free hit
counters
The 430 was being tested in 2015? - V6 Exige Chat - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
alias23

The 430 was being tested in 2015?

Recommended Posts

Folks may have seen this interesting post on FB earlier today... basically this former engineer at Lotus is suggesting he was testing the development of the 430 back in 2015.

Im curious as to how much truth lies in the post as to be honest I can’t actually imagine Lotus being sophisticated enough to think 2-3 years in advance!

Then on the other hand it kind of makes me frustrated if it is true...BB585C56-71B3-43C6-B05A-410BA4C68777.thumb.png.734302edb7ceeff0d338a0b238f4b287.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

In a recent interview with JMG discussing the 430 Cup with one of the big car magazines he said they could have added a torque biasing differential but it would have added another 12 months to the cars development. I thought it an odd comment....but maybe not! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems pretty harsh Imran, like Lotus can't win either way.

Ross is a member here and no longer with Lotus (Jaguar I think), we can definitely rule out this idea that he might be fabricating anything, and to what end anyway? He's a very nice, talented bloke and in my experience very straight talking. Genuine 'car guy' through and through too.

I was impressed and reassured by the thoroughness of the test personally. Presumably they were testing the 430 engine at the time which of course ended up in the Evora first. They clearly weren't testing the Cup 430 aero parts.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair reading it over maybe a touch harsh, I did try and find an 'edit' button but had no luck.

However you do see a lot of things posted on the web sometimes that I do think it occasionally needs validating. It does still frustrate me that these developments where happening at the same time that Lotus was preaching to the market that an evora engined exige wouldn't be happening and if you want the ultimate buy a 380 or 380Cup. As I write this it really does dawn on me that actually the Lotus brand does mean quite a bit too me and I do want it to succeed but it feels as though it needs a proper shake up and reflection over its antics over the past 24 months. 

Hopefully if they are testing 2 years in advance, then hopefully the ultimate ultimate 460Cup with an LSD will be announced in 2018 ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They needed to sell 380's at the time not 430's so you can understand surely the spin?  How many would have postponed a 380 buy at the time when sales were critical?

Porsche does it. Apple does it etc and everyone swoons. Lotus does it and....

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m not sure about the spin nor the source of misinformation. The only people I’ve spoken to at Lotus have said that they can’t talk about future projects and have left it at that. There’s a long standing culture of secrecy up there, due at least in part because of the consultancy work for other car makers. A reputation for being leaky would soon bring all that to an end. In the internet age it only takes one dealer or cynical punter to say something and suddenly it’s attributed to Lotus.

However we can hold JMG to account for what he’s said in interviews. The most recent statement relating to the Cup 430 was that it will be the most extreme Exige will for ‘at least 18 months’ according to CAR magazine. Time will tell but that’s the only official comment about it, the rest is speculation.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Porsche does it. 

Its the reason I left the brand for Lotus. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Pits said:

I’m not sure about the spin nor the source of misinformation. The only people I’ve spoken to at Lotus have said that they can’t talk about future projects and have left it at that. There’s a long standing culture of secrecy up there, due at least in part because of the consultancy work for other car makers. A reputation for being leaky would soon bring all that to an end. In the internet age it only takes one dealer or cynical punter to say something and suddenly it’s attributed to Lotus.

However we can hold JMG to account for what he’s said in interviews. The most recent statement relating to the Cup 430 was that it will be the most extreme Exige will for ‘at least 18 months’ according to CAR magazine. Time will tell but that’s the only official comment about it, the rest is speculation.

They said to me that they have no intention of bringing out a faster Exige for a long time now.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, C8RKH said:

They needed to sell 380's at the time not 430's so you can understand surely the spin?  How many would have postponed a 380 buy at the time when sales were critical?

Me. I would 110% have had one, wouldn't have thought twice. 

I won't ever buy another new Lotus again, once bitten twice shy.

cheers

Mark

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol. You started nothing mate at all! Lol.

Whenever you buy a great fantastic new toy you need to remember that the manufacturer has been working on a newer shinier one but it doesn't mean yours is no less great and fantastic when the new one comes out.

If the issue is depreciation, well, every new car practically loses a chunk when you drive it out the door. If you don't like losing it don't buy new.

Nothing here though unique to Lotus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As per my previous post, my intention was not to cause any offense. (Sorry Ross if you felt heat in me posting)

I was shocked to see such development back in 2015.

