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Evora GT430

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7 minutes ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Surely 10% for the home market was at best pessimistic

Traditionally the UK market is 10-15% of Lotus sales volume. 


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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Once again Lotus show their engineering excellence and then shoot themselves in the foot with their equally abysmal understanding of customer expectations. 

As for residuals, I hope they do well but the Esprit sport 300 was released over 25 years ago. I wouldn't want to wait that long to be able to move a car on. Lotus will never have Porsche residuals so I think we all need to accept that.. Lotus really really need to understand that to survive on the short term they have to take notice of existing customers as well as seek new ones for the future.

So my request is still the same (A) GT430 with a wing and stripped out shell with road number plates for the track- sub 100K, and (B) 430 sport sans wing with every creature comfort you can add in - electric seats, self dipping mirror, decent stereo (including a dab aerial), etc, for the road.

 

Anything else is a compromise - let us build the compromise we want via option packs between A and B.

 

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7 minutes ago, Bibs said:

Traditionally the UK market is 10-15% of Lotus sales volume. 

Does that include USA? Hard to believe that they would only expect to sell 6 of each model in the UK, but 60 of each model in the USA!

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That's worldwide, yes. I'm sure they'd have preferred to sell more GT430's into Europe given the large uplift in price on the mainland compared to the UK. Why the number was so big for the USA, I don't know as I don't think the USA has even been 50% of their market,  


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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31 minutes ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Just wait until Stratton buys up the unused parts in a few years and tries to sell a few more! 

Lol, a few years... a minute after the last one goes out the door more like!!

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 it’s better to have 20+ cars that are sought after than 6 cars that nobody wants.

You're coming from completely the wrong angle here Jonny, that's a salesman talking. I bought a car that I believed/was told would be one of 10 cars. Had they stuck to that I would own a car that there were 10 of and more than 20 people wanted one. As it is I've got a car that anyone can buy so why would they want mine, or yours, now.

Trevor.

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I'll get around to it at some point.

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The main question I:

Is that really important for you to get a limited edition?

I don't care if it's 60, 30 or 100, because I know it will not be easy to be more than 2 at the same place on same Time.

I've always said the new plate with "1 of xx"  is a good opportunity to can produce less or more than planned at the begining

 

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Why be classic when you can be unique

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7 minutes ago, Babas89 said:

I've always said the new plate with "1 of xx"  is a good opportunity to can produce less or more than planned at the begining

 

That's only good if you don't make as many as you had planned (in the sense you can cover over the fact you havent achieved your targets).  No-one will get hung up about it.

However, if you state there is only going to be 'x' amount then you go ahead and make 'y', it will only serve to piss the 'x' people off when they get wind of it... 

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15 minutes ago, Babas89 said:

The main question I:

Is that really important for you to get a limited edition?

I don't care if it's 60, 30 or 100, because I know it will not be easy to be more than 2 at the same place on same Time.

I've always said the new plate with "1 of xx"  is a good opportunity to can produce less or more than planned at the begining

 

I think if you've been told there will be 10 and its part of buying the most expensive Lotus on offer then definitely. Would I buy one now knowing they are unlimited in the UK and more than 20 were out there for a small maker of buyers, I don't know. What I do know is I was lied to and customer relations are now very damaged.

 

Trevor.


I'll get around to it at some point.

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I was told to my face I was buying 1 of six. Hence my hast at placing my deposit. In fact - on this basis I had placed by deposit 20mins after the car was announced (and I was first on the board).

i was pissed when I heard they had increased to 10 and that they would also launch a similar sister model (the sport) with the same numbers. 

Im now beyond worrying about it. There is little to nothing Lotus can ever do to regain the trust which they have lost from me. I’ll enjoy the car - as we all will. And let’s not forget - we WILL enjoy it because it is so amazing. 

But the company should really take heed and do something to thank and repay the loyalty shown by the customers who bought this car.

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Agree with you Anthony, it's not the car I'm out of love with at all.

 

Trevor.


