Evora GT430

[scotty435 483]

We all know that Cobwatch posted his comments just to provoke owners of 430s, please don't fall into his trap, it's not a school yard, please let's have a meaningful debate.

[The Pits 4,082 1 Vehicles]

I assumed he was being sarcastic!

[anthonyyule 309]

14 minutes ago, The Pits said:

I assumed he was being sarcastic!

It’s not always easy to tell! I wasn’t biting..... if my response has been deemed as such then folks on here don’t know me that well. My bite is much worse ?

i found the review great.... but confusing. Genuinely - as per my earlier post. But in reality... I don’t care because I own one and it presses all of my buttons (and none of those buttons make me bite!)

[cobwatch 40]

Oh dear...irony, sarcasm, the blog was not meant to be taken at face value! Neither was i intending to provoke. I have not driven a GT3, but i find it hard to believe it has out-Lotused an optimised GT4 based Evora. Galling. 

The Evora is a wonderful car, steers beautifully. And, of course, NOBODY buys a Porsche without those expensive optiions. Having read the review 5 times i was also serious when i suggested EVO played fairly this time. Which only makes it more surprising. The outcome is no surprise...but the manner of it very much is.

[anthonyyule 309]

I do agree Cobwatch that the article was fairer than it could have been. Certainly prior to release of Evo we had all (on this forum) decided what the outcome would be and why. Nobody would have ever guessed in a million years the reason even if they could guess the result. 

 

[cobwatch 40]

Anthony, you have a fantastic car. A legendary Lotus. Drive it, enjoy it. Occasionally wash it!  Jealous, me?...not one bit!

[Babas89 117]

Is someone take care about the comment of the journalist to make there chose?

Especialy for a car like this 430GT where passion is more important than reason (like for all the Lotus)

Edited February 20, 2018 by Babas89

[Bravo73 1,055]

3 hours ago, cobwatch said:

...an optimised GT4 based Evora.

?

Do you really believe that? The GT430 is as ‘GT4 based’ as an S, 400 or 410. ie hardly at all!

[cobwatch 40]

Hardly at all?... the carbon, brakes, suspension and especially the aero are significant. Too much full-on GT4  would completely compromise the Evora on the road. The GT 430 occupies a completely different niche to the 400. But, yes, i have exaggerated, i hold my hand up.

[Bravo73 1,055]

The GT4 doesn’t have any of those things. It doesn’t even have the same tub!

That whole ‘the GT430 is a GT4 car for the road’ was just JMG bs, I’m afraid. 

[Snoopy1969 231 1 Vehicles]

On 19.2.2018 at 20:30, The Pits said:

The part I take issue with is that the conclusions are drawn on the basis of a cold, wet road drive. Ambient temperature was 7 degrees C. The writer would have had a totally different experience in the dry on Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2s.

The inevitable win for the Porsche won't surprise anyone. However the reasons given for the Evora losing the comparison are literally the last things you'd expect.

Totally agree on mentioning the weather conditions - such a comparison does not make sense if it takes place in a weather more or less not suitable for the mich cup tires.

I would like to know how much the cars weight in their more or less " real world"/ as tested configuration. All that theoretical speech on the weight savings is without sense when we do not know the "real" result. 

All 60 gt430 sold? Interesting point, in Germany at least 4 cars advertised.....the wrong description of the GTE is also "remarkable" - sorry but if I woild be a professional journo I should know better.....at least some nice pics

[mik 341]

fwiw i asked JohnB about the conditions. Clicks

[hml_xy 66]

I‘m glad to see these posts and that i am in London tomorrow to grab my copy at the airport.

What i read so far between the lines of all the comments here: Porsche won for (not just) steering feel - the most obvious advantage of the GT430 over any car I have ever driven (including Porsche and McLaren) was the steering feel!

If their judgement was not about a relaxed and comfortable drive, i can not believe that this was an advantage of the GT3. Grip - yes, acceleration - yes. Usability / options - yes. But not „feel“ or „feedback“. 

To comment on why a „german“ has chosen the GT430 over a GT3 (and it was on my list): I like that Lotus is the underdog, you see Porsches everywhere. Also people driving Porsche fall into the same category of people wearing Rolex (pardon to everyone around wearing them...I hope you get the picture  ). Without a doubt every (?) Porsche is an amazingly high quality vehicle and capable sports car - but they don‘t tickle the senses (other than people enjoying the heritage and the „perfectionism“ or how well they hold value). I wanted something that felt special at every speed. And to me a Lotus has the vibe of an analogue racer, a bit like the glorious cars from the late 80s / early 90s. Real drivers cars, imperfect but with tons of soul. Pushing the start button and holding it until the engine fires up instead of using the „binary click“ of modern / others cars for their starter buttons for example. Not a computer telling the engine to start on a on/off signal but „me“ sending volts to the starter motor until the engine fires up... that kind of feeling made me choose the Lotus.

 

Most people won‘t understand unless you really enjoy those small details. Probably similar to wine conoseurs or fans of old school watch making. Emotional instead of rational decision...

[Babas89 117]

Nothing to add hml_xy, that's exactly what I'm thinking 

Never found that feeling on the steering wheel on any other car than a Lotus.

Porsche is a really great car, especialy the GT3, but it's very perfect and that's not what I'm looking for.

