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Well, My Lotus Is History.... - Page 2 - Esprit Chat - The Lotus Forums #ForTheOwners Jump to content


Well, My Lotus Is History....


Paul93Lotus

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Paul - important thing is you're okay, as many times as you replay this through your mind, don't forget no one else got hurt and you went home safe. FWIW I just heard of another Esprit in SoCal that got into an accident today, think I'll leave mine in the garage for a while! Best wishes for a speedy recovery and I'm certain you'll be back on the road in a new Esprit in no time. BTW is that the Valley Circle/Mulholland exit on 101?

Sorry Paul about your car, that car was in great shape. I remember you were realy happy with the car except for the vacume pump.

fmxa who else got into accident?

Guy

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Paul - important thing is you're okay, as many times as you replay this through your mind, don't forget no one else got hurt and you went home safe. FWIW I just heard of another Esprit in SoCal that got into an accident today, think I'll leave mine in the garage for a while! Best wishes for a speedy recovery and I'm certain you'll be back on the road in a new Esprit in no time. BTW is that the Valley Circle/Mulholland exit on 101?

Yes, that was the exit coming south from Malibu / Thousand Oaks area. Familiar with that offramp coming south?

I keep playing it through my mind about what went wrong - either the car or what I did. After the second correction it happened all so fast I didn't have a clue until the impact. I think any other car would have knocked down the street lamp at the speed I hit the post.

Wait till you see pictures of the inside...it will make you freak when you see the way the wheel came into the car....the e brake is buried, and the pedal box is 1/2 of its original size.

Artie, since I still owe on the car I doubt there will be any parting out...the insurance company will likely auction it. I am going to see if I can keep the wing if the price is not stupid...keep it till I either get another car or sell it if I decide to move along.

Edited by Paul93Lotus
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Wow Paul, I am very sorry to see/hear about your wreck. That was a very clean Esprit. Did the boost come on hard? Was this the first time the tail end tried to come around on you. Did you ever spend time driving your Esprit hard?

I know Esprits are not easy to drive. They don't give you much time to react when the tail tries to come around. And the quick steering makes it easy to over correct.

Again sorry to hear. Let me know if you need anything.

Gonzalo

Paul - important thing is you're okay, as many times as you replay this through your mind, don't forget no one else got hurt and you went home safe. FWIW I just heard of another Esprit in SoCal that got into an accident today, think I'll leave mine in the garage for a while! Best wishes for a speedy recovery and I'm certain you'll be back on the road in a new Esprit in no time. BTW is that the Valley Circle/Mulholland exit on 101?

What other Esprit wrecked? V8?

'03.5 Final Edition Esprit ~ 5.7lbs/hp

mildly modded - 430rwhp, 353rwtq

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so sorry for you, glad you are OK which is the main thing, dont know what else to say, just feel for you..

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.

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Very sad to hear of your accident, but glad that you're ok.

When I see something like that, especially with a mid or rear engined car, I typically think of power oversteer or trailing throttle oversteer causing the tail to come around. I would think that if you were rounding the corner at a constant speed and didn't get on the throttle, didn't let up, and didn't hit the brakes (thereby loading the front and making the rear go light), then either you lost traction from something like oil or gas on the street or you blew a tire.

I once spun (not in the Esprit) in a very mild corner due to spilt gasoline on an already wet surface.

I know this is a sad time for you, but no one was seriously hurt and this too will pass.

-Dave

edit: Are those your tire tracks in that dark patch? If so, that patch is huge and may very well have unstabilized the car.

Edited by mr50bmg

All Cows Eat Grass

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Another one for the 'Wrecked Esprit page'! Not keen on updating that page too regularly. :rolleyes:

Glad you weren't seriously hurt and the Esprit did protect you in this instance.