I'll get around to it at some point.

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1 hour ago, anthonyyule said:

In part Trevor I have to agree.

The relationship has definitely soured..... the whole DAB-Gate demonstrated to me their hunger at grabbing more money from the customer (I’m still ££ out of pocket for paying a premium for the now “standard” fit Apple-play stereo - standard if ICE is specced I mean). 

Plus if I decide I want the exhaust valve illuminated button as now fitted as standard I guess I will have a new fight with them to see who has to pay for the purchase and install..... if I bought a GT430 today it would cost me £0.00.

increasing numbers of vehicles and changing the spec on a car-by-car basis for such a low volume special seems to me to be a bit desperate. Even the diffuser has now been changed. I share your view. I love the car and the brand - but I am definitely out of love with the current management and how they treat their (many of whom) very loyal customers. 

I’m not sure the exhaust button is standard the GT430 has been built to comply to worldwide regulations.

Central Lotus are fitting the button and doing the software to suit, for us, not Lotus cars.

Lotus changing the number of UK cars, so you would have preferred Lotus to stay with the original 6 cars, only sell another (figure plucked out of air) 6 world wide, and then what; yes you may have got your wish for a new management team?? Or worse.

We have paid optional extra for the premium spec ICE, as for the comment regarding the rear diffuser; the Lotus brochure like any other manufacturer states “actual specifications may vary”

Yes this is our fifth brand new Lotus in 8 years. We have a lot of respect for some previous management and like to class MJK as a good friend, Jean-Marc came into a ship sinking and pretty quickly. Jean-Marc/Lotus have managed to secure the ship  and (hopefully) get funding for new models and a brighter future!

think I better close this rant before I say something that will upset a few more 

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Darryl & Sue

Proud to drive and own a true British supercar the Evora GT430

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2 hours ago, Trevsked said:

On the one hand it's nice to see the car succeed as its a wonderful vehicle, I haven't found anything that comes close to the driving experience for me, but sadly it feels like the last one I buy due to there being twice the number produced than I was told. A big part for me was buying a low numbers vehicle and while some will come on and say 20 plus cars is incredibly low volume, I'd argue I was told 6 then 10 and bought in at that description, I think I've been fooled into parting with more money on that basis. That's not a nice feeling and Lotus have damaged our relationship forever, but my love of their product.

 

Trevor.

Have to agree with this!!!,  I was one of the 6, and at time of order you had to put 12.5 k in as a deposit, within a week it was 10, now its 20 plus.

Form a super rare car, to a fairly common car within this group at least! (picture of three together on here) would I do it again, truth is NO!

Stunning car to look at, but think I should of stuck with the 380.

 


andy

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My biggest fear in buying any of the 'limited runs' of cars lotus are releasing currently would be getting the bespoke parts for them in the future (GTE syndrome). I'm not talking ten years in the future, I'm talking much sooner, like a year or two after they stopped making them.

I don't know about anyone else but I've completely lost track of the elise and exige range of cars this last 2yrs. They keep tinkering with special editions that have such a wide range of different bodywork and trim. Some have sideskirts, some don't. Some have vents, some don't. Some have winglets, some dont. Some have doo-dah's, and on and on. Then you get the change of design half way through production (gt430 diffuser above for instance).

How many of all these special parts are they going to hold once theyve made however many of them they can sell? Especially when you hear stories of 4-6 month lead times on panels for the 'regular' cars...

Certainly looking at it that way, the more they make, the better off you're likely to be...

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@DarrylV8

 

I think you should say exactly your thoughts and experiences. It is important that we all have a voice whether we all agree or not.

I don't agree in that if I was sold something and then found that I'd been lied to I would be a tad disappointed.

Re the DAB saga. Again if I had been sold something that didn't work I would again be disappointed.  Of course if Lotus had said you also need an aerial BEFORE fitting the upgrade and I had ignored their advice then that would be a different matter.

