Evora GT410 Sport launched

[PAR]

1 hour ago, JayEmm said:

I think the point there though is there was a schedule, and a predictable one. Apple do exactly the same. That's good business, from their perspective.

I believe people's issue with the recent Lotus launches has been a totally inconsistent release strategy 

I agree that a schedule would be a better option. Yearly updates would be more manageable.

i see a lot of debate here about the release strategy but the short of it is that they release cars a lot faster than they sell them at the moment so it is a bit pointless. Last 6 months of sales in Europe of the evora has been non meaningful. Truth being told the 410 has mostly been sold to dealers rather than clients and then they get sold at a discount at a later stage On that basis, they need to think of the dealers and if you have annual release then it is easy to order a demo early in the year minimising the chance to be stuck with it when the new model arrives. Biggest isssue to seek cars is the difficulty to see demos and with this random schedule, buying a demo is bad business for dealers so they spend their time trying to sell outdated cars rather than selling the latest products.

 

Note: based on published European and U.K. Sales, evora sales were down 50% last year despite the flurry of models

 

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by PAR
Adding note

[Julian73]

21 hours ago, The Pits said:

430 has different cam timing too so it's not just a simple boost increase. Komotec can take any of the chargecooled engines to over 470bhp without difficulty for those out prepared to take a chance with their gearbox and warranty if they still have one.

Physical profile or just cam timing angles?  My old BOE tune on the 2012 changed cam timing.

[Julian73]

7 hours ago, PAR said:

Note: based on published European and U.K. Sales, evora sales were down 50% last year despite the flurry of models

 

 

an annual release chile for updated models is a bit far fetched fro a small manufacture, however Lotus has been relating updates every few months now.  This can impact sales and has US buyers nervous because what is ordered now could be obsolete by the time one touches the car.  Just a comment from the 1st US order of the Sport 410.  By time of my receipt I was already lusting over the GT430, prior to break-in we had the GT430 and now the Sport 410 has been replaced by the GT410 Sport .. my car is not even 5 months old, actually less than 3 from getting the build bugs out.

[Colin P]

9 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Best post on the forum for ages. Thanks @Gadzooks. Sums up why I would have a 410.

And why I wouldn't.  The 400 is the car for me until or unless a road spec 410 is equitable price wise. 

[Bibs]

11 hours ago, PAR said:

Note: based on published European and U.K. Sales, evora sales were down 50% last year despite the flurry of models

Published? Where? I'd be interested to know where you found this out please.

[PAR]

http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/lotus/lotus-evora/

This shows European sales so probably about half the world sales in average. I sometime wonder if Lotus is struggling to report probably when we look at the details of what was published in this year.

Monthly and annual sales figures for the Lotus Evora in Europe.

 

	Lotus Evora 2014	Lotus Evora 2015	Lotus Evora 2016	Lotus Evora 2017
January	8	6	15	12
February	5	12	20	8
March	9	24	14	19
April	4	14	14	15
May	3	10	19	20
June	13	17	11	16
July	13	18	11	9
August	18	9	42	8
September	6	10	19	2
October	8	27	13	2
November	8	15	11	1
December	3	14	11

 

	Lotus Evora
2016	200
2015	176
2014	98
2013	158
2012	152
2011	370
2010	342
2009	166

[MrP_]

42 minutes ago, Bibs said:

Published? Where? I'd be interested to know where you found this out please.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/all-vehicles-veh01#table-veh0120

As above these are the official stats that they are derived from - obviously slight variations if cars are written off etc, but if we are debating a handful of cars you get a strong idea ok UK volumes.

This does not cover all export markets, so if the truth in Lotus now being a big exporter is true they may have plenty of cars going out the door that way. 

If there are official stats that go against this from Lotus I would be keen to hear, but they are hard to find

[Bibs]

@PAR, some countries in the EU are yet to publish their 2017 figures, this might explain the discrepancy you're seeing for last year. 

[blindside]

5 hours ago, PAR said:

This shows European sales so probably about half the world sales in average. I sometime wonder if Lotus is struggling to report probably when we look at the details of what was published in this year.

Interesting numbers, which provide some good context to the debate here. Thanks for sharing.

16 hours ago, PAR said:

Truth being told the 410 has mostly been sold to dealers rather than clients and then they get sold at a discount at a later stage On that basis, they need to think of the dealers and if you have annual release then it is easy to order a demo early in the year minimising the chance to be stuck with it when the new model arrives. Biggest isssue to seek cars is the difficulty to see demos and with this random schedule, buying a demo is bad business for dealers so they spend their time trying to sell outdated cars rather than selling the latest products.

Agree with your assessment. Not sure how the margins can stack up for the authorised dealers if they are not selling a reasonable number of the 'newest' new cars. The direct implication if you are a potential Lotus buyer is what ever you do hold off, bide your time because buying any model brand new makes no sense financially. Better to pick up a heavily discounted 'old' model that is close to your personal budget & preference. With full knowledge that dealers will probably be very keen to offload just to break even.