Maybe this GT430 is not the fastest, the most powerfull, the most luxury, but when I look at it something happened 

Edited February 20, 2018 by Babas89

[The Pits 4,082 1 Vehicles]

Worth a try @mik but if he drove both cars outside of the tyres operating window he should do more to qualify his findings.

Many elsewhere are openly celebrating Porsche’s victory without questioning anything. No doubt the GT430 is already fast becoming known around the internet as the one with crap steering. Funny though, I reckon Porsche will escape the charge of having worse traction in those conditions. The tempting conspiracy theory would say that the whole thing was engineered to address concerns about Porsche’s EPAS. ‘Beating’ an industry benchmark for hydraulic steering would be a great way of putting them to bed finally. Porsche are more than ruthless enough to stoop to that. However, there was some criticism of the GT3 which is highly unusual in itself so I’ll give John Barker the benefit of the doubt.

I stand by what I originally felt about the GT430. Grip has been prioritised in the pursuit of laptime. The difference between the Sport 410 and GT430 is much like that of the Elise 220 Sprint to the Cup 250. The ‘lesser’ cars might actually be more entertaining on the road by having slightly more accessible limits, due to narrower tyres. They feel a bit more adjustable. The skinnier the front tyres on an Elise, the sweeter they steer. The GT430 just grips, seemingly forever and can feel more aloof at road speeds, as did the Exige V6 Cup before it. With a track focused variant you’re only ever seeing half the picture on a road drive. On a cold, wet road, even less than that.

I still maintain that the finest steering Evoras of all are the S1 cars but the Evora 400 onward cars run them very close. Having recently had a brief back-to-back drive with a 400 (thanks to @DaveC72) I can confirm that it’s steering was absolutely glorious. Fortunately the GT430’s was very similar as you might expect from identical hardware. I think it’s the lateral stiffness and complete lack of body roll that hides the feeling of weight transfer which makes the GT430 feel like it’s not even trying at road speeds. For what it’s worth this is also how a 991.1 GT3 feels on the road too. Like everyone else is just going way too slow. “I’m bored, can we go to a track now?”

If you're racing a Caterham in the wet the first thing you do is remove the anti-roll bars (or fit smaller ones if you have them). A bit of roll will help transfer more weight where you need it, make the car a bit more progressive and also help you feel what the tyres are up to. Given the Evora GT430 offers lots of adjustment you'd think that someone of John Barker's experience might try softening the dampers to see if that helped.

 

[JayEmm 1,270]

I'm very disappointed EVO have returned to poor and slightly dubious journalism. I am fairly sure when the GT430 first appeared in their pages it was a five star car... now it appears to have lost half a star? Very poor.

This article actually reminds me of their recent Aston Martin DB11 V8 review. The entire review told you how the V8 was a better car than the V12... but then it scored a lower result? Almost as if they'd been told it wasn't allowed to be "better" than the V12.

[Bruss 455 1 Vehicles]

I haven't read the article so my thoughts are based on whats been reported on the net. For me the biggest non surprise is that the handling 'feel' of the Porsche has been improved. It's the one key difference that Lotus has always had. Why wouldn't Porsche try and match it?  I am surprised if the 430 was found to be in some way lacking, as I can't see Lotus having lost that feel from the previous S1, and 400 derivatives I have driven. It may just be that the writer was informed that the Porsche ought to be mentioned for its better driving feel? 

Why was I not surprised?  I was lucky enough to drive a gt4 on track recently. It had some suspension mods that made me compare it favourably to my Evora handling. So much so that I could see myself in a relatively cheap Cayman GTS with the same suspension mods. It was that good.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Bruss

[The Pits 4,082 1 Vehicles]

The Porsche's 'superb steering feel' was certainly stressed over and over again, just in case anyone missed the point.

I love the way every other journalist has praised the GT430's steering yet it only takes one guy to knock it and suddenly EPAS is better than hydraulic steering. They're in raptures about the Porsche victory and appalled about the price of the GT430 at the playground yet it's OK for someone to pay £50k over list for a GT3. He's the smart guy, anyone buying a GT430 is a total blinkered idiot. Very weird bunch over there. So angry and bitter about Lotus, they really want to see them fail. Thank goodness we have this place!

 

[BatMobile 409]

I bet Porsche had a technician sorting things out where lotus probably just sent the car. If this is the case then they need to get with it in this regard and ensure the car is always set up best for the road/temp etc.

lotus has no right to even be compared to Porsche with their huge budgets and development programs; they should be absolutely miles ahead. 

the fact it seems the empire has had to defeat the rebel alliance with a spurious claim shows how great our cars actually are! 

I agree with the above post, lotus is a contrarian choice. You buy one as you like to be different and stand out from the herd.

Imagine what will happen when geely/suv money starts to give lotus some real cash to spend....Porsche should be worried.

[pete 1,169]

In 2016 Porsche spent 2.2 billion euro on r and d

[The Pits 4,082 1 Vehicles]

How much of that went on SUV’s?

[hml_xy 66]

Just managed to pick up my copy of evo on my short 12hr trip to London.

After reading the article (and I am by no means mad that our beloved brand „lost“...): When did a car with such a soul- and feedback lacking steering ever get away with so many stars for the rating?

Also interesting that they tested car 1/60 - I thought mine was 1/60?!! ? 

[Bibs 8,947 4 Vehicles]

Carbon Fibre?

 

[Trevsked 724]

Nice meet up with Jonny for small drive and lunch on a pretty much perfect weather day for the time of year.

 

[mik 341]

GT430 are like buses.....