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Telemetry - Performance meters - Video Loggers

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I didn't find a dedicated topic about that.I think it could be interesting to start one :)

Maybe we can include the radio communication, because during coaching session, not always easy to communicate due to the noise :) 

Objectives :
- Measuring driver performance 
- Measuring car performance
- Improving driving skills (of course coaching is the best way - but tools can be used also by/with the coach) during a trackday session
- Improving driving skills after a trackday session
...

I know that we have guys on this forum with aim and racelogic, solutions. Hope they will share their full experience and advices :-)

 

Interesting combo :

- AIM : SoloDL + SamrtyCam + ECU bridge + Race Studio
- Racelogic : VBOx Video HD2 + VBOX Laptimer + Circuit Tools

 

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Of the above: My recomendation for starters clearly is Harrys Laptimer ...  www.gps-laptimer.de ... cheap and super easy to use with a lot of great functions and good analytics already... 

Then, if you really use it, go for either AIM, VBOX or RaceNavigator. They are all pretty good with different pros/cons  ... most Pros I think use the VBox. I went for the AIM, because I wanted full race dash integration of the system ... love it ... 

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I think that if you want only track data to analyse there're plenty of solutions, VBox Sport, Performance Box, Harry's lap timer, etc. etc.

If you want a full display of ECU data on your dashboard, than it's another world, also in terms of pricing. Expect nothing under € 2'000.-

Race-Navigator a new comer in the market is probably currently one of the less costly pro system...

I have the VBox Sport and the Performance Box (this one for 10 years now....), and they work great. Fully iOS compatible for the VBox.

The Aim is an amazing solution but quite expensive, the beauty of it is that you can have the dashboard inserted into your Exige to replace the current instrument display, which is great. You have that in the 3-11.. which unfortunately isn't road legal in switzerland. Otherwise I'd already drive it.....

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As a starter for ten HarrysLapTimer is good before investing in expensive kit.

My word of warning being HLT is useless unless you have an external GPS sensor connected.

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9 minutes ago, alias23 said:

As a starter for ten HarrysLapTimer is good before investing in expensive kit.

My word of warning being HLT is useless unless you have an external GPS sensor connected.

Which one do you use?

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I’ve used them all, started with HLT which is good but does not always work perfectly and therefore not ideal when you get serious. You really need an external GPS for it too because the phone refresh is too slow, I use this:

SkyPro XGPS160 GPS Receiver https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00E65TNYE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_c0-dAbH5GMEG1

For picture quality you probably can’t beat it paired up with a GoPro, however that means a lot of things requiring battery and successful connection to work. 

The key thing is driver training, if that’s what you really want then VBox is the option, the software for analysis is extremely good it’s what we all use racing and all the instructors use. Once you are at a reasonable point a race instructor won’t get in the car with you. It’s all done with th software analysis of footage trackside comparing overlays, etc. 

Therefore you need the cameras, the VBox lite ticks all the boxes, 720p is rather crap but it is enough. The HD2 is a big step up, not GoPro quality and a lot of money but I’d not be without it. I also liked the straight lap timer, but you do miss the video when trying to work out exactly what went on during a lap. 

Download the software if your really interested in using it as a tool and I can send some data if you want I see how it works. 

If you just want something for show/YouTube then stick with HLT and some GoPro. 

There are some VBox Lite and HD2 videos on my YouTube channel if you want to compare. 

Here’s where I put it in the Elise for a change during a sprint:

Normally I’d put the camera on my feet but I could not be bothered for that one off.  Here’s one from th race car at Snetterton qualifying:

Both HD2, here’s the Lite from the year before for compare:

The sound is a little rubbish because of where I put the mic. 

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Agree VBox is best for training this is what I hope to move to in 2018.

BUT it’s a lot of money so would suggest HLT + DUAL XGPS 160 (SKY PRO) and you’ll have a good setup as a starter especially when connected to a GoPro.

The GPS is about £180-200. I am looking to sell mine if anyone’s interested it’s in perfect condition and been excellent for me but as a control and measurement freak I want to move on to the VBox in the new year as I want to dig deeper into the detail.

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I had the same GPS for HLT ... AIM now has an external properly „built in“ ...

I was also very close to moving to the VBox ... very good analytics software (currently the best imho) and more reasonable price wise than others, while still a lot of money if you go for the 2HD system ... in the end wanting a race display (AIM MXs Race) to replace the current dash has won ... the current AIM software is pretty good while not as good as the VBox (Video 2 Video lap by lap and Data simultaneos is possible but a nightmare to get done - VBox there is a breeze) but I have already seen a preview if the new software that will address this and the lacking Apple integration ... 

Here its in action in my car (sorry for the link to the KT channel - this is not meant as advertising, I just dont have the video on my channel anymore ...)

 

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What's great with the Aim is the integrated dash and full info from the ECU...... and the dashboard with shift lights is just great. Remember having had separate shift lights installed in my GT3s at the time..... 

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thank you all for your feedbacks. :thumbup:

For the moment I use HLT and a Gopro. But many problems : gopro does not start as expected, battery challenge, very slow to do the overlay... 

 

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You can export a VBO file from HLT and then load it into Racelogic Circuit Tools (which is a free download: https://www.vboxmotorsport.co.uk/index.php/en/circuit-tools-driver-analysis-software#try-it).