Re the 430, just from the comments on here it seems that Lotus are taking a parts bin approach to building them. Some have glass, some don't, some have a sport button, some don't, some have one diffuser, others something different. Perhaps Lotus are building many individual 430's. The plaque should always read 'one of one' ?

 

 

 

 

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I thought the "spares" situation was improving now and as for new editions well isn't that how the MX-5 is sold (albeit a much cheaper car) and as for versions and spares - well let's see, there are 24, yes 24, different and distinct model variants on the Porsche UK home page (  https://www.porsche.com/uk/models/911/  ) - and that is just for the 911.

Lotus has lots of model versions = bad.  Porsche does it = good.

Go figure.

However, not to piss anyone off but with 20+ GT430's now in the Uk there is a greater chance in the future that I may be able to own one!  Now, who ordered a red one and when do you think you will be looking to move it on for the 1 of 1 Evora targa 4matic turbo GTS 2 GTR 3 Sport Exclusive Cup 525!  :sofa:

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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The Porsche argument is irrelevant. This is a Lotus forum where 50% of the original 430 buyers are disappointed that they were lied to.

That is what needs to be addressed by Lotus to give confidence to future buyers.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, DarrylV8 said:

I’m not sure the exhaust button is standard the GT430 has been built to comply to worldwide regulations.

Central Lotus are fitting the button and doing the software to suit, for us, not Lotus cars.

Lotus changing the number of UK cars, so you would have preferred Lotus to stay with the original 6 cars, only sell another (figure plucked out of air) 6 world wide, and then what; yes you may have got your wish for a new management team?? Or worse.

We have paid optional extra for the premium spec ICE, as for the comment regarding the rear diffuser; the Lotus brochure like any other manufacturer states “actual specifications may vary”

Yes this is our fifth brand new Lotus in 8 years. We have a lot of respect for some previous management and like to class MJK as a good friend, Jean-Marc came into a ship sinking and pretty quickly. Jean-Marc/Lotus have managed to secure the ship  and (hopefully) get funding for new models and a brighter future!

think I better close this rant before I say something that will upset a few more 

Rant away - I don't think you can win this one ;)

Can I ask (I am being cheeky) if you were required to put down a £12.5K deposit for your car since you have only recently ordered it? I was given a deadline to pay my full deposit as I was made aware that if I didn't act quickly the 6 cars would go elsewhere. 

The exhaust valve isn't important - but the stories and the remedies are inconsistent. Still - Id be surprised if you are paying out of your pocket for this to be done? I'm certain that I will be charged ;)

To clarify the sum I paid for the ICE. As standard the GT430 comes with none. At the time I placed my order there were 2 ICE available. The "standard model with sat-nav and bluetooth for £XX and an enhanced model which came with DAB and Appleplay which cost £XX + £YY. I paid for the enhanced model at an inflated price. Subsequently Lotus have dropped the "standard" model for the Evora and now only offer the enhanced model.... but at the "standard" models price. Enough said. 

If I'm being blunt about limited numbers... then YES... in an ideal world there would have been 6 for the UK and 54 for Europe. OR... if Lotus had gotten their shit together earlier with correct and proper strategic marketing there might have been 10 for the UK and 50 for Europe or 20 for the UK and 40 for Europe. But I would have been told of this at the time of order and the goalposts would not have been moved at a whim after my money had been paid. 

I don't believe such a coherent strategy would have called for a complete change of management - but the current chicken-shed marketing that appears to prevail in Hethel certainly does call marketing strategies into question. Again - feel free to defend, but I'm struggling to see how you can :) :)

I don't think anybody here takes issue with the engineering or with the product. But there are constant gripes with the marketing strategies (limited numbers/ models per country, etc) which highlights a failing at that level within Lotus which needs to be addressed. 

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Good post 👍

 

Trevor.


I'll get around to it at some point.

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The short of it is that they messed up and they should think carefully about managing their customer relationship in particular with the one that have been wronged.

