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Maxi_z

Exige V6 gearbox oil for track

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Hi

I would like to know what could be the recommended oil for track use on the exige 380 cup

I would say that there are two potential problem when using this gearbox heavily, temperature after some laps and syncros that could tend to become less efficient.

On my older exige cup 260 I tried some competition gearbox oil with friction addictive but after some time when warm there was a crunchy second gear sometimes as I think it made the syncros too slippery so even if the gearchange itself was better

it was not suited at all for that application.

I think that the toyota EA60 gerbox on the v6 is much better but still it s weak points could be the same.

On the track after a few laps the gear shifting is sometimes less smooth and gearx could be slightly harder to shift.

I would think that the redline MT 90 could be the right oil but would like to know what people is using and also I don t know if it s ok for the quaife differential.

Is there any DIY oil change topic or pictures somewhere?

 

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I would have thought with the Exige being a track focused car from Lotus, that whatever oil they specify to run as standard would have been the correct oil?

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Not really, it is a road car at the end of the day. Lotus will use whatever they can get from Petronas (or whichever supplier is favorite at the time). Upgrading to a decent oil for track use where temperatures get much higher is a very good idea.

Try Redline MT90 or Motul Gear 300. Gear 300 is ok for LSD, not sure on MT90.

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Does the original V6 Cup manual recommend a different gearbox oil than the other V6s?

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No, not as far as I can see, but it does recommend changing very 2000km - I think it would depend on your road vs track miles. I change mine every 3 track days and/or 2000 or so miles. Easy and cheap to do.

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That would be good enough for me. 

To the OP - The only other option that I would consider is to contact one of the teams who run Cup Rs in the Lotus Cup series & find out what oil they use. 

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Most of those Cup R's have the Xtrac sequential box - not our manual box. I imagine the oil requirements are different.

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No doubt for an Xtrac. But I’m pretty sure that some of the cars are running standard gearboxes. 

FWIW, my Evora (same gearbox, obviously) has got different oil in it, thanks to one of the Lotus Cup teams. Unfortunately, I can’t remember the brand or type that they put in. :blush:

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I would guess it needs either a GL4 or GL5 type of oil and probably 75w-90. What does it specify in the manual? 

Assuming it is compatible I would try either Redline 75w-90 GL4 or GL5 depending on what the transmission calls for or Millers Nanodrive 75w-90. All of these can be used in the transmission and diff. Do not use the "LS" one from Millers as that is for Limited Slips only in the diff.

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-1020-red-line-synthetic-manual-transmission-90-mt90-75w-90-gl4.aspx

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-1016-red-line-synthetic-gear-oil-75w-90-gl5.aspx

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-1017-red-line-synthetic-gear-oil-75w-90ns-gl5-non-limited-slip.aspx

OR

Millers Nanodrive stuff is really nice and is GL4/GL5 compatible (I use this currently).

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-74217-millers-oils-ee-75w90-nanodrive-high-performance-synthetic-gear-oil.aspx

OR if you want a competition synthetic then the Millers Nanodrive competition stuff:

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-115244-millers-oils-crx-75w-90-nt-competition-full-synthetic-transmission-oil-2017.aspx

 

Having said all of that, do not buy an oil with a friction additive or a "Shock Proof" one as your transmission isn't designed for that. 

AND, the issues you describe sound like the fluid itself is getting too hot and breaking down causing issues with shifting. Changing the oil might help a bit but the best way to fix this problem is simple. Add a transmission cooler. They aren't expensive and are really easy to install. Run an oil line from the transmission to the cooler on the front of the car which you can mount on the radiator (probably next to the A/C radiator which is probably attached to the coolant radiator anyway), and then run an oil line back to the transmission. You can do the same for the diff if you want. 

https://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/oil-coolers-accessories

Choose the one that you like the most and make sure to get the right amount of hose and the right fittings. It's a 30-45 minute job if you follow a generic How-To online. 

Edited by cib24

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7 hours ago, 550superfast said:

Motul Gear 300

I always had good experience with all the Motul fluids (the only exception in terms of preferences is Castrol SRF), including Gear300. :thumbup:

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On November 19, 2017 at 15:28, Maxi_z said:

Hi

I would like to know what could be the recommended oil for track use on the exige 380 cup

I would say that there are two potential problem when using this gearbox heavily, temperature after some laps and syncros that could tend to become less efficient.

On my older exige cup 260 I tried some competition gearbox oil with friction addictive but after some time when warm there was a crunchy second gear sometimes as I think it made the syncros too slippery so even if the gearchange itself was better

it was not suited at all for that application.