The point of the original post, albeit as said on another previous post I admitted it could have been written with a better tone, was that Lotus really need to rethink how they communicate to the market and same the dealers that represent them...

For example instead of saying when asked by prospective buyers as they put down their hard earned cash ... ‘oh no the 380 is the fastest possible and forget the idea of the Evora engine’ they should probably just say ‘well you never know’ at least this way folks don’t feel slightly cheated to which there is plenty of comments on other threads that many do... it also helps add a little mystery to the whole future development. But when they say no it’s not going to happen they are setting a market expectation.

I do disagree that realising so many models and variations in such a short period of time is normal in the auto market. Yes other manufacturers realise different models and variations but none at the speed and frequency of Lotus!

I’m sure many will disagree with me entirely and others agree with where I’m coming from... either way it just shows we are all very passionate about the brand.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Id like to say thanks to Ross for posting his memories of his time at lotus. Obviously Imran had no way to tell if he was genuine as there are a lot of dreamers on facebook so now we all know its genuine, no harm done. Im glad lotus take testing seriously and i have no doubt there is some testing happening now for whatever car is replacing the 430. I suppose the annoying part is when you ask people at the factory specifically if they will ever put the chargecooled engine in it and they deny that it will ever happen and its not possible, only to find out they already had it in testing.

I don't mind lotus bringing out new models that are faster and "better" than my original V6S. I think the main issue people have is that from 2012 to 2015 we had the V6S for everyone and the cup for track addicts. Then from 2015 to 2017 we had club racer, sport 350, cup 360 (with old gear shifter etc), Cup 360 (with new gear shifter etc) Hethel edition, sport 380, cup 380, cup 430, and maybe another I forgot about with each one seemingly superseding the other. Its also a lot of different models considering they only produce circa 300 exiges per year.

We all know the 400/410 is going to replace the 380 next year anyway so then we should have the base 350, mid range 400 and range topping 430. So long as they leave it at that until its final year of production when they should release the run out special editions,  we will all forget about the messy past 2 years and fall back in love with the brand. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, alias23 said:

I’m sure many will disagree with me entirely and others agree with where I’m coming from

I agree with you Imran...

25 minutes ago, Crouchy said:

we will all forget about the messy past 2 years

Nope, I won't. 

I won't be buying another new lotus, lost my business for good.

Anyway, no more from me on this subject.

Original post was fine as was the reply, no issue for me.

cheers

Mark

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Mark030358 said:

Nope, I won't. 

I won't be buying another new lotus, lost my business for good.

Anyway, no more from me on this subject.

Original post was fine as was the reply, no issue for me.

cheers

Mark

 

I understand your pain, I nearly bought a sport 380 with all the carbon and light weight options, then soon after the cup 380 was released and i was even more tempted by that and I very nearly pulled the trigger but they were allegedly sold out (only to dealers not customers) by the time i made my mind up and now the 430 has been released  the constant changes to the model lineup have made me loose interest.. Im too scared in case they release the new latest and greatest next week so i can 100% understand how upset you must be.

On the other hand you do have to bear in mind though that yes maybe you don't have the latest and greatest exige but that was always going to happen at some point and the car you have is exactly what you ordered and were happy to pay for at the time. Its also a stunning car to look at and if my little old V6S is anything to go by your 380 must be awesome to drive so enjoy what you have and when its time to change it see what appeals, just dont rule out an entire brand just because they went through a period of releasing new models quicker than you wanted them to.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Crouchy Yes, its an awesome car, love it to bits. It will be getting a few upgrades, lights, bit more carbon inside and an engine upgrade in the summer :) 

cheers

Mark 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In all fairness the speed of model updates has nothing whatsoever to do with Ross's post and has been discussed a number of times elsewhere. Seems like the latest stick to beat Lotus with and we should all remember that a number of people who have no intention of ever buying a Lotus have made it their business to stir up the issue for reasons that continue to escape me.

So that leaves the issue of 'Lotus' claiming they wouldn't do a chargecooled Exige all the while Ross was in Italy. 