This thread is a reminder of how the Esprit isn't your everyday drive and is a serious machine. Be careful out there!

kato

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Paul,

Only just picked up on this thread. So sorry to see what happened but glad you're ok. It's always sad to see another off the road but the fact that you have no serious injuries in what looks like it could have been worse if the impact was slightly further back, is the main thing.

It looks like where the impact was could be the contributing factor to the steering incursion on the footwell. Hope this doesn't tarnish you enjoyment of the brand and car and hope that the insurance company see the car at the right value.

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

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Paul

Crikey! Those pictures are horrific!

I'm so glad (but frankly amazed) to hear that you walked away without any serious injury. Whatever happened, your beautiful Esprit looks like it absorbed a whole lot of energy.

Riding a motorbike made me realise how stupid the highway builders are - metal drain covers on corners, big and slippery white line patterns at intersections, all that crap. A patch of shiny tar on an off-ramp sounds like a similarly thoughtless bit of work.

Hope you feel better soon. A crash like that would give me nightmares for a long time.

Very best wishes

Ben

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Paul , terrible news, but at least your OK.

When you felt the back end start to come round, did you get right off the gas pedal?

Lift off Oversteer

Possibly, I may have let up on the throttle...It is hard to remember what I was doing with my feet after the fishtail began...I just remember the car reacting very violently to the correction...there were no skid marks at all, so I don't think I had my foot on the brakes at all. I can't understand how there would be no skid marks especially since I spun :D The fishtailing was VERY loud....way over the sound of the stereo.

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Glad to hear you are ok. Cars are just things. Can always be replaced.

I had a similar off a few years ago in my esprit. cost more than 10K to put it right. snapped on a wet corner when the turbo kicked in, steering was extremely heavy and there was no controlling it. OK, my fault for driving too fast, but the Esprit is a beast when the tail steps out. In addition to the turbo kick, once the turbo is boosted, you can't really modulate the power as quickly or finely as you could on a NA engine.

Yours looks a write-off for sure. But those esprits are pretty tough, not sure you would have been better off in a Ferrari :-)

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Paul , terrible news, but at least your OK.

When you felt the back end start to come round, did you get right off the gas pedal?

Lift off Oversteer

Wayne,

My understanding is that lift-off weight shift can be what triggers the rear to come out, but once it is out, my feeling is it's out. Keeping the power on, especially if it's boosting will surely cause it to continue to spin. Taking the power all the way off quickly could maybe cause the lift-off oversteer to worsen the spin, but by then, the car is probably so unsettled and the slip angles so messed up it wouldn't make much difference.

Isn't it best to let off the power gently while steering into the skid?

Anyway, Paul, don't overthink it too much. You won't have an accurate enough memory or any telemetry data. there was probably a number of contributing factors, ie it was an accident!

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Paul,

glad you got off well. Verry sad sight, heartbreaking to see another one in that shape.

Still, have you had a look on the sale list ? There seems to be an awfull lot of parts that could make your car see the road again.

.....

Juat a thought.

Olaf S400 project www.esprits4.de

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And this is what I think upset the handling of the car.....

Very sorry to hear about your accident and hope your ankle makes a rapid recovery.

The accident you had is an absolute classic for Lotus Esprit, or any other mid-engined car that's not set up for the "safe understeer" which is the classic handling trait of virtually all modern road cars.

After I bought my Esprit I took it back to Hethel for a service (they had a service garage in those days) and parked waiting for serious body repair were a number of almost new Esprits. I asked what had happened to them and the explanation given was that new owners got carried away and simply spun their cars to the scene of the accident.

I've only had one experience of serious Esprit fish-tailing; very scary. It's caused by the driver over-correcting a slide which then makes the car snap back the other way. The unfortunate downside of sensitive steering and neutral balance in a mid-engined layout. A severe example was the Lancia Beta Monte Carlo which had a fearsome reputation for going backwards through hedges. Modern cars are usually more forgiving as so many drivers start out on FWD with its characteristic plough-on-understeer before transferring to RWD.

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Paul - really sorry to see that picture.

