Evora GT430

[Snoopy1969]

If I remember right the 410 has (in comparison to the 400) only 1 Piece (instead of 2 - or a thicker one?) of glass at the border of the passenger compartment to the engine compartment - does anbody know if the 430 has the same configuration? (from my understanding that has nothing to do with the Option "Sound insulation"?) 

[NedaSay]

Ok Audi just brought Lotus some backing on the expensive pricing dimension of the GT430 (Euro price)... Audi TT RS with  Audi Sport Performance Parts (aka extra carbon)  is EUR 127K... if a TT - regardless of how ridiculously bonkers it can be - can fetch that much dough than Lotus is free to ask  any ludicrous money. 

[Snoopy1969]

Tt rs dsg with 400 hp starts in Germany at 67 K Euro......just sayin....... (would prefer every NA Evora every day ....also just sayin)

[Ccd]

You can distort the pricing on just about any car if you tick all the options.  The TT RS is hardly cover for Evora pricing.  Much more relevant is Porsche pricing.  And personally, I would not take a NA Evora over the TT RS

[C8RKH]

We're all different. The TT just looks like an upside tea cup from Costa. It might be a damn fine car but it just looks shite in my weary eyes.

Don't even understand why Hairdressers and PA's like them...

[Snoopy1969]

The tt looks like a midengined or rear engined car - but the engine is ......in the front......therefore I cant get along with the styling / concept in general

If I would someone tell in germany I am thinking about replacing an Evora with a tt ........ they would think I have "a problem" ;-)

[C8RKH]

They also seem to be driven by owners that like to hit things

[Ccd]

Using US pricing, you can see that the TT RS and the Evora are in two different price brackets.  The RS starts at $65,000 in the US and the Evora starts at over $90,000.  Given the price difference, I seriously doubt that anyone is cross-shopping the TT RS and the Evora.  Much more likely, they are cross shopping the Evora with a Porsche.

You can look at the TT RS and clearly see it is a front engine car, don't know how you could think otherwise (except you are trying to make the weak argument that the cars are comparable when they are not)

As for the pics, you can find idiots driving (and crashing) every brand.  The TT RS is not immune to that and neither is the Evora

Edited September 16, 2017 by Ccd
Typo

[The Pits]

I'm sure everyone here understands that all car brands have their fair share of idiot drivers. 

Can we get back the GT430 now please?

Surely its everything Lotus wanted the GTE to be, apart from the wider track?

[Ccd]

VERY curious to see how Lotus prices the GT 430 Sport in the USA, given that the Porsche GTS starts at $120,000 here and the GT3 with the Touring Pack starts around $145,000.

[The Pits]

It's GT3 money here so my guess is that the latter is more likely. Many will be shocked by that of course but I'm not sure it's of much consequence when all the GT3s are sold out and Lotus only need to find homes for less than 30 cars.

[Trevsked]

Exactly that, when you fancy a GT3 and are not one of the chosen few then start looking for alternatives it seems there are few to none.

 

Trevor.

[Ccd]

Well economics teaches us that a product is worth what people are willing to pay for it.  If Lotus can find 30 US buyers willing to pay GT3 prices for the 430 Sport, then that is what it is worth.  I'm skeptical, but we will see

[NedaSay]

I really hope Lotus can get the 30 GT430 clients it needs and I also hope that the full allocation of GT 430 Sport get sold in a timely manner...  Lotus does sell to dealers and final customers I do think the Evora GT430 can command this kind of price, remember that the original GTE was anticipated to be priced in the same bracket... Some will say the GT430 is not quite the full fat GTE  but it does come very close... I expect the US version to come in at around $145K and the GT430 Sport somewhere around $130k considering the way the Evora 400 and Sport410 US pricing this would sort of make sense. 

[pickle]

I'm not sure that the GT430 or GT430 sport really is GT3 price though. Speccing up a GT430 sport to my taste was circa £110k. Having just done the same for a GT3, without going mad on anything cosmetic, I was coming in at £130k. Even a specced up GTS was coming in at £116k.

Throw into the mix that there's not exactly a lot of other manual sports cars out there at this level, the relative exclusivity of the GT430 and the potential of a 50/50 finance deal (if this is available) and it looks pretty tempting to me. Granted not everyone will see it this way though.

[NedaSay]

You just stressed a key issue for a few buyers on this side of the pound I believe, right now financing a Lotus is not quite as straight forward and painless as a Porsche. It would be good if Lotus could set up something with the Volvo financing arm... There's been a rumour on this side pretty much since Geely's taken over. I'm pretty sure most dealers would very much like to be able to offer "arguably better" leasing and financing options on  the Evora. Getting a streamlined financial solution will probably help moving cars quickly for dealers. 