We need to be straight about the sources of this information. If you haven't heard it directly from someone at Lotus then it's hearsay. If anyone can dig up some quotes from JMG to this effect then that's fair enough. Hearing it from a dealer or reading it on the internet just isn't reasonable grounds for attributing it to Lotus. At no point did I hear from anyone at Lotus that they were never going to do a chargecooled Exige. I asked a few dealers about when one was coming out and the only reply was 'what chargecooled Exige?' from one and 'I'm sure they will eventually but we have no idea when' was from another. We have all strongly suspected on here ever since the Evora 400 was launched that there would be a chargecooled Exige at some point, the only surprise is that it's taken this long and that it would start with the 430 motor. Not many people could have bought an Exige 380 believing that they'd never do a chargecooled car. I passed on the Exige Cup 380, much as I love the way it looks, simply because I believed a chargecooled car was coming and said as much on here at the time and several times since.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, The Pits said:

If you haven't heard it directly from someone at Lotus then it's hearsay. 

I did personally ask about the chargecooled exige last time i was at the factory in April (the week after they launched the cup 380) and was told by 2 separate people that it would not happen. Scott even referenced all the speculation online and said it was nonsense and despite what people on the forums were saying the chargecooled exige was not and could not be made with the current platform as it didnt fit. Obviously i was being lied to by the head of sales as he would have been well aware that the very vehicle we were discussing was probably parked in a building not 100 metres away.

 

In reality im not that bothered anyway, the cup 430 is amazing but it is too expensive for me, at that sort of money if i trade mine in next year i will be putting in the extra £30k and getting a mclaren or i may keep the exige as a track toy, make a few choice mods and buy a nicer daily.

 

Either way as I said in my first post Im glad lotus are doing decent testing  and I fully expect there to be a 450/500hp version out there somewhere testing how far the engine can be pushed within OEM constraints, and lets hope it leads to even better cars in years to come. Who knows maybe there is one out there using a shortened evora chassis, low mounted 500hp engine, even lighter body panels and entirely new gearbox.

Edited by Crouchy
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lotus have been doing what they need to do to keep afloat and battle through to apparent profit for the first time ever. It’s like over the last 3 years they have packed around a decades worth of updates into this short space of time. It’s unlike anything else in the industry really. I get why some customers are fed up at being gazumped by the factory within weeks but that’s life. I’d like to think the next entirely new lotus line up will be a lot further down the development road and “sorted” upon release so that the rate of new updates will be less frequent. with this lotus could afford to be more transparent with their dealers who at the moment are kept on their toes with lack of “heads up” on new models meanwhile they read all about the latest and greatest Exige on the internet like the rest of us. One particular dealer I spoke to ordered a couple of new Elise’s. Part way through the build lotus announced a new Elise with the Gucci exposed gear linkage so the dealer was left with two new cars in the showroom with the old gear linkage that wasn’t desirable any more.. Not catastrophic but annoying.

Id love a 430 Cup and at that level of performance it would see me satisfied for the rest of my driving days. For me it would be a keeper no matter what new Exige came out. I have issue with the price and lack of torque biasing diff but that’s for another thread...

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lotus have the right to silence but to mislead anyone is definitely crossing the line and totally unnecessary. Also not my experience despite many failed attempts to winkle some information out of them but I can’t defend intentionally misleading anyone. Another reason to keep the dealers better informed, they are largely kept in the dark at the moment.

However I think we’re all old and wise enough to not believe everything on the internet even if people claim to have heard it direct from the manufacturer.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, The Pits said:

We're all old and wise enough to not believe everything on the internet even if people claim to have heard it direct from the manufacturer.

Is Crouchy's account one to believe or not then?

You initially question the source of the referred to information, then someone comes along with a plausible account so you then take your scepticism to another level and ask readers to not believe everything we are told, even claims which include manufacturer's comment. Such comments from you sound incredibly disingenuous. Very typical modus operandi for this sort of situation.

Edited by cbaileyuk
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Happy Christmas to you too!

Read my previous post. Then have a think about how yours comes across.

Feel free to get in touch by private mail about any personal beef or conspiracy theories you may have but this is not the place to discuss it.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's nothing to do with conspiracy theories. And certainly not a 'beef' issue that needs dealing with private email. Your previous (public) post asks us to question claims from people ("even if people claim to have heard it direct from the manufacturer"). You are asking us to question people that make these claims so I am asking you if Crouchy's claim is one I need to question. I didn't publicise that thinking, you did so my question is public in response.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.


×