You can then analyse things in a bit more detail. It won't hook up the video files for you, but I think it can be done manually.

I was considering VBOX LapTimer and in particular the Delta Velocity feature that uses two LEDs to help you understand if your entry/exit to a corner is the best you have done so far. Has anyone used this feature?

 

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18 minutes ago, LF1 said:

To get everything with HLT (video, GPS, OBD) to work at the same time and last a session you’d need the planets aligned.

Agree with that, there is always a problem.

Trackday is expensive, even more with a coach. This is why I am looking for something straightforward.  

Funny, I have imported VBO files from HLT to CT and the GPS infos don't seem to be really reliable (I use the GPS of the phone) :o

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Probably because the GPS on phones is only 1hz which means one location per second. And you consider how many get lost. This is why you need an external GPS receiver with at least 10 times that to make it accurate.  

When you consider how much a car will move on track in a second and then consider the odd missed reading...

HLT really is good, I run the GP editon with the external GPS never that worried about the video mind. 

That said all these tools are only useful for chasing the last few tenths which is not really what track days should be about. Nothing will improve driving more than seat time.

Ironically I’ve just been having this discussion with the 56 guys and girls kicking off the 2018 Caterham Academy who’ve virtually no track experience - the the VBox guys were there demonstrating their products.  

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Thanks for the feedback on the LapTimer - I may well treat myself to a Christmas present his year :)

I bought a Garmin Glo to work with HLT - it's about £80 IIRC on Amazon.

WRT their usefulness, I am a relative newbie with track days and I'm trying to understand which are the best lines, how much speed can I carry through a corner, should I sacrifice entry for exit, what g did I pull through a corner, should I change gear before a corner. I find analysing it quite useful and enlightening ATM, but I agree that seat time (and good tuition) is what I need.

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If you want to stick to your iPhone,add an external GPS to your phone, twith the www.bad-elf.com gps dongle fitting the iOS system, it's great... and not too expensive

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12 hours ago, LF1 said:

Download the software if your really interested in using it as a tool and I can send some data if you want I see how it works. 

it could be interesting yes. can you share some data (including inputs from the ECU : throttling, brake pressure...) in order to test the software ?

thank you

 

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I don’t have throttle and brake inputs because it’s against our regulations. Also you don’t actually need it as it’s very clear from the graphs when and how much of each you are using. Not to mention the video when a camera is pointed at your feet. 

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https://bad-elf.com/pages/be-gps-1008-detail

Plug and play solution for your smartphone.

It's an iOS plug in GPS and you can even charge your phone through it. Very convenient in a car.

This improves on the 1 Hz of the iPhone, up to 10 times.

The VBox Sport is 20 Hz.

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14 hours ago, Swiss380Cup said:

https://www.race-technology.com/gb/racing

Add this one, I had one in my 996 GT3 CS.... it worked great, though a little complicated at the time to set up..... Doesn't look easier now

+1 We have Video4 and DL1 in the Caterham. The deciding factor for me was open logging of the CAN bus. Racelogic at the time had you paying per channel. The systems are very configurable and the Analysis software very powerful, but a bit old school in some ways. Certainly worth looking at though. As is Race Keeper. I haven't used one, but I have heard good things about them.

I think Tom raises the very valid point that the analytics one come into their own once you're down to the last few tenths. Before that a good instructor's coaching is all the insight you need to progress. Having said that, the logs can be very interesting in themselves, especially for getting an insight on the effects of changing elements of your driving style, or seeing how it changes with fatigue etc. They can also help keep an eye on the machinery if you have enough channels / the right sensors.

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4 hours ago, MartynB said:

+1 We have Video4 and DL1 in the Caterham. The deciding factor for me was open logging of the CAN bus. Racelogic at the time had you paying per channel. The systems are very configurable and the Analysis software very powerful, but a bit old school in some ways. Certainly worth looking at though. As is Race Keeper. I haven't used one, but I have heard good things about them.

I think Tom raises the very valid point that the analytics one come into their own once you're down to the last few tenths. Before that a good instructor's coaching is all the insight you need to progress. Having said that, the logs can be very interesting in themselves, especially for getting an insight on the effects of changing elements of your driving style, or seeing how it changes with fatigue etc. They can also help keep an eye on the machinery if you have enough channels / the right sensors.

+2 ….. totally agree about having a system that lets you keep an eye on the machinery.  

I'm a fan of the AiM setup as I've had several years of experience playing with it. The software can be "glitchy" at times.

 I like the fact that in addition to being able to download all the data from my ECU and driving info (lap times, theoretical best, detailed  sector analysis, etc. -- love looking at squiggly lines)  ;) ,   I can also have whatever engine data I want displayed on my video w/o the need to spend any time on video production or do the download from my AiM data logger.

A couple of screen shots from the video  made by the SmartyCam HD…..

 

 

Smarty template-V6.png

June oil temp-- 2016-06-12 at 9.24.16 AM.png

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So for both the AIM and RaceLogic users this is my simple requirements please let me know if available:

- Must be super easy to have video and data as one file. I just can’t be dealing with a video and data file and needing any faffing with sync. Needs to be plug and play.

- Side by side lap/video/data comparison

- Pick all the best split times and replay back so you can stitch together (in your head) what’s the optimal lap.

- MacBook compatible software 

I’m certain this is all achievable with RaceLogic but is it with AIM and if so with which setup?

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