I think that the toyota EA60 gerbox on the v6 is much better but still it s weak points could be the same.

On the track after a few laps the gear shifting is sometimes less smooth and gearx could be slightly harder to shift.

I would think that the redline MT 90 could be the right oil but would like to know what people is using and also I don t know if it s ok for the quaife differential.

Is there any DIY oil change topic or pictures somewhere?

 

@Maxi_z  -- Can't be of specific help with regard to the Evora/S3 Exige transmission, but I also have (and still do) run a combination of MT90 with 1/2 litre of GM Synchromesh (for increased synchro bite and as a preventative measure for synchro wear) in my 2-11 (C60-61 trans with plate-type LSD) for many years with good success.  I do change the trans fluid often …..never had a synchro/gear failure (***knock on wood***).  My local race team that supports Evora GTN's and Elise race cars in Lotus Cup  likes the Motul Gear 300 for non-LSD cars and Motul Gear 300LS for LSD cars.  

As for the sequential in the CupR, X-trac recommended that I use Motul Gear 300LS.

Photo below of the GM product …..

 

s-l640.jpg.ed03970d97201b3b8b6c24fe2933891a.jpg

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I was also thinking that most would recommend Motul or Redline and I would agree with that

I m sure there are many other quality oils but those two seem to always make a good difference and are well known

I ordered some Redline MT 90 and I got confirmation from Redline that It should be ok for the Toyota v6 gearbox and ok to use with the quaife differential

I read some posts about thet gm synchromesh do you have more details about the product what is originally used for and how did they find out that it would be good to mix to gearbox oil on a Lotus

Anyone knows the oil quantity for a gearbox oil change on the exige v6 manual gearbox with oil cooler and if some bolts washers or gaskets got to be replaced?

 

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2 hours ago, Maxi_z said:

I read some posts about thet gm synchromesh do you have more details about the product what is originally used for and how did they find out that it would be good to mix to gearbox oil on a Lotus

 

 

 

@Maxi_z -- I believe GM Synchromesh-Friction Modified was originally made by Penzoil for GM and was used by GM in their earlier model Corvettes to deal with "balky" shifting issues and customer complaints.  We (in the Lotus world) back in 2007 were experiencing some premature grinding when going into 2nd gear, whether on quick upshifts or downshifts.  Did some research and found that the S2000 crowd (and Acura peeps) had similar "grinding" issues and they discovered that the GM product remedied their problem.  Google GM synchromesh and you should find links to various Japanese car forums where this product has been discussed. 

So we tried it in an 2007 Exige S and low and behold, it totally eliminated the synchro grind.  Initially, the elixir recipe was 1 quart of GM Synchromesh and the balance MT90  (total for the S2 Exige/Elise gearbox was 2.3 litres).  Interestingly enough some Lotus aftermarket vendors even started selling this concoction as a package.   Later we decided to go with 1/2 quart of the GM product and the balance with MT90.  

I've been using it since 2007 in my Lotus track cars (Cup255, 2-Elevens) even before experiencing any 'grinding" issues on a prophylactic basis,and I have never had any synchro/gear issues with the C60/61 gearboxes.  Of course, my experiences are totally based upon anecdotal evidence. YMMV, so use at your own risk.  I also would change my gear oil quite often on my track-only Loti … cost of parts is minimal and I did my own labor.  I felt it was good insurance against premature gearbox failure.

 

Hope this helps …. you can't go wrong with Motul Gear 300LS either. ;)

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Really  interesting read thanks a lot

I also had that 2nd gear grinding on my old exige 260 cup just before selling it to the dealer in part exchange

It was right after they put some new oil in the gearbox with some racing addictive that was in fact making initially the shift better but probably was too slippery for synchros and after the first trackday it started to grind especially when warm

and it was not doing it all the time.

The Redline MT90 is alreday supposed to be better than other oils for making synchro work correctly so it seems that the gm synchromesh in it should make it even more effective about synchro work.

Any downsides compared to only MT90 you would think?

Would you suggest to first use only MT 90 to see how it works and then use the synchromesh with it or go straight to some synchromesh mixed?

Thanks

 

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The only real downside to MT-90 that I have experienced in my other cars is that it really doesn't like being cold. Your transmission will be a bit notchier and put up more of a fight until the fluid warms up.

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3 hours ago, cib24 said:

The only real downside to MT-90 that I have experienced in my other cars is that it really doesn't like being cold

It is very similar with Gear300 - needs to be warmed up before proper use.