Don't knock yourself up too much about what you could have done differently - if the car is unsettled quikcly then it can take a lot to stabilize - especially with a lot of weight out back.. often lifting-off does cause more instability.. if the car began to oversteer then likely it got light mid-turn and yes some smooth throttle may have slowed this.. but in a split second this is way harder to do than say. I once tried to correct an MRoadster in the wet and created more problems as I fishtailed and counter steered into a field (I missed heavy objects). A slow unassisted rack does make correction tricky to avoid a tank-slapper or counter spin. I now subscribe to the try to steer where you want to go, stay on a flat throttle: curl toes if power oversteer or ease in some gas if on a fast sweeper; what you do deends on what caused the slide.. but if she keeps going then lock the wheels in the direction you want to go and give her full lock. Hopefully she'll spin in the middle of the road as you stop that pendulum effect. She'll then hopefully spin faster. Again this is all way easier to say than do and most of us have been in similar scrapes.. the tarmac does look horrendous and worth looking at re causes for the crash. Jst before impact always worth crossing arms and taking your hands off the wheel and pedals but again not so easy to do in the short time involved and you risk come chest injury if using a normal harnesses so keeping hands on maybe better. Feel off pedals a good idea but try to keep them on the brake as logn as possible. Spin both feet in - clutch and brake. All by and by now.

If you're looking to pursue then maybe worth gertting a frined with a datalogger (gps g-meter) and go round the same corner in a car and record any changes in the lateral load as you go over the same piece of tarmac. A bit convoluted but jst an idea.

Edited by M Blur

It's alive.. alive!!!..

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I've practiced lift off oversteer many times on GT4 and the Elise which was stupidly controlable - it's a classic issue with a M/R car.

The idea is to keep a mid engine balanced on the throttle in a corner to keep it's idea weight distribution front to back. Acceleration leads to Understeer then as the back breaks traction the rear wheels lose lateral grip and it falls into oversteer - lifting off then shifts weight to the front and you're spinning like a top. Ideally you turn into the skid and ease off but being a high powered turbo the non-linear flow of the engine makes it hard to control - you're now into well advanced driving techniques. If you dont spin out the likelyhood of you having just enough counter steer is slim and then you get the pendulum effect as the back swings the other direction, the Esprit can be a tough car to handle without a doubt.

When an Esprit decides to go, as with my crunch, you have no choice, the back moves soooo quickly and your feet can be thrown off the pedals due to the violent swing of the car. It's incredible feeling, as Alex 'Silverbullet' said it's like some giant foot coming down and kicking the tail end of the car right out - you're just there for the ride.

I've done it plenty of times with the Elise on industrial estate middle of the night, and 180'd it by lifting off, but not in the GT3 even with those wide tyres it scares the crap out of me - only ever had that step out on me once and the way I got it back was to snap the wheel hard into the skid and then centre it in 1 very quick movement which bought it back whilst keeping the accelerator steady.

It has to be an instinct thing - if you think you're probably too late !

As said it's a trait of mid engine cars, esp those with a low centre of enertia as they can change direction very easy.

I have no doubt if I got caught out like it again the result would be another crunch, unless you've had an Esprit go weee-waaa on you it's an incredibly tricky one to explain.

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Wow Paul, just catching up on the whole of this thread. Really glad you are ok although limping a bit. From the pics, judging from the impact, you could have been in alot worse condition than you were. Bound to be a little shaken for a bit while its all still sinking in.

Really sorry to see your Esprit looking like it does and hope the Insurers are quick to respond for you.

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk - that will teach us to keep mouth shut!

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weight transfer in the Esprit can be particuarly hefty due to the rear-mid layout.. and can make for sharper changes in weight bias. The Esprit can dsplay pendulum effects like you get in Porkas... past a certain angle they are veryhard to recover.

such a shame - such an awesome looking car but sure you'll find/create another..

It's alive.. alive!!!..

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