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Can a CupR be converted to Road Legal? - V6 Exige Chat - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
alias23

Can a CupR be converted to Road Legal?

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As the title suggests, what is it that stops a CupR being road legal, is it possible to convert a CupR to be road legal, and if so what would be involved?

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i doubt the Cup R has approval to be driven on UK roads and I would say that Lotus did not apply for approval either.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval

Probably an expensive venture to do so as well and probably not worth it for the individual.

 

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2 hours ago, alias23 said:

As the title suggests, what is it that stops a CupR being road legal, is it possible to convert a CupR to be road legal, and if so what would be involved?

Yes by using an IVA test

Will need some parts removing to get through the test

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I've done IVA on my LHD Evo9. It was not really excessively challenging or expensive.

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All things are possible given time/money/desire, but you wouldn't want to be running the Xtrac gearbox and clutch on the road.  I'm sure @Jack can confirm that the clutch is "a bit challenging".

Dave

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7 hours ago, Hangar 111 said:

All things are possible given time/money/desire, but you wouldn't want to be running the Xtrac gearbox and clutch on the road.  I'm sure @Jack can confirm that the clutch is "a bit challenging".

Dave

Yes, as usual, Dave is correct.  The clutch in the Xtrac is tiny.

Even more so than the clutch ordeal of standing starts/stop-and-go traffic, sequentials will not be happy doing street driving; and as result, your maintenance costs will increase significantly.

With a sequential, the sweet spot for up-shifts requires a certain amount of torque in order to not use the clutch.  Also, down-shifts need to occur within certain parameters to avoid unnecessary wear on the transmission internals.  A sequential is not the same as a paddle-shifting twin-clutch, which is basically an automatic albeit a good one. ;)

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11 minutes ago, Jack said:

 A sequential is not the same as a paddle-shifting twin-clutch, which is basically an automatic albeit a good one. ;)

Completely with you on the rest, and indeed the first part of this sentence. Have no idea what you mean by the twin clutch being basically an automatic though. Care to elaborate? As in the clutch control is done automatically via electro-hydraulics? I mean that gives you behavior like an auto, but implemented in a completely (and utterly) different way.

Dual clutch boxes make a lot of sense, but tend to be a bit hard to package. Autos are just plain weird! :lol:

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32 minutes ago, Jack said:

your maintenance costs will increase significantly.

Once per season of racing mileage is painful enough!  And that's if you can get any help from Xtrac - right now they don't seem too interested in helping us.

Dave

Edited by Hangar 111

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26 minutes ago, MartynB said:

Completely with you on the rest, and indeed the first part of this sentence. Have no idea what you mean by the twin clutch being basically an automatic though. Care to elaborate? As in the clutch control is done automatically via electro-hydraulics? I mean that gives you behavior like an auto, but implemented in a completely (and utterly) different way.

Dual clutch boxes make a lot of sense, but tend to be a bit hard to package. Autos are just plain weird! :lol:

I think Jack means from a 'fit and forget' and daily usability type of perspective

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1 hour ago, MartynB said:

Have no idea what you mean by the twin clutch being basically an automatic though. Care to elaborate? 

In my world, if a car only has 2 pedals, then it is an automatic. 

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5 hours ago, MartynB said:

Completely with you on the rest, and indeed the first part of this sentence. Have no idea what you mean by the twin clutch being basically an automatic though. Care to elaborate? As in the clutch control is done automatically via electro-hydraulics? I mean that gives you behavior like an auto, but implemented in a completely (and utterly) different way.

Dual clutch boxes make a lot of sense, but tend to be a bit hard to package. Autos are just plain weird! :lol:

For me, I consider a dual-clutch (I've owned cars with DSG and PDK versions) to be automatics w/o the torque converter, albeit more sophisticated auto -boxes.  And, they are very good.

While I consider the  BMW SMG and Ferrari F1 transmissions of yore (like those found in my V10 M5 and 430) to be manual boxes where the clutch is operated by electro-hydraulic actuators.  By the way, those transmissions functioned terribly when used in "auto-mode", unlike the current batch of dual-clutch transmissions.

In any event, a sequential is a different animal all together, whether it uses paddles or a push/pull shift lever.   Clearly "auto-blip" and "flat-shift" capability with a sequential is controlled to a certain extent by a computer (TCU), but the driver's inputs dictate how well these functions perform during track usage.

But, I can see your point and I understand that a twin or dual clutch also has sophisticated electro-hydraulic modules, as does, for that matter, the 10-speed automatic in my tow vehicle .... a Ford F150. :)

However most articles I've seen discussing the operation of a dual-clutch transmission define it as an automatic ....sort of like this:

"A dual-clutch transmission (DCT) (sometimes referred to as a twin-clutch transmission or double-clutch transmission) is a type of automatic transmission or automated automotive transmission. It uses two separateclutches[1] for odd and even gear sets. It can fundamentally be described as two separate manual transmissions with their respective clutches contained within one housing, and working as one unit.[2][3] Although usually operated in a fully automatic mode, many also have the ability to allow the driver to manually shift gears in semi-automatic mode,[1] albeit still using the transmission's electrohydraulics."

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@Bravo73: or , it can be that :P! (I prefer to do it by myself, as an auto owner, before anyone else does !)

minikart-voiture-a-pedales-pour-enfants-

Edited by French Frie

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In case anyone might be interested and assuming this does not violate Forum rules,  this thread about a brave soul installing a VW 2.0 turbo motor with DSG transmission into his 2010 Exige is a good read ….. 

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f157/exige-vw-2-0-tsi-dsg-conversion-build-399546/

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@Jack I see your logic now. I agree, the behavior is quite similar to a slush box even though there is no torque converter. I think of them rather as two manual boxes with interleaved ratios, because they have synchromeshed gear sets and sliding selectors the same as a H pattern box. Autos use crazy epicyclic (planetary) gearing, rather like a powerdrill, but with loads of clutches to do the selections. Too weird!

Sequentials are basically the same as H pattern boxes, but driven off cylindrical cams that actuate the selectors in sequence. The biggest difference really is that they don't use synchromesh, just straight dog to dog engagement. That's why they are so challenging for "utility driving", and why without a good chunk of drivetrain automation (auto blip and flat shift cutting) they require a significant skill from the driver.

That VAG DSG swap thread is fascinating. Thanks for the link

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On 20.12.2017 at 23:20, Jack said:

In case anyone might be interested and assuming this does not violate Forum rules,  this thread about a brave soul installing a VW 2.0 turbo motor with DSG transmission into his 2010 Exige is a good read ….. 

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f157/exige-vw-2-0-tsi-dsg-conversion-build-399546/

Komo-tec did a few of these conversons: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4hpmb1s9ej27xfb/0393766001338283332.bmp?dl=0

However, as Daniel told me the DSG didn't mate well with the handling, downshifts were too hard so that the car tended to brak tracion in all but the best conditions. 

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