Reality is that Lotus has recently wronged a few of their dealers (selling them cars 1 week before superseeding the model, pushing hard for them to get Evora stocks as it was not selling much pre 430) and they probably prioritize their UK dealers by letting them sell more of the gt430.

Regarding the number of cars sold in the UK, I have a strong suspicion that not all of them are RHD. I heard UK dealers have been allowed to sell lhd at UK prices so you can imagine what happens...

US market for lotus is Just a bit smaller to the UK market but with only one model! They have managed over 200 Evoras in a year in the us so they would have a good shot at selling 50-60 but they would need to sort the overall US which seemed to have struggled recently.

with a GT410 coming, the 430sport didn’t  have a good reason to exist and I doubt it will ever get to 60 so that was a poor choice to upset gt430 owners with those.

Lotus should publicly confirm that the total is 60 and that no more would be sold (hopefully ASAP as it does sound like they may be close) and should give special treatment to the very first owners with a special event for them, factory tour and other gestures (free DAB!, recognitions letter etc) that they deserve and will maker the car have a special history including in the secondary market.

i hope they are getting feedback from those forums and dealers also bring that feedback and suggest gestures.

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You talk about number in UK... but was it official from Lotus?

I've just hear about the 60.

Maybe the 6 is a dealer talk about the estimation of sales.

We just have to register everything ans if we're more than 60, ok Lotus lie


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I think we are all saying broadly the same thing here, so need for any knickers to be twisted or to start turning on each other here. I get that forums are a place people like to vent their frustrations hoping that the factory are reading but we need to see that for what it is.

Porsche residuals are not at all better than Lotus outside of GT models which are being disgracefully manipulated by Stuttgart. Really tiresome to see Porsche held up as some kind of example. Go buy a protest Porsche, see if Lotus or Porsche care. The great irony was that the GT430 was a real opportunity to take a few GT3 customers who were fed up with horrendous treatment by Porsche dealers!

For my own part I’d definitely buy again knowing what I know now. Car is absolutely stunning. As already stated the 6 car thing was a factor in the justification process, totally not into hollow promises, unequivocally lame thing to do but ultra exclusivity wasn’t the big draw for me fortunately. They may as well not bother with limited production cars at all anymore no one will believe them.

Again though everyone seems to think there’s this big marketing department, there really isn’t any kind of strategy at all beyond JMG’s whims. So please, enough of this talk about proper marketing strategies. They need to hire a marketing department first and one that JMG respects and will listen to (no small task).

 

 

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but that's crazy talk Jonny. I work for a super large organisation (Shell) who have probably hundreds of marketing people and I am also self employed (and I have no marketing people other than myself). I have long believed at the very least that Lotus is positioned somewhere between the 2. Now I hear that JMG is pretty much judge-jury for Lotus marketing then I stand by my chicken-shed mentality 😄

In all seriousness....... numbers don't concern me now. Not that I'm driving the car every other day. Its a laughable car.... as in you cant help but giggle when you are in it. OK - so I caught the splitter on a hairpin incline on Monday which I wasn't giggling about.... but otherwise its just brilliant. I agree that the number-plaques are all a bit nonsense now. What was Lotus total build last year? and the breakdown per model was what? Ford probably built more Fiestas every day than Lotus build in a year...so every single one is Limited. but, ahem.... some were supposed to be more Limited than others!

I have another big run planned for the weekend. Cant wait. I actually get giddy about it before I go out in it. I think I once heard someone describe steering as though they were "pouring the car through corners". That's exactly how the GT430 steers. You can almost think it. And the grip.....GRIP... in the dry? hahahahaha. Brilliant. It is a great car.

Shitty company at times. Great car. 

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Just caught up with this thread and I'll cut to the chase. Has anyone taken these issues to Lotus, either directly or via their dealer? Anyone had the discussion with Scott Walker or Graeme Robertson? I know @anthonyyule has given Ian a hard time at Leven (quite rightly) but has anyone had Lotus directly defend their 'strategy'?

Would be interesting to hear of any direct feedback, or is the collective view they would be defending the indefensible?

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