gone. I loved the paddleshift and it allowed me to concentrate more on burying the car into the corner and firing it out the other side.  I can't afford a 570s and to me the 410 gets closest to the Mc, and I do love my 410. Which is handy

Only surprise on the 570 were the brakes which needed more work than I was expecting, the engine note ( all the times I've driven it they were sports exhausts and were a bit ...meh... and its still are arse to get in and out of... 

Await Trevor to further comment on 540c vs Cup/410 etc....

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I think the GT430 pricing looks absolutely reasonable if you look at the rest of the range. For example Silverstone have a manual 400 in stock at 84K and a manual 410 in stock at 92K. As far as I can tell from the blurb, neither has the Titanium exhaust, so you can add 5 grand to those prices straightaway.

Chuck in all the carbon, trick suspension, extra power, gearbox oil cooler, special bodywork and all the other goodies and I think the GT430 looks cheap! Unlikely to depreciate much either.

[Corsu]

@rallyesax  The Steering of the Maca 540/570s is the best I've ever driven. It's a joy. The handling is fantastic and the engine a beast. The car feels much more light than the Huracan LP610-4 that I know very well too. But, for me, the maca are less engaging than the Lotus. OK, the padleshift are great but you loose something. I don't know how explain it but driving the Lotus is like driving an old Ferrari with a better handling. It's sure a lot of less faster but today in France (I don't know England) you can not drive a Mclaren as it must be done, too dangerous .... To enjoy the Mclaren, you have to drive very fast, the rest of the time, it's like driving a Polo, not the case with the Evora. No doubt, the Mclaren is a better car but it's depend on what you are looking for.

[AK70]

Lotus-tuned, Öhlins® TTX aluminium two-way adjustable dampers... yum!

With the much better inital breakaway torque, this will be the best handling Evora ever.. ;-)

[Snoopy1969]

@LotusLeftLotusRight well, in Germany the pricing brings the 430 in the same range as Porsche Gt3, AMG GT R (585 bhp, v e r y competitive Nürburgring time...) ........so might be hard to attract People that are not Lotus fascinated yet - I think the 430 is very impressive but esp. with the actual supply of spare parts etc it will be hard to win new buyers from that category. Porsche has also recogn that there is a market for Manuals......

[Stubox]

Just now, AK70 said:

Lotus-tuned, Öhlins® TTX aluminium two-way adjustable dampers... yum!

With the much better inital breakaway torque, this will be the best handling Evora ever.. ;-)

Wonder if they'll be available for the peasants ?

 

[The Pits]

29 minutes ago, kokostrollet said:

@The Pits, knowing you were considering switching to an Evora Sport 410 from the Exige Cup and some details about what kind of cars you like from writing here and from your videos, how do you feel this new GT430 stacks up in comparison? From a value perspective, I think the GT430 looks very attractive and would be a better (although obviously more expensive) buy than the Sport 410.

Frantically pondering this very question. If it's really true that there are only 6 RHD 430's planned then I guess residuals will be stronger despite the wince-inducing price. Still a hard concept to grasp when much of what I like about the GT430 is available for a lot less in the Sport 410. If you look at it in terms of likely depreciation perhaps the 430 is the way to go but it all depends on what Lotus do next. We all believe a roadster is coming. If the GT430 sells out quickly then we can expect 60 GT430 Spyders next year? Maybe a GT450 or 460 will be the Evora's swansong? GT430 residuals will be very strong initially but no guarantees that they will remain the case. What happens to Evora GTE values will be interesting now and possibly a good indication of what happens to the GT430 down the line.

Sorry the answer is all financial but the figures are very substantial for me and I do my best to avoid buying new cars altogether. Lotus do a good job of making that plan hard to stick to!

Driving wise we can only guess but grip is going to be formidable. Straight line performance will be a bit more perky, 325lbs/ft is the most significant number there. Should be pulling with more conviction where the 410 is taking a breath before the big charge for the redline. Steering isn't going to disappoint. Damping should be exceptional though it might be a touch too firm for some of the worst UK roads. Would be fascinating to explore the mysterious world of downforce, that was a big part of the appeal of the Cup 380.

Sport 410 still appeals greatly. You could get 430bhp from one very easily, although not a good idea before the warranty's expired. There's fun to be had from being more of an underdog on trackdays. 430 styling is more exciting and aggressive, 410 is more elegant. The question I have now is, will Lotus fit Ohlins to a Sport 410?

[Corsu]

I wonder if Lotus would offer for the new 400/410 MY2018 the front end of the 430 wihtout the carbon blade and a new package option including some features of the 430GT to cut weight. (Brake, Ohlins, etc ...). It would be a shame to not doing that, the factory could earn easy money.

 

[Mister_Tad]

Having taken delivery of a new 400 one week ago...

 

Newsfeed: "Today Lotus unveil a new Evora..."

Me: "Effing typical, thanks Lotus"

Newsfeed: "... Starting at £112,500"

Me:

 

Edited July 21, 2017 by Mister_Tad

[The Pits]

Also so easy for them to earn money offering the 430 remap. Not many would go to Komotec if the factory offered a remap, especially if it preserved the warranty. It's been this way for years, Lotus have shown no interest in making money after the initial sale to date.