[The Pits]

70bhp down on the GT3 and Toyota 'Camry' vs Porsche flat 6 masterpiece will undoubtedly be the main sticking points for most. No one seems to care about the rear engine placement in the Porsche apart from me so we can ignore that one. In a fantasy car that used the best bits of both the GT3's 9000rpm redline is the thing I'd pick first. The rest of the engine second. But I'd much rather have it in the +0 area of the Evora's aluminium tub. Downforce is the obvious win for the GT430, over twice that of the GT3 if the figures are correct. 110kg vs 250kg at around 190mph. Kerbweight, carbon panels, suspension spec, hydraulic steering are all advantage Evora. Styling is whatever floats your boat, I go GT430 personally on that one all day long. The GT430 has much to offer for those who can see beyond the power difference. I'd like to think there are 30 in the US who can. If GT3 was widely available at list price Lotus's chances would be much slimmer. That there will be nearer 3000 people in the US who wanted a GT3 but were told to buy a Macan instead will considerably help!

[farook]

Not wishing to fuel the debate but Pits you need to add in the gearbox into your assessment above, I think that's a fairly significant element.

i also wonder about the comparative 'engineering & design' quality and robustness of the two

[The Pits]

The debate is what we're here for. Fuel away! Gearshift quality is outstanding in the Evora now in my opinion. Obviously I haven't driven either cars yet but going on the last Evora Sport 410 and last Porsche manual there's very little in it. The Porsche's gearshift was stiffer but did feel strong. The Toyota gearbox has limited the Evora's torque but working within that torque limit I'm not sure of the pros and cons of the quality of the box itself providing the shift is good, which it is. There were no issues with the 410 on track. Never missed a gear, never heard a graunch. The proof's in the pudding when it comes to robustness. My Exige proved highly robust during my ownership. Some people's GT3s caught on fire. I wonder how much of this is perceived versus actual? Certainly don't think it's reasonable to assume the Evora will fall to bits and the GT3 will be faultless but of the two most would put money on the GT3 holding together better I grant you. Based on personal experience that few on Porsche forums can offer, I might expect some minor bits of trim to work their way loose over time which would be disappointing to say the least at this price level but would be appalled if something major failed on either car. A bad experience with a troublesome car that couldn't be quickly and permanently sorted would put me off any brand.

[Ccd]

One sticking point is that it may be easier to get a GT3 in the future.  I don't see the point of Porsche offering a touring package on the GT3 if they are going to keep production at the same numbers.  Personally, I think the Touring Package is an indication that Porsche will increase production of the GT3.  Now to what level is anyone's guess.

[The Pits]

GT4 wasn't limited and it didn't make much difference. Demand far outstripped supply, 918 owners given first dibs to make a fast buck, premiums charged waiting list games ensued. Same will apply to the 'touring' model. I'm happy to let them get on with it. GT430 would do me fine.

Lotus have managed to beat the power:weight of the gen 1 991 GT3. Evora GT430 comes in around 330bhp per ton. Both numbers are subject to debate about the actual weight figure used of course. Whatever else about the GT3 no-one would describe it as particularly light. Porsche have made no attempt to reduce weight for the gen 2 GT3 but the power increase puts it at 346bhp per ton. Still, 16bhp difference is a lot better than the on paper 70bhp deficiency. This of course will not make any difference to sales!

Lotus need a GT450 to match the gen 2 GT3 in a straight line, I won't disagree with anyone who thinks it should have at least 450bhp at the asking price. But unless the weight figure is pure fiction, the GT430 should be capable of dishing out some big surprises.

[Mark030358]

6 hours ago, The Pits said:

A bad experience with a troublesome car that couldn't be quickly and permanently sorted would put me off any brand.

And there is the rub. Lotus quickly need to upgrade the after sales support in the unfortunate event your car is off the road for what ever reason i.e. spares parts, technical support, back up field engineering etc. Unfortunately I think this is where they fall down badly, especially now that prices are heading north.

I was off the road for a month waiting for a clutch/fly wheel assembly on my V6S, however it didn't stop me buying another car from them  but for other it just might.

cheers

Mark

[The Pits]

Anyhow. Been photoshopping again.

Burnt Orange

Pewter Grey.

Daytona Blue.

[Bibs]

 

[geartox]

On 8/2/2017 at 19:48, blindside said:

I think Ti does sound slightly different to the stainless back box (which sounds fantastic). It has a hollower more metallic sound, with a little less bass than you get with steel. There is just as much noise at mid range and it sounds manic over 5k rpm. OK it limits track selection, but it's very nice to look at and listen to.

 

 

 

is there any official number concerning the exhaust db output of the GT430 ?