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I was reading on internet about the viscosity differences and there is a noticeable change between a 75w80 or 75w90

I was also a bit undecided between the Redline MTL and the MT90 as the gearbox is a sometimes a little notchy when cold but also a few times hard to shift on the track when too warm

Maybe as I m using the car on track the MT 90 is better suited and it s easier to be gentle when on street at lower speed than on track

The gm synchromesh seems to be also available from other brands than gm and that the redline MTL it s supposed to be one of the gm synchromesh replacements so is there something specially good about the gm product or would it be similar to put some redline mtl mixed to the mt90?

 

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Hmm...wouldn't know. I switched from Redline MT90 to Milllers Nanodrive 75w90 in my car after using Redline for quite a while in a few different cars. I just wanted to try something different and was hoping for better cold performance. I can say that the Millers is definitely better in the cold but it's not a miraculous change in that all of a sudden my gearbox is happy to work with cold fluid, it's just less grindy and notchy than it was with the MT90. And when it heats up it seems to be just as good as the MT90. I have to replace my fluid again in spring and I'm not sure what I will go with this time but looking at the specs the Millers Nanodrive oil has nicer technical specs than the Motul Gear 300, if only just. 

Run one of these fluids and see if it solves your issue. If it doesn't the next logical solution is installing a transmission cooler.

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13 hours ago, Maxi_z said:

Really  interesting read thanks a lot

I also had that 2nd gear grinding on my old exige 260 cup just before selling it to the dealer in part exchange

It was right after they put some new oil in the gearbox with some racing addictive that was in fact making initially the shift better but probably was too slippery for synchros and after the first trackday it started to grind especially when warm

and it was not doing it all the time.

The Redline MT90 is alreday supposed to be better than other oils for making synchro work correctly so it seems that the gm synchromesh in it should make it even more effective about synchro work.

Any downsides compared to only MT90 you would think?

Would you suggest to first use only MT 90 to see how it works and then use the synchromesh with it or go straight to some synchromesh mixed?

Thanks

 

Yes, I would give MT90 a try w/o adding some GM to the mix.  Do you feel any "roughness" when doing down shifts to 2nd or 3rd gear now?  

The combo/concoction has made the C60 trans in the 2zz models shift like butter.    It's hard to tell if you will see an improvement over just trying MT90 ….. either way I think you will benefit from the change.

 

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I have asked myself the same question recently and considered a gearbox oil cooler after having read some of the Evora/Exige threads which made me realize where the gear shifting problems comes from on track days. Then I talked to the local Mobil 1 distributor, who is heavily involved in racing. He put his bet on 75W-140 oil based on the temperatures reported on this forum. The drawback is off course the extreme viscosity when cold and the higher fuel consumption.

Anyhow, if you look on the viscosity plot below, you can see that shifting from the Lotus approved Heavy Duty (Yes, truck transmission oil) Havoline 75W-80 to a normal high quality 75W-90 you get the same properties at 115 C, as you get at 90 C with the original oil. If you move to the two mentioned Motul and Red Line oils, you can extend that operation to 120 C. However, if you run the gearbox at 130-140 C, you should go for the 75W-140 oil.

The key to a good compromise is definitely a high Viscosity Index, which means a more flat curve, so that you don't get that extremely thick oil when you start the car. In that respect, the Motul 75W-90 is amazing. I have never tried it, but it is rare with a VI in the range of 220 and the graph indicates it will behave as the original Havoline oil at start up and still be the thickest 75W-90 oil at high temperatures.

Please note that I only refer to the viscosity. What I can see is that Lotus changed the recommendation from semi-synthetic to fully synthetic from the Evora/S in 2103 to the Evora 400, then you will at least prolong the service life of an oil operated at such high temperatures.

Gear oil viscosities.jpg

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48 minutes ago, #84 said:

The key to a good compromise is definitely a high Viscosity Index, which means a more flat curve, so that you don't get that extremely thick oil when you start the car. In that respect, the Motul 75W-90 is amazing. I have never tried it, but it is rare with a VI in the range of 220 and the graph indicates it will behave as the original Havoline oil at start up and still be the thickest 75W-90 oil at high temperatures.

 

As said in the Evora topic about @chylld's IPS, I trust in Motul synth oils, and I also experimented the Gear 300 75W90 in my Elise S2 few years ago (and in Porsches as well)... within 200 kms from the oil change, gear change was noticeably better and smoother ! I won't put anything else than 300V oils in my engines and full synth Motul oil in gearboxes ... 

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