[Arregueti]

This is an interesting discussion and relates also to the thread on the strategy for launch of new models or lack thereof. Since my example below refers to the 410 I will post it here.

In my view, you need to add the following to the equation for prospective European buyers and, specially, dealers:

I will take myself as an example. The new GT 410 (+2) did capture my attention, so I had a look at the price list attached in two columns to the press release and did run some very quick numbers in my head. When you apply the current exchange rate and exclude therefore the exchange rate factor (and you should given that Lotus forces their European dealers to buy in Euro), European buyers (be it private buyers or dealers) seem to be asked to pay a mark up of around 15-20% compared to UK buyers, both for the car and the options...just for crossing the Channel.

That does not even take into account the fact that the gap is potentially bigger when you include the currency fluctuation. If I was looking at actually buying the same car in the UK, the gap would be huge! Much more so than for other car brands when you do the same exercise at comparable price positions. I did this very exercise with an Elise Sport 220 and a BMW M2 some weeks ago, as I was considering buying a new car.

I am still wondering how the dealers are supposed to make that work financially in an already very limited market. And then you have to add that some cars are refreshed by the time the previous versions are just delivered or still freshly placed in the showrooms.

I guess Lotus does know this and still sticks with it, but it must be specially tough for European dealers in an already very competitive market... I struggle to follow the logic, I must admit.

This is not a rant, by the way. This is simply an attempt to explain why sales are fading this side of the Channel...

[Bibs]

I'm pretty sure that sales in France, Italy and Switzerland were up something like 15% last year. 

[geartox]

This GT410 is beautiful. But I am lost with so many new models in few weeks.

 

[PAR]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/m.news.autoplus.fr/Automobile-Ventes-Immatriculation-Utilitaire-Palmares-1523340.amp.html

 

Sales in France were a very respectable 162 cars, which is a 5% decline from the year before which was a very strong performance (+58) so overall a good year for lotus.

Not sure about the Evora, the exige made the top 30 of coupes with 66 cars but the Evora did not.

[Black Forest Power]

Adding a puzzle piece for Germany I can provide following market retrospective based on data collected from the Kraftfahrt-Bundesamt   www.kba.de

Year         new-registered Lotus’        (included Elises)

2017                   199                                    (73)

2016                   151                                    (55)

2015                   142                                    (56)

2014                   115                                    (46)

2013                     72                                     (33)

2012                     56                                     (41)

2011                     84                                     (38)

2010                   160                                     (84)

2009                   107                                     (65)

2008                   102                                      (75)

 

A more detailed breakdown concerning Evora and Exige does KBA not provide.

Well, despite ‘our nagging’ about new model launch strategy and if we like it or not I think the figures support JMG’s policy and show he is not off track at all.

And watch out when GB, D and F together will no longer stand for my estimate of 40% of Lotus production due to Chinese, US and other markets. We will find ourselves in a far less relevant position as we German customers must realize with our German car manufacturers selling 80% of their vehicles somewhere else in the world - majority of customers is king (may be better Queen in this forum?).

On the other hand the figures above exactly trace the bad effects in years 2011-2013 - trust is a very shy venison!

[Breeze]

I rather like the GT410 Sport. I,ve never been sold on the styling of the 400, I much prefer the look, inside and out of my 2015 sport racer. I don't want or need a track car, I want a comfortable GT that moves on when asked. This is he first Lotus I might consider changing mine in for. I really like the new front and back treatment. 

[Breeze]

On 17/01/2018 at 18:39, Bibs said:

I'm pretty sure that sales in France, Italy and Switzerland were up something like 15% last year. 

I would guess that that is due in large part to the efforts of Marco Codega, the Lotus business development manager for Southern Europe. He has been instrumental in the opening of a lot of new dealers in this part of Europe. The biggest problem with selling the Evora in Italy, is not the lack of interest in the car, but the enormous cost of road tax and insurance here. It's truly eye watering. Also, the moment someone registers a car of this sort, the Guardia di Finanza will start an investigation into you financial affairs. Lotus / Geeley really do need to make some usable finance / leasing / long term hire options available as do other luxury car makers, that way the car is not actually yours, therefore no case to answer. 

[Breeze]

On 15/01/2018 at 15:36, bosshog said:

For me, the whole point of the Evora was its a GT car, i.e. air con, stereo , nice comfortable seats, +2, etc, otherwise I'd just get an Exige or Elise. The 410 is lightweight due to ripping out all the bits that make it a GT car. Nice carbon fibre, but thats its only +ve. So its 10K more expensive for a lesser of a GT car in my eyes. I suppose other people think the same. I'm sure its a lovely drive, but so is a Elise (more so IMO) at a 50% of the price.

 

 

I have to say I agree with this. I bought my 2015 Evora S Sr because it was a fully optioned GT at an inclusive price, unlike my previous 365 Who S1 Elise, which was frankly became too hard core for regular road use with age! . While any Lotus forum will have a lot of track oriented enthusiasts, I don't think they are representative of the public at large. As above, the vast majority of people who can afford a car at this price will be of a certain age, will only ever use the car on the road and will expect a certain level of equipment as standard. The current Lotus trend of upping the price, stripping the car to its bare bones to add 'lightness' and a bit of performance, then charging large amounts of money to put back all the equipment that one would expect in the first place. The idea of an Evora without air-con is laughable, and not fitting an ICE system, that event the most basic of mass produced cars have, is simply being cheap.. Lotus might be able to convince a wannabe race driver to pay more for less, but I'm afraid I think it simply looks unattractive to most, and will not attract many new people to the Lotus brand.

But, I really like the new front and rear styling, it seems much more of a logical development of the more coherent lines of the S1 Evora. I was never that keen on the more aggressive style of the 400, it seemed to me that the front and back were from a completely different school of art to the bit separating them. Nice job Lotus, I hope the new bumpers make it onto all Evora models. . 

[jonnyboy]

Well the Sport 410 was the one to tempt me into a new Lotus having being in a Cayman for the last couple of years. Many people (myself included) decry the so far fruitless chase up market that Lotus seem to have pursued but when you actually find yourself shopping in this market the 400/410 is right for it. The 400 is a much more exciting car than a 718 Cayman and over 3 years the depreciation will probably be similar and you can squeeze small children in the back. I was looking at GT cars prior to deciding on a 410 but new ones are unobtainable unless you buy 3 loss leading cars from the dealer first and then you are paying over list for a car with 20k and out of warranty so at almost half the price a new Lotus makes a lot of sense. Lotus certainly have a solid product in the Evora its just not there in the crosshairs of buyers. 

Lotus have needlessly confused consumers with the endless stream of special editions and new variants and it not only serves to confuse none Lotus people that want to engage with the brand its also a kick in the balls to anyone that has invested in a new car. The fiasco of the 220 and 250 cup sums this up very well. Of course going back to a more regular model cycle would be ideal but selling 1700 cars a year wont provide much money to reinvest in 3 models. JMG has done a great job but all the models desperately need replacing and some kind of marketing strategy paying for in order to move the brand forward. Hopefully Geely will see some potential and invest accordingly but I wouldnt see this as inevitable sadly. 

[PaulCP]

Jon, you'll be a hero for some on here with those comments in the first para, particularly coming from someone who is turning from "the other size." The one thing that gripes me with motoring press reviews of P cars is that they are always comparing list prices but never tell you that you can't order a P car at that price.

Words in second para are also true but it does boil down to the level of available investment, which hopefully will increase in the not too distant future

 

[The Pits]

Geely wouldn't have invested without believing in the potential of Lotus but I don't believe a single Renminbi has reached Hethel to date. No doubt the focus for Geely is all about the next gen cars and how they can share Volvo hardware. I would imagine JMG is presenting business cases for each new model to them at a furious pace currently which will hopefully slow down the frenzy of launches. Part of it could have been to attract the investment but I am surprised that the pace of tweeking cars didn't seem to slow up after the Geely deal was announced. Perhaps we're just seeing the time delay between signing off new models and big top level events.

Still, I hope the remaining 410s get snapped up quickly now. Too many sat in dealers for too long. They're cracking cars to drive and deserve to have sold more strongly. If more people had driven them, I'm sure they would have. The hard part is getting on the consideration list of people that are indifferent (at best) about the Lotus brand.

[jonnyboy]

Dont forget that Geely didn't buy Lotus it came free with a bunch of other stuff. They have been in control for a while now with no completely firm plan. Wouldnt surprise me if Lotus was sold on again TBH. 

 

[Bibs]

1 hour ago, jonnyboy said:

Wouldnt surprise me if Lotus was sold on again TBH. 

I'd be hugely surprised if that happened. 

[scotty435]

Geely brought 51 percent off Lotus because they wanted full ownership, they did not have to or indeed need to buy it at all, they have only 49 percent ownership of Proton so in my eyes they wanted one more than the other and did 18months of due diligence into the company, so I am sure they knew what they where buying when they purchased and insisted having the majority share in the company, so selling the company i am sure not in there minds and why should it be?

[Barrykearley]

11 hours ago, jonnyboy said:

its also a kick in the balls to anyone that has invested in a new car. The fiasco of the 220 and 250 cup sums this up very well.

A new car isn’t an investment - even Hmrc class a vehicle as wasting asset. 

At some point someone will always be dissatisfied as they have bought a car just prior to a new facelift being released - that’s just the way it is

[jonnyboy]

Well no it isnt. If you buy a 2 year old Porsche you know you have 5 years until it properly becomes the "old" one and you can go in eyes wide open. 

By investment I dont mean purely financial if you are buying into Lotus at 80 grand its not a sensible financial decision in many ways but you are investing emotionally in the purchase and pledging some kind of allegiance to the brand. Superseding of course is part of the deal but after 3 months? Lotus are diluting confidence in the brand by the constant meddling. Money thats been spent designing a new set of stickers would be better spent raising